FD utter failure: engineering brought to an excess

Watching a video of gankers killing explorers in one, two volleys of cannons. I like pvp, but this is not pvp, this is a click once to win mechanic.

Thinking how beautiful and fun this game is and how hard developers failed in balancing attack and defense.

I want everyone to play in open, but engineering (nice addition) was brought to an excess.

I would gladly fight back, but then I am shut off from all the exploring and other cool things this update brought because I do not have time to explore 30 or less ly per jump and I cannot bring all the stuff I need.

If there was more balance between a pvp build and explorer build it would be feasible.

When a ship is built to explore it is made vulnerable. That to me is realistic. If a player wishes to go combat focused they can rebuild their ships to hold out in a pvp fight.
Fdev have failed at nothing. its up to you how you build the ship.

without engineering.. exploration ships would still be vulnerable against a combat config and a skilled pilot.
 
Balance is, if you can over-engineer a combat build, you should be able to over-engineer an explorer build, so your light-tank unit can do 60+ Ly jumps. Over-engineered PvP gankers would actually need to put in some effort then.

Wouldn't that be balance?



Exploration ships can do about double the range and easily have over double the defense they do without engineering.
 
Exploration ships can do about double the range and easily have over double the defense they do without engineering.

You can go one further and get pvp levels of defense AND the jump range that the fitted-for-offense ships can't possibly reach.

Apparently though, this requires too much engineering and is too difficult on a theorycrafting level to expect every player to do (and engineers are grindy and time consuming so newer players are precluded from playing events like this open), or something like that.


Indeed. My goal is to max engineer my explorer vessel, but grind will be massive. :|
 

Deleted member 115407

D
Balance is, if you can over-engineer a combat build, you should be able to over-engineer an explorer build, so your light-tank unit can do 60+ Ly jumps. Over-engineered PvP gankers would actually need to put in some effort then.

Wouldn't that be balance?

Exploration ships can do about double the range and easily have over double the defense they do without engineering.

Indeed. My goal is to max engineer my explorer vessel, but grind will be massive. :|

See, this is what happens when a handful of obstinate explorers use false language like "over-engineered combat build". They get people believing that engineering for offensive combat is the only kind of engineering there is.

Psychomorph, the defensive buffs that you can stack from engineering are well worth the grind, even for explorers. Not to mention the buffs you can get for heat, weight, jump range, etc. I highly encourage you to go for it.

Where you might be confused is in listening to explorers on these forums poo-poo on anyone trying to give them advice. They claim it is due to the disparity between combat and exploration ships, when in reality it is their strange adherence to waving around their max jump range stat like it's something that's going to win them a medal or something. If they were to sacrifice some of their jump range for a little defense they could have ships that are not only capable of exploration, but also of surviving PvP combat encounters.

For proof of that, just have a look at a bunch of us "combat explorers" that have jumped out to Distant Worlds Waypoint 2 ;)
 
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Indeed. My goal is to max engineer my explorer vessel, but grind will be massive. :|

I did it for a fresh account that I started in late November.
Unlocked all the main engineers except for Jameson, plus Guardian FSD booster.
That was an easy pace and I have 5 ships outfitted/engineered for various tasks now.

It's not that bad really!
:)

I've done it all before so I was somewhat organized.
But that was including taking time off for holiday stuff, and being generally lazy about it...
 
See, this is what happens when a handful of obstinate explorers use false language like "over-engineered combat build". They get people believing that engineering for offensive combat is the only kind of engineering there is.

Psychomorph, the defensive buffs that you can stack from engineering are well worth the grind, even for explorers. Not to mention the buffs you can get for heat, weight, jump range, etc. I highly encourage you to go for it.

Where you might be confused is in listening to explorers on these forums poo-poo on anyone trying to give them advice. They claim it is due to the disparity between combat and exploration ships, when in reality it is their strange adherence to waving around their max jump range stat like it's something that's going to win them a medal or something. If they were to sacrifice some of their jump range for a little defense they could have ships that are not only capable of exploration, but also of surviving PvP combat encounters.

