Frontier - Enough Shoulder Shrugging - Get Tough on Exploits and Exploiters.

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
Spacebaboy said:
Legally, that is not true. People trot out the EULA as if it's the main thing. It's not. It's the Consumer Credit Act.

Paying for the game gives you rights as a consumer. FD are a British company operating in Cambridge, therefore they are subject to British law. However, to my knowledge this legally has never been tested.

There have always been exploiters of games, and always will. FD should quit the scare tactics and the 'shaking of a stick', as quite frankly its record in policing its game over the years has been incredibly poor, and will most likely continue to remain so (how long did those using cheat programs get away with it for?) Instead, they should just concentrate on fixing their game.
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there wont be permenant bans from the game.... even if they could do it they wont... at worst it will be either shadow bans where they can no longer affect the BGS or play in open,

the important thing is that all confirmed cheaters get all their eng mods replaced with stock. this is not even a punishment of any kind, it is just correcting something which they never should have had, so is the bare minimum of what must surely happen.

That being said, saying they cant do it is surely nonsense. when you buy a game you do not BUY a game, you do not own it... you in effect buy a licence to use the game, and like with any licence to use something, if you break the rules of that licence you stand to get it revoked.


players got banned from halo, and gears of war for cheating & / or exploiting and despite lots of willy waving on their forums about how they would be hearing from their solicitors, the bans kept on coming.

MS not only banned people from 1 game... they actively borked peoples consoles and made it so ANY save used on a flagged console was corrupted beyond repair.... ANY game, regardless of if it was on that console or if a friend popped around to a friends house and made the mistake of putting in their memory card into the machine......

Nothing was done to stop them doing this.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
Agony_Aunt said:
Strange, because the people who play in the Mobius groups are quite happy and not salty about it. While there are some players who don't play in it that seem to be well... rather salty.

One has to wonder where the real problem lies.
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A long time ago, from the depths of space, a man, or rather a beast of a man, emerged commanding an army of 33 thousand invisible ghostlike warriors. Their only mission, to ruin the game of the good people of Open. Before going to bed, the Majinmoms of some notorious PvP groups told them stories how this boogieman would point at a system and it's influence would melt like their believability when complaining about exploits.

After the debacle of 3302, when the brave CMDRs of some PvP groups dared to enter the beast's lair and started killing the ghost CMDRs to put a hold to this atrocity, the beast became quite irate and a wave of background simulation terror swept over the galaxy. In the charred remains a wizard proclaimed; "No more" and killed some irrelevant silly bint. This made the beast scratch it's head and retreated confused back into it's dimension with it's ghost army where they sulked and got on with their invisible lives.

But all CMDRs know ... one day .... when provoked .... as it is prophesized in the Book of Ballcocks ... the beast will awaken and the horrors will return to the now peaceful Milky Way.
 
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Pyrotiger

Pyrotiger
Mad Mike said:
there wont be permenant bans from the game.... even if they could do it they wont... at worst it will be either shadow bans where they can no longer affect the BGS or play in open,

the important thing is that all confirmed cheaters get all their eng mods replaced with stock. this is not even a punishment of any kind, it is just correcting something which they never should have had, so is the bare minimum of what must surely happen.

That being said, saying they cant do it is surely nonsense. when you buy a game you do not BUY a game, you do not own it... you in effect buy a licence to use the game, and like with any licence to use something, if you break the rules of that licence you stand to get it revoked.


players got banned from halo, and gears of war for cheating & / or exploiting and despite lots of willy waving on their forums about how they would be hearing from their solicitors, the bans kept on coming.

MS not only banned people from 1 game... they actively borked peoples consoles and made it so ANY save used on a flagged console was corrupted beyond repair.... ANY game, regardless of if it was on that console or if a friend popped around to a friends house and made the mistake of putting in their memory card into the machine......

Nothing was done to stop them doing this.
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If the EULA was primary, what you would be saying would be correct. But (as far as I know) it is not primary in this case. I presume the other companies are actually American entities, thus don't have to operate within the confines of the Consumer Credit Act?

What you say about buying a game - well, it certainly seems a sound enough idea, but in the days before the internet, you buy a game, you do what you want with it (apart from illegally distribute it). The licence concept - I don't think that has become enshrined with law properly. It could be argued that, although ED is not on the computers, once you download something which allows you to play the game, you have enough of 'the game' to consider it partly your property. Of course, the EULA states otherwise.

Those talking about legal action may have desisted from it because:
1) American companies operating in American jurisdiction (ergo, not a leg to stand on)
2) They realised that it would take quite a bit of time and money to legally challenge said companies
3) Getting someone to take the case might be problematic

As I said before, FD could better spend the time and resources actually proving who exploited what actually fixing the problem in the first place! I mean, think about it. Chances are, this exploit has been going on for a long, long time - and I guarantee you, knowing people, for every exploit we know about, they'll be ten others we don't.

