External View [A definitive discussion]

[Harbinger]

I would not care at all.
At the moment the Rift and Track ir uses have far move advantage over others than any outside view could give.

Anyway this new one sounds like it might be outside the gameplay completely.
Maybe it will not be available in open or even in solo, just a demo mode like the training tutorials.

Already confirmed to be available in all game modes and maneuvered in the same way as your ship. You can't pilot the debug camera at the same time as your ship, whilst using it your ship will be vulnerable.

See the summary of clarifications from Michael Brookes here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12464&p=1848279&viewfull=1#post1848279

 

[Skuli]

Congratulations - looks like the arcade crowd won.

Done with this game.

*slow clap*

That's fine. Mr. Picard was 10x the captain you were, and he thinks this is awesome.

 

[ArakAtak]

Congratulations - looks like the arcade crowd won.

Done with this game.

*slow clap*

Your place must be pretty boring. No mirrors, cameras or photos of anything. Is living life in first person the only reality you can accept?


arcadey - pah - utter tosh, I want to see my 10 pound paint job!

Actually I want a kill cam that can replay the last 10 seconds of whatever I was doing when I died. Sometimes it is quite a mystery as to exactly what happened.
Even better would be a kill cam of anyone I manage to destroy so I can savour it from all angles (while drifting vulnerable or maybe only while safely docked, Monday morning football style) - OK that might be a bit Hollywood but so what - it's our grand space opera

 

[Kzak]

Also, this camera-feature appeals to the vanity of the players! And they will buy more skins for their ships so they will look good in the screenshots. Win-win for everyone.

 

[Uvelius Sång]

Great stuff! Looking forward to it. And I like the approach to exclude 3rd person combat (I have watched these 3rd person view space fights in Star Wars Old Republic and they looked ... pathetic ... to me, especially compared to the fine mechanics behind E Ds dogfighting engine, though I must say I really only saw some footage).

As for the minor issues, I am sure FD will take care about these in time after the release. As we can see, they take (most) user issues seriously or even have them in their pipeline already.

 

[amigacooke]

That's fine. Mr. Picard was 10x the captain you were, and he thinks this is awesome.

Quite so, no-one could fly a conference table the way Captain Picard could.

 

[jabokai]

A clarification from Michael on a couple of things -

Yes you can see paintjobs and decals. No pilots for now.

From another post which I can't seem to find: You cannot control your ship while in debug camera.

Michael

 

[almostpilot]

Time to acquire some paintjobs!!!!!

 

[Vasea Azure]

Good. Thank you FD.

 

[NeilF]

Already confirmed to be available in all game modes and maneuvered in the same way as your ship. You can't pilot the debug camera at the same time as your ship, whilst using it your ship will be vulnerable.

See the summary of clarifications from Michael Brookes here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12464&p=1848279&viewfull=1#post1848279

Sorry, "You can't pilot the debug camera at the same time as your ship," isn't confirmed yet as far as I'm aware...


EDIT:
My mistake! I see Michael has stated that's the case! - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118907&page=32&p=1850785#post1850785

That's a shame, but still a great overall +ve move

 

[DAYLEET]

Great, now let me pay to change the colors on basic paintjobs. Use MechWarrior Online as reference, they have the best paint customization around. You can actually customize yourself instead of being another "metoo" with the exact same paintjob as everyone else.

You pay for patterns for each ship and then you buy colors separately and the colors can be used as often as you want but you must pay for every pattern everytime you change it(unless you have a more expensive option where you own the patter as well).

 

[Kiblams]

Great, now let me pay to change the colors on basic paintjobs. Use MechWarrior Online as reference, they have the best paint customization around. You can actually customize yourself instead of being another "metoo" with the exact same paintjob as everyone else.

You pay for patterns for each ship and then you buy colors separately and the colors can be used as often as you want but you must pay for every pattern everytime you change it(unless you have a more expensive option where you own the patter as well).

I have been wanting this for soooo long! They would make so much money selling paint colours and patterns, and most of it would come from me alone!

 

[Heracles]

Time to acquire some paintjobs!!!!!

Yes, my thoughts as well.

I suppose it's better than nothing. We have had all sorts of external views, fly by's, Tower cams and positionable view cams in Flight Simulator/ DCS for years!

I would like a Station Docking Camera that pans with your ship, from "docking permission granted" to the pad. Add a zoom facility as well! Now that would satisfy the perfect landing viewers! Not to mention capture all those near missed and tightening moments!!

But I can not see how a full screen external views could possibly be of benefit or remotely confer any "advantage" in combat. If anyone can explain that premise I would be obliged!

 

[Deyn]

Finally! Thanks for listening Frontier. I don't understand the rant about the "debug" cam, really. Would they have named it free float 3rd person cam, would people rant, also?