For proof of that, just have a look at a bunch of us "combat explorers" that have jumped out to Distant Worlds Waypoint 2 ;)



Yes, and some of the best defenses aren't even about your build but technique, awareness etc.

[video=youtube;Uh9AWV_BWo0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh9AWV_BWo0[/video]

[video=youtube;WkmgrFet5ac]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkmgrFet5ac[/video]
 
In regards to the OP, there is no such thing as balance unless everyone has the exact same build. It's just not possible in any game in which you can modify your stock gear with something that has a different stat. But then there would be imbalance due to skill levels......
You choose to trade off jump range for less armor plating for example. Someone else trades off jump range for more firepower. When you meet you are automatically at a disadvantage in combat, but an advantage in exploration. The balance is there, but just not in your favor if you get in a fight. And you can both engineer the heck out of whatever you're interested in, it just scales each way.
So you will never have "balance" in your frame of reference. If you don't want to be at a disadvantage in PvP, play in solo, the solution is right there. If you don't want to be at a disadvantage in PvE, you'll have to stay well out of the bubble.....
 
See, this is what happens when a handful of obstinate explorers use false language like "over-engineered combat build". They get people believing that engineering for offensive combat is the only kind of engineering there is.

Psychomorph, the defensive buffs that you can stack from engineering are well worth the grind, even for explorers. Not to mention the buffs you can get for heat, weight, jump range, etc. I highly encourage you to go for it.

Where you might be confused is in listening to explorers on these forums poo-poo on anyone trying to give them advice. They claim it is due to the disparity between combat and exploration ships, when in reality it is their strange adherence to waving around their max jump range stat like it's something that's going to win them a medal or something. If they were to sacrifice some of their jump range for a little defense they could have ships that are not only capable of exploration, but also of surviving PvP combat encounters.

For proof of that, just have a look at a bunch of us "combat explorers" that have jumped out to Distant Worlds Waypoint 2 ;)

If your objective is to explore and survive encounters PvP then your advice is highly valuable, otherwise it's redundant and no, the reason why is not because of "the disparity between combat and exploration ships". When you explore, you simply don't see people unless it is a planned encounter or you are in a really popular hot spot like Sag A* or BP.
 
If your objective is to explore and survive encounters PvP then your advice is highly valuable, otherwise it's redundant and no, the reason why is not because of "the disparity between combat and exploration ships". When you explore, you simply don't see people unless it is a planned encounter or you are in a really popular hot spot like Sag A* or BP.

DW2 locations certainly seem to be popular hotspots.
 
I haul a couple of beams and decent engineered gr5 shield in my Conda with exactly that in mind, and about 60+LY range.
Total fail!
Not sure what I was hit with, but one strike and my FSD went off line and I was dead, hit by a wing of 3 before I worked out what was going on.
The other time, simply couldnt keep out of range long enough to jump out of one well equipped Anaconda.

Got any tips?
 

Deleted member 115407

D
I haul a couple of beams and decent engineered gr5 shield in my Conda with exactly that in mind, and about 60+LY range.
Total fail!
Not sure what I was hit with, but one strike and my FSD went off line and I was dead, hit by a wing of 3 before I worked out what was going on.
The other time, simply couldnt keep out of range long enough to jump out of one well equipped Anaconda.

Got any tips?

Post your build using either of the two following sites, and we might be able to give you some insight.

https://edshipyard.net/
https://coriolis.edcd.io/
 
See, this is what happens when a handful of obstinate explorers use false language like "over-engineered combat build". They get people believing that engineering for offensive combat is the only kind of engineering there is.

For proof of that, just have a look at a bunch of us "combat explorers" that have jumped out to Distant Worlds Waypoint 2 ;)

I agree with you here, even though I have a compromised explorer build with some offence and protection. Good on the PvP players griding out there on 25ly/jump!

Where I do have issue is I am not trying to force those PvPers into a rebuy because they can't jump 60ly and explore a new surface feature.
However they are forcing me into a rebuy whenever I have to play their game because I get interdicted by a wing.

