Its all fairly easy to solve. Once you deploy your guns your "stuck" in the cockpit. People who feel that realism is broken when they are able to switch to an outside view in a space game with an atmospheric flight model will just have to control the urge to switch outside or just unbind they key.
External View [A definitive discussion]
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I do not think that you necessarily need an external view...
I do not think that you necessarily need an external view, although it could be a selling point for younger MMO-damaged people.
If you can turn your piece of scrap at the accessories shop or see it from time to time during sequences, that will be enough.
For me other Questions are more important...
Not too much Yellow.
Fines instead Death penalties for misbehavior in starports!
What about elements from FFE??
Only shooting and trade, will not be enough.
I want to explore this Universe
I do not think that you necessarily need an external view, although it could be a selling point for younger MMO-damaged people.
If you can turn your piece of scrap at the accessories shop or see it from time to time during sequences, that will be enough.
For me other Questions are more important...
Not too much Yellow.
Fines instead Death penalties for misbehavior in starports!
What about elements from FFE??
Only shooting and trade, will not be enough.
I want to explore this Universe
If we take that as black and white, it would mean a FOV advantage when ever guns are not deployed. As such you could deploy/undeploy your guns just to flick in/out of external view.
We don't want that sort of contrived gameplay do we?
psyron
Banned
Since this seems to be the major thread on this topic i also would like to mention my idea of having a camera view screen replacing the scanner like this:
For example the bottom camera view showing the ground below your ship to help landing:
The bottom camera view helping to pick up a satellite/container with a robotic arm below your ship:
External drone camera view of own ship (ship view taken from "Dejay"):
The reasons why i would prefer the camera view to replace the scanner:
- It's located in the center of the cockpit -> more favorable.
- Player has to abstain from the scanner while using the camera view. Therefore using it while in combat would be a disadvantage, not an advantage.
- I also would like that the drone is quite slow, therfore you can't fly at high speed while having your drone streaming it's video signal to your ship. The drone can only be used by slow speed or it will vanish in space.
Edit:
Sorry for the repost, but it's maybe better to discuss this topic on this main thread.
For example the bottom camera view showing the ground below your ship to help landing:
The bottom camera view helping to pick up a satellite/container with a robotic arm below your ship:
External drone camera view of own ship (ship view taken from "Dejay"):
The reasons why i would prefer the camera view to replace the scanner:
- It's located in the center of the cockpit -> more favorable.
- Player has to abstain from the scanner while using the camera view. Therefore using it while in combat would be a disadvantage, not an advantage.
- I also would like that the drone is quite slow, therfore you can't fly at high speed while having your drone streaming it's video signal to your ship. The drone can only be used by slow speed or it will vanish in space.
Edit:
Sorry for the repost, but it's maybe better to discuss this topic on this main thread.
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That's all a pile of elitist bullcrap. I have been flying sims since Elite days and never felt an external view broke immersion. No matter how realistic the sim your gonna have to face the reality of it eventually. ITS A GAME. Sorry, but your sitting there in your mums basement with a CPU, table from Ikea and a joystick pretending to be in space. No in game view is gonna change that. Why limit the rest of us that want it. Right now its a very small vocal community of people. Wait till the game goes live, this is gonna leave people scratching their heads (As it did with X: Rebirth)
QFT.
I was not going to post , but do you realize how how stupid your arguments against 3rd person are ??
Really people get a grip aint there more important stuff to worry about?
ITS A GAME... and relax
Good for you. For others, it can, and does. This is no less valid than your experiences. Arguing otherwise is fallacious and more than a little insulting.
Who are you to tell them how to enjoy the game they play? I profess a lack of understanding myself, but if that's how they want to play and enjoy the game, what is wrong with that?
There is nothing wrong with wanting to lose oneself within a game, and if they want to take the extra step and try to convince themselves that they're actually within the game, even if only for the duration of their play sessions, who are you or I to tell them that that is wrong?
I will ask you again:
What, in so many words, is wrong with that? Moreover, what's wrong with the game catering to that? What's wrong with the game catering to that over third-person?