It by all means is what most people asked for. A way to see your ship or the environment, without giving you a combat advantage...

I am happy to see this coming! It was long overdue...

So where are these amazing roadster flame style paintjobs again?

 

[Tox Laximus]

There are a bunch of ways to actually implement external views that are sort of possible.

1. Bend light.
2. Use sensors to generate a 3D view.
3. Use cameras from space station and friendly craft.
4. Bounce light off of shields.

I'm not a fan of the drone method, they could get lost or even shot.

 

[RingoD123]

Well in my opinion all they have done is insert a dev/debug tool into the game and called it a feature.
This removes any emergent story (which currently is the only type of story in the game) that players were creating for themselves just so people can take selfies.
For instance, I seen one guy on the forums who was exploring looking for beautiful nebulas, sun rises etc. Once found he would make a post asking for any commander flying ship "x" to contact him and meet him there, as the sceneries colour etc lends itself to a certain ship, possibly even with a certain skin.
Another example is that I saved for ages to buy a Clipper worthy of exploring, simply because its window above your head allows for completely HUD and cockpitless pictures, as far as I was concerned it was a "tool" that any "professional" photographer would aspire to.
FD could have even made a Galnet news story about how the Clipper was the "Pro Photographers" ship of choice etc.
But hey, at least the masses get to take selfies now! well played FD....
Im not saying I don't want an external camera feature at all, I really do!
I just want it done in a way that fits into the game, make it a module you need to buy, make them feel like another tool for "photographers", an actual in game item that can add to the emergent story telling, not some ethereal dev tool that is simply plugged in to placate the masses and actually take away "emergent gameplay/storytelling" from people who had already found ways to do this.
I understand that my worries may be mis-placed and future versions of this tool may well end up being what I was hoping for, but going off how we have seen systems being implemented so far and left as finished while they move on to more new content, it looks more and more likely that these half baked systems wont ever be improved.

 

[jabokai]

FD could have even made a Galnet news story about how the Clipper was the "Pro Photographers" ship of choice etc.

That would just be silly - you can hold a digicam up to any old window to take a picture without borders even in a tiny-windowed aeroplane! And you'd have a Galnet news story about how a clipper can be used to take holiday snaps without intrusive canopy struts?

I appreciate the concern over the "debug" name and how it might be left that way, but it really is better than the nothing we have now, and better than advertising a multi-million credit ship as a camera accessory.

 

[NeoRacer]

Cmon, thats taking it a bit too far. Its a game, its another way to view the game content. You can call it whatever you want but thats the reality When you go for a peepee you can pretend you bought the toilet module if you want, have at it..

I just want it done in a way that fits into the game, make it a module you need to buy, make them feel like another tool for "photographers", an actual in game item that can add to the emergent story telling, not some ethereal dev tool that is simply plugged in to placate the masses and actually take away "emergent gameplay/storytelling" from people who had already found ways to do this.

 

[helionmusic]

I'd say at least unlocked camera in the outfitting section

 

[NeilF]

Well in my opinion all they have done is insert a dev/debug tool into the game and called it a feature.
This removes any emergent story (which currently is the only type of story in the game) that players were creating for themselves just so people can take selfies.
For instance, I seen one guy on the forums who was exploring looking for beautiful nebulas, sun rises etc. Once found he would make a post asking for any commander flying ship "x" to contact him and meet him there, as the sceneries colour etc lends itself to a certain ship, possibly even with a certain skin.
Another example is that I saved for ages to buy a Clipper worthy of exploring, simply because its window above your head allows for completely HUD and cockpitless pictures, as far as I was concerned it was a "tool" that any "professional" photographer would aspire to.
FD could have even made a Galnet news story about how the Clipper was the "Pro Photographers" ship of choice etc.
But hey, at least the masses get to take selfies now! well played FD....
Im not saying I don't want an external camera feature at all, I really do!
I just want it done in a way that fits into the game, make it a module you need to buy, make them feel like another tool for "photographers", an actual in game item that can add to the emergent story telling, not some ethereal dev tool that is simply plugged in to placate the masses and actually take away "emergent gameplay/storytelling" from people who had already found ways to do this.
I understand that my worries may be mis-placed and future versions of this tool may well end up being what I was hoping for, but going off how we have seen systems being implemented so far and left as finished while they move on to more new content, it looks more and more likely that these half baked systems wont ever be improved.

...as you say, it might form the basis of an external drone in the future. ie: If it proves successful, then FD may simply dress it up...?

In the meantime it will make a lot of players happy who simply want to be able to get a view of their ships and take cockpit/HUDless screenshots.


If we took your approach - all or nothing? - then we'd have no such feature until FD had time to fully implement it (properly)? ie: So an external drone was fully rendered ingame, and even viewable by other players? Which could have been some considerable development time.