There are enough PvP players in WP1 to fight each other into atoms, or even rob a few miners of cargo.
No need to go the next step and effectively stop any use of Open at WP1 unless you have a combat build.
 

Deleted member 115407

D
I agree with you here, even though I have a compromised explorer build with some offence and protection. Good on the PvP players griding out there on 25ly/jump!

Where I do have issue is I am not trying to force those PvPers into a rebuy because they can't jump 60ly and explore a new surface feature.
However they are forcing me into a rebuy whenever I have to play their game because I get interdicted by a wing.

There are enough PvP players in WP1 to fight each other into atoms, or even rob a few miners of cargo.
No need to go the next step and effectively stop any use of Open at WP1 unless you have a combat build.

Provided they are racking up notoriety, you are costing them a great deal of credits when they kill you.
 

Deleted member 115407

D
https://s.orbis.zone/1Pen hope that works for you, not just me locally...

Concept was:
1) decent jump range/exploration
2) mining as second activity (before I realised I could re-equip at WP1)
3) some protection against PvE style attack (pretty inadequate against PvP)

https://s.orbis.zone/1Pf0
https://s.orbis.zone/1Pf1

Here are some quick enhancements (I changed shields and boosters only) that add a considerable amount of shield defense, at the cost of almost no jump range. You may have to monkey with the powerplant a little, but on either if you upgrade to a 6A, Armored/Stripped Down, you gain power, integrity, and (massive) heat efficiency again at the cost of minimal jump range loss.

Dump that mining equipment and you should have lots and lots of spare power. You could even throw a fighter hanger in that thing just for fun. Maybe even a repair limpet in case you run into some hull issues.

P.S. When you're assessing your shield or (armor), don't just look at the raw megajoules. Use the defences tab to also assess your effective shields by damage type. Resistances are a very important factor.
 
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https://s.orbis.zone/1Pf0
https://s.orbis.zone/1Pf1

Here are some quick enhancements that add a considerable amount of shield defense, at the cost of almost no jump range. You may have to monkey with the powerplant a little, but on either if you upgrade to a 6A, Armored/Stripped Down, you gain power, integrity, and (massive) heat efficiency again at the cost of minimal jump range loss.

Dump that mining equipment and you should have lots and lots of spare power. You could even throw a fighter hanger in that thing just for fun. Maybe even a repair limpet in case you run into some hull issues.

Thanks- I nearly did/should have gone for heavier shields and bigger power plant as you suggest. Good tips on power engineering too :)
Didn't even consider the boosters but given the fearsome firepower I have had incoming, I can see now I would need them.
Knowing what I do now, I would not have hauled the mining gear and can see the weapons and shields I do have about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

Planning for DW3...
 

Deleted member 115407

D
Thanks- I nearly did/should have gone for heavier shields and bigger power plant as you suggest. Good tips on power engineering too :)
Didn't even consider the boosters but given the fearsome firepower I have had incoming, I can see now I would need them.
Knowing what I do now, I would not have hauled the mining gear and can see the weapons and shields I do have about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

Planning for DW3...

Good luck out there!
 
Watching a video of gankers killing explorers in one, two volleys of cannons. I like pvp, but this is not pvp, this is a click once to win mechanic.

Thinking how beautiful and fun this game is and how hard developers failed in balancing attack and defense.

I want everyone to play in open, but engineering (nice addition) was brought to an excess.

I would gladly fight back, but then I am shut off from all the exploring and other cool things this update brought because I do not have time to explore 30 or less ly per jump and I cannot bring all the stuff I need.

If there was more balance between a pvp build and explorer build it would be feasible.

I'm currently pushing 30ly jumps on my Krait which is geared for combat exploration. 2 lasers, and 3 cannons, shield boosters, hull reinforcements. . .

Normally I like a dedicated explorer but as I'm lugging around meta alloys (since you can't store them anywhere) I need to be able to defend myself.

I have to admit its a little odd expecting a multi-role ship to be able to perform at the high end of each role. You sacrifice that in order to accommodate a 2nd/3rd/4th role.
 
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