Let me flip this around:
Why are you trying to force your preferred gameplay on them?
Ignoring the insult inherent in this statement, you've got that backwards. Regardless of you or I may want (and I am hesitant to include myself in any group with you, TBH), Elite: Dangerous was funded by, and is marketed towards, a combination of sim buffs and fans of the original games. That makes them the intended audience. That makes them the majority. That makes satisfying and catering to THEM top priority.
While I am a proponent of player choice as much as reasonably possible, the fact, the reality you are going to have to face, is that ED is a first-person game, for first-person gamers, by first-person gamers. It's the basis of the design of the game.
Even assuming that third-person, or at least external views, were implemented, the fact is that there would have to be compromise to fit it in the "eyes of the commander" vision that drives the game, or it simply would not happen.
Third-person would be awesome. But it is not essential, nor is it even desired by the intended audience. If you absolutely must have it or the game is not worth playing, then perhaps you should re-evaluate whether ED is the game for you. If you absolutely can not meet it halfway, then it might not be.
What had people scratching their heads over X was the p***-poor implementation of first-person, among many, many other things. Not the lack of third-person.
Quoted for truth!
The problem with allowing 3rd person view (even as an option) is that the inherent advantages - no blind spots, seeing over obstacles, situational awareness - are such that it would force everyone to use it if they want to remain competitive in any PvP encounter.
On the other hand, not allowing it simply removes that dilemma.
Many have been quoting trackIR, rifts and HOTAS as being similar in onus (and competition breaking) however those are straw arguments. The input devices do not provide any more functionality that any other device can do, they do however increase the efficiency over other devices - This can be countered with player skills; a god view can't.
I find it hard to reconcile the view that it's just a "vocal minority" opposed to 3rd person view with the results of the poll in this very thread.
If the poll is even borderline representative then an overwhelming majority do not want it in the game. And of those that would have it, the majority would want restrictions in place to prevent abuse.
If the poll is even borderline representative then an overwhelming majority do not want it in the game. And of those that would have it, the majority would want restrictions in place to prevent abuse.
You see it would please BOTH camps, if they actually had it BUT you could disable it on the server, as a toggle switch. Having it 'your way' means its never possible for anyone, ever, just because 'YOU' and a minority don't like it. Clearly its not a done deal, plenty of people still want something. So therefore it makes sense to have it for those people and, if they join a server where its disabled then its all good. Just because Elite didn't have views on the ZX Spectrum doesn't mean it should be carried forward to 2014...
So what would your view be IF they had 3rd person view enabled in-engine, but disabled at the server level?
All that would entail would be it never never appearing for anyone, and thus a complete waste of time and resources.
Even playing locally on your machine, it would never appear. You have to log-in to validate your account credentials after all, and Computer says No!
Let the devs fulfill DB's vision (Jumper be upon Him) and let us all enjoy what he has to give.
And if you really don't like it - well, Star Citizen is over that way
All that would entail would be it never never appearing for anyone, and thus a complete waste of time and resources.
Even playing locally on your machine, it would never appear. You have to log-in to validate your account credentials after all, and Computer says No!
Let the devs fulfill DB's vision (Jumper be upon Him) and let us all enjoy what he has to give.
And if you really don't like it - well, Star Citizen is over that way
No it won't.
It won't appear for you if you're online.
But it should appear for you if you're NOT online, cuz you're not connected to a server that disabled it... ie SP Offline mode. And plenty of people will be in this mode.
So "validation" includes "pushing configurations to your PC for offline play" now?
As I understood it, "validation" is only done ONCE (to check for a legit copy) and if you never ever log in again, you can still play SP Offline mode.
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If FD allow the DRM-free copies of Elite to live eternally offline with local accounts, then yeah - you shouldn't have a problem implementing 3rd person view if that is what you really want, and IF it's implemented in the engine.
The problem with that is, if the software ever re-checks it's DRM or updates itself, or you ever get drunk and hit Multiplayer, that invokes a whole series of changes upon which you have no control, and if some server says that 3rd person has been revoked - well, it's going to be up to you to reinstall the original or outpatch the moratorium.