Or, give us an offline mode that we can hack and exploit to pieces - the good old days! :D
 
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Pyrotiger

Pyrotiger
Ziggy Stardust said:
A long time ago, from the depths of space, a man, or rather a beast of a man, emerged commanding an army of 33 thousand invisible ghostlike warriors. Their only mission, to ruin the game of the good people of Open. Before going to bed, the Majinmoms of some notorious PvP groups told them stories how this boogieman would point at a system and it's influence would melt like their believability when complaining about exploits.

After the debacle of 3302, when the brave CMDRs of some PvP groups dared to enter the beast's lair and started killing the ghost CMDRs to put a hold to this atrocity, the beast became quite irate and a wave of background simulation terror swept over the galaxy. In the charred remains a wizard proclaimed; "No more" and killed some irrelevant silly bint. This made the beast scratch it's head and retreated confused back into it's dimension with it's ghost army where they sulked and got on with their invisible lives.

But all CMDRs know ... one day .... when provoked .... as it is prophesized in the Book of Ballcocks ... the beast will awaken and the horrors will return to the now peaceful Milky Way.
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Nu brejkt mein klompf. I think. Umm...you've lost it Ziggy :D
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Ziggy Stardust said:
A long time ago, from the depths of space, a man, or rather a beast of a man, emerged commanding an army of 33 thousand invisible ghostlike warriors. Their only mission, to ruin the game of the good people of Open. Before going to bed, the Majinmoms of some notorious PvP groups told them stories how this boogieman would point at a system and it's influence would melt like their believability when complaining about exploits.

After the debacle of 3302, when the brave CMDRs of some PvP groups dared to enter the beast's lair and started killing the ghost CMDRs to put a hold to this atrocity, the beast became quite irate and a wave of background simulation terror swept over the galaxy. In the charred remains a wizard proclaimed; "No more" and killed some irrelevant silly bint. This made the beast scratch it's head and retreated confused back into it's dimension with it's ghost army where they sulked and got on with their invisible lives.

But all CMDRs know ... one day .... when provoked .... as it is prophesized in the Book of Ballcocks ... the beast will awaken and the horrors will return to the now peaceful Milky Way.
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I read that using my Mad Max narrator voiceover and it made my day.
 

Elethiomel Zakalwe

E
CMDR _BigJay_ said:
Now I'm a little confused... I think I know the game pretty well, are there exploits that gain you Elite rank?

I know I took advantage of some mis-calculations by FD for some of my rank. Sothis trucking got me Trade Elite quicker than any other way, and Sightseeing missions helped me go from Pioneer to Elite fairly quickly. But I can't imagine either of these would be considered exploits.
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There were like two years ago. AKA the AFK-turrets next to a friendly capital ship exploit. Not anymore though because the cap ship can steal kills.
 

bitstorm

bitstorm
Mad Mike said:
That being said, saying they cant do it is surely nonsense. when you buy a game you do not BUY a game, you do not own it... you in effect buy a licence to use the game, and like with any licence to use something, if you break the rules of that licence you stand to get it revoked.


players got banned from halo, and gears of war for cheating & / or exploiting and despite lots of willy waving on their forums about how they would be hearing from their solicitors, the bans kept on coming.

MS not only banned people from 1 game... they actively borked peoples consoles and made it so ANY save used on a flagged console was corrupted beyond repair.... ANY game, regardless of if it was on that console or if a friend popped around to a friends house and made the mistake of putting in their memory card into the machine......

Nothing was done to stop them doing this.
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Steam VAC bans.

Cheat in Counterstrike and Steam will ban you, not just from Counterstrike, but from a bunch of their source games.

Ban means you're looking at single player or lan or non-VAC servers only.

As already discussed Frontier can just shadowban, aka no more open, no more affecting the BGS.

Also....

Valve said:
VAC bans are permanent, non-negotiable, and cannot be removed by Steam Support.
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It's about the integrity of the game.
 
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Quantum Fluke

Q
Sometimes when I see all the exploits (clog, credits, now engis) and game that seems to be duct-taped pieces together at points, I just think it would be best to "pave over the area and get on with our lives". Just pack the bags and make Elite 4 with servers, good content and fleshed out mechanics. If you can't do proper servers, then go with Offline+coop or private servers like Freelancer.

Said with tongue in cheek (mostly).

That said it's really funny (and sad) to see some players defend exploiting. Just ban their access to Open - that way they can exploit their hearts out and never affect other players.
 

Theodrid

Theodrid
Ziggy Stardust said:
A long time ago, from the depths of space, a man, or rather a beast of a man, emerged commanding an army of 33 thousand invisible ghostlike warriors. Their only mission, to ruin the game of the good people of Open. Before going to bed, the Majinmoms of some notorious PvP groups told them stories how this boogieman would point at a system and it's influence would melt like their believability when complaining about exploits.

After the debacle of 3302, when the brave CMDRs of some PvP groups dared to enter the beast's lair and started killing the ghost CMDRs to put a hold to this atrocity, the beast became quite irate and a wave of background simulation terror swept over the galaxy. In the charred remains a wizard proclaimed; "No more" and killed some irrelevant silly bint. This made the beast scratch it's head and retreated confused back into it's dimension with it's ghost army where they sulked and got on with their invisible lives.

But all CMDRs know ... one day .... when provoked .... as it is prophesized in the Book of Ballcocks ... the beast will awaken and the horrors will return to the now peaceful Milky Way.
Click to expand...

Crikey Ziggy, that's early to be at the Creme de Menthe!
 

Vasco Sapien

Vasco Sapien
So is it true that the people who performed this Engineer cheat for a year to get god roll ships, only got a 30 day ban, but got to keep their ship configs?

This rumour is bouncing around.

Because if this is true... it's outrageous.

A green light for any cheat.
 

GG7

G
Arvel Yael said:
Blatant cheating is only disapproved of here. DCS World for example HAS a cheat submenu where cheats can actually be mapped to keyboard or joystick buttons. The cheats for Doom and Skyrim are well known, extremely publicised, and officially accepted.

It seems cheating is a problem because the game is online-only, and - outside of solo - forces players to interact with each other.
I'm the sort of player who believes that if I buy a game, whatever I do in it short of reverse engineering or altering the executable itself, is entirely my business. I appreciate that in ED, things such as invulnerability cheats or unlimited ammo cheats would have an indisputably negative impact on other players, which is why they're not in the game.

So there is something I want - a way to skip the grind and tedium - that I can't have because I have instead something I don't want - having to share the galaxy with a bunch of people who not only do I not see eye to eye with, but don't even look in the general direction of.

With Doom, for example, I'd play the game until about two thirds of the way through, get sick of the frames-counting "remember its moves" boss fights, and just cheat my way through the end of the game. When the credits rolled, I'd think "Enjoyed the story and atmosphere... the grinding, not so much. Still, I've seen all there is to see now, so I can ditch Doom and go and play the next new thing".

When ED gets tedious, I can't. It's grind, or play something else. Why? Because if I tried to skip the grind, that would negatively affect other players. A valid and fair point, but I personally would rather have the option to skip the grind, than the option to interact with other players.

Hell, I would buy a third hard drive and give ED several terabytes of hard disk space, if it meant that I had my own instance, running locally, on my computer, unaltered, unadjusted, untweaked, un-interfered with, with every single subsequent update.

But that's just me and I suspect in that, I'm strongly in the minority, so hey.

I'll continue playing of course. A few million credits here, a few million credits there, in the vain hope that I can get the next sparkly ship, and the game will suddenly - temporarily - become interesting again. Until the novelty wears off, then it's back to DCS World or Skyrim.

Ho Hum.
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DCS World sounds like a crap game to me.

Sounds like you have a problem playing by the rules and achieving your in-game progress through fair play like us honest players have?

I think you should head on over to your beloved DCS World without delay, and uninstall ED in the process.

Cheaters and those who apologize for them are not welcome in this community.
 
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GG7

G
Mad Mike said:
there wont be permenant bans from the game.... even if they could do it they wont... at worst it will be either shadow bans where they can no longer affect the BGS or play in open,

the important thing is that all confirmed cheaters get all their eng mods replaced with stock. this is not even a punishment of any kind, it is just correcting something which they never should have had, so is the bare minimum of what must surely happen.

That being said, saying they cant do it is surely nonsense. when you buy a game you do not BUY a game, you do not own it... you in effect buy a licence to use the game, and like with any licence to use something, if you break the rules of that licence you stand to get it revoked.


players got banned from halo, and gears of war for cheating & / or exploiting and despite lots of willy waving on their forums about how they would be hearing from their solicitors, the bans kept on coming.

MS not only banned people from 1 game... they actively borked peoples consoles and made it so ANY save used on a flagged console was corrupted beyond repair.... ANY game, regardless of if it was on that console or if a friend popped around to a friends house and made the mistake of putting in their memory card into the machine......

Nothing was done to stop them doing this.
Click to expand...

Yep.

MS doesn't screw around when it comes to cheating and exploiting their console and XBL. There are plenty of examples online including screenshots of Xbox 360s and XB1s that have been BRICKED by Microsoft sending the console a special message that basically lobotomizes the console, rendering it useless for online gaming forever.

All Xbox owners agree to abide by the XBL TOS, and violating that agreement opens them up to a bricked console.

So... There is precedent for perma-banning cheaters of a PC game.

I would consider what these cheaters did grounds for permanent bans from the game. They can yell and scream all they want. Hire a lawyer if they want to waste their $$ on a case that will get thrown out. Frontier has the legal right to permanently ban ANY purchaser of one of their IPs if that purchaser has violated the game's terms of service.

There is NO gray area here.

I really hope FD makes an example of these losers.
 
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