I don't even pretend to know how it will all work out, we will have to wait and see.
The problem with that is, if the software ever re-checks it's DRM or updates itself, or you ever get drunk and hit Multiplayer, that invokes a whole series of changes upon which you have no control, and if some server says that 3rd person has been revoked - well, it's going to be up to you to reinstall the original or outpatch the moratorium.
I don't even pretend to know how it will all work out, we will have to wait and see.
Got to be honest I would rather have 3rd person views, if only to admire (and allow recording) of Frontier's creations.
However, if they exist in MP then you should not be able to see something that is not on your scanner AND there should be no data overlaid on it.
Just my 2c worth .. ..
G
However, if they exist in MP then you should not be able to see something that is not on your scanner AND there should be no data overlaid on it.
Just my 2c worth .. ..
G
Which would not work with ED's multiplayer structure. There is only one, shared server. I myself have suggested that it be a feature of the groups system, several times, but the reception to that idea has been lukewarm at best.
Safe to say, not gonna happen.
1 - The current opinion of the developers is that third-person is not wanted. They have, time and again, said, without question or ambiguity, that the game is intended to be played from the perspective of your character. This means that traditional third-person views are out, and any potential external views will have to be filtered through that perspective.
2 - The game you are complaining about was funded by the people that you are calling the 'minority'. This 'minority' is 40,000 strong and has raised more than 3 million dollars. Clearly, they are very vocal.
3 - What evidence do you have that those who do not want third-person are in the minority? Other than that disagree with you, of course.
You want to play that game?
Plenty of people, especially people in power, don't. The devs themselves have said that it's not going to happen. While third-person supporters are well within our right to request, not demand, request, this feature, Frontier are also well within their right to say no. Which, so far, they have done.
And that's about as 'majority' as you can get.
As stated previously, incompatible with ED's server structure.
And just because the game is being made in 2014 doesn't mean it automatically has to have a third-person view. A first person, commander's-eye view is part of the Elite identity, just as much as the Coriolis station or Cobra Mk. 3.
The target audience has spoken, and has said no. The best that we in the periphery can do is try to compromise.
And if you really don't like it - well, Star Citizen is over that way
Since SC brought out the DFM video, there has been a very vocal argument against 3PV on a massive thread (and many others). There are a lot of very p!ssed off people not happy with what they've seen, and frequent references to E: D and it's current solution.
I have looked at the video and it has shown me how utterly terrible 3PV is if we're to be implemented in the way it is in the DFM preview.
The only reason I would want any form of 3PV is for those that wish to create videos or admire their ships - nerf it completely for any form of combat.
psyron
Banned
Since this seems to be the major thread on this topic i also would like to mention my idea of having a camera view screen replacing the scanner like this:
For example the bottom camera view showing the ground below your ship to help landing:
The bottom camera view helping to pick up a satellite/container with a robotic arm below your ship:
External drone camera view of own ship (ship view taken from "Dejay"):
The reasons why i would prefer the camera view to replace the scanner:
- It's located in the center of the cockpit -> more favorable.
- Player has to abstain from the scanner while using the camera view. Therefore using it while in combat would be a disadvantage, not an advantage.
- I also would like that the drone is quite slow, therfore you can't fly at high speed while having your drone streaming it's video signal to your ship. The drone can only be used by slow speed or it will vanish in space.
Edit:
Sorry for the repost, but it's maybe better to discuss this topic on this main thread.
Placing the camera view at the same position where there is the scanner (therefore replacing it while using it)?
Wouldn't this be kind of a compromise (advantages/disadvantages)?
No thoughts on this?
I sort of concur, but the issue is some people envisage themselves playing without using external view it seems. ie: They want as much immersion as possible. And this of course is absolutely fine.
The problem arises though is if an external view is offered and it does give a combat advantage, then people not wishing to use it are penalised.
The solution clearly therefore is, (a) don't offer an external view, (b) offer an external view but in such a fashion it's nerfed enough to be of no combat disadvantage.
Personally I hoping we get (b).
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