Griefers make open impossible, and how easy the solution is.

myothershipisacobraiv

myothershipisacobraiv
Urfin said:
It really breaks down to that the ability to flip modes is effectively a invincible and full stealth ability for Open. And thats just not balanced. Nobody ever needs to be in open when he is not at an advantage. So in that other space game, some dude ganks my ship. But then, he can't just vanish. He needs to pay for expenses, needs to have assets I can attack. So eventually I bring friends, pay some mercs, have 2 alt accounts in his corp and one day when he is unsuspecting mining in his wormhole, a full fleet of stealth bombers decloaks and his corp gets awoxed and at the end he got nothing left because he ed off the wrong guy by blowing up his howler 2 years ago. Thats what I call consequence. In Elite, dude is farming in solo, outfitting in solo, flying to the target system in solo. Boardflip - hurr durr Im ze invincibul elite-cutter - blows up some unsuspecting dude - boardflips away to farm more in solo. Thats whats killing open.

PS: and I'm fully aware the discussion is moot, because it's never gonna change. But this game could have been so much more without giving anything up or taking anyones ability to play solo or pg away. It's perfectly fine people opt-out of open. But then stay in your solo world and dont bring your fake-elite stuff to open in order to mess with my game.
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It can change, and it should change, if Frontier is about to release a major expansion for the console generation launch that they're basically going to use to do Elite: Dangerous - The Console Launch Space Game Edition.

Ganking screws over Elite. It doesn't add more than it takes away. It doesn't inspire people to get better, it just exploits and puts the focus on the worst parts of the progression system, and completely upends the game's immersion too.

Frontier could take some pretty heavy handed action on this and I doubt it would do harm than good.
 

Stinja

S
Urfin said:
But then stay in your solo world and dont bring your fake-elite stuff to open in order to mess with my game.
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And xbox and PS4? They can mess with your Open on PC, and there's nothing you can do about that except buy another platform.
Likewise as consoles have Solo mode forced on them if they don't buy the platform holder's subscription, Solo is not going away for them in the short-term.

Lastly i'll add that "Open mode", "Solo mode" and PGs are all just an instancing filter.
Game connects, then checks to see who you've selected to filter in/out, and starts.
 

Linnunrata

Linnunrata
Urfin said:
In Elite, dude is farming in solo, outfitting in solo, flying to the target system in solo. Boardflip - hurr durr Im ze invincibul elite-cutter - blows up some unsuspecting dude - boardflips away to farm more in solo. Thats whats killing open.
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You'd have to change ED quite a lot, considering how you could pretty safely grind credits and materials in Open and nobody would ever find you from the thousands of systems in the bubble. Dropping modes would simply exarbate the Elite issue of select system camping.
 
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Ethaidan

Ethaidan
Urfin said:
It really breaks down to that the ability to flip modes is effectively a invincible and full stealth ability for Open. And thats just not balanced. Nobody ever needs to be in open when he is not at an advantage. So in that other space game, some dude ganks my ship. But then, he can't just vanish. He needs to pay for expenses, needs to have assets I can attack. So eventually I bring friends, pay some mercs, have 2 alt accounts in his corp and one day when he is unsuspecting mining in his wormhole, a full fleet of stealth bombers decloaks and his corp gets awoxed and at the end he got nothing left because he ed off the wrong guy by blowing up his howler 2 years ago. Thats what I call consequence. In Elite, dude is farming in solo, outfitting in solo, flying to the target system in solo. Boardflip - hurr durr Im ze invincibul elite-cutter - blows up some unsuspecting dude - boardflips away to farm more in solo. Thats whats killing open.

PS: and I'm fully aware the discussion is moot, because it's never gonna change. But this game could have been so much more without giving anything up or taking anyones ability to play solo or pg away. It's perfectly fine people opt-out of open. But then stay in your solo world and dont bring your fake-elite stuff to open in order to mess with my game.
Click to expand...

Wanna know what's worse than having mode options? "Me gots two alts in his corps, hurr durr I'm so clever and forthright"
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
Urfin said:
It really breaks down to that the ability to flip modes is effectively a invincible and full stealth ability for Open. And thats just not balanced. Nobody ever needs to be in open when he is not at an advantage. So in that other space game, some dude ganks my ship. But then, he can't just vanish. He needs to pay for expenses, needs to have assets I can attack. So eventually I bring friends, pay some mercs, have 2 alt accounts in his corp and one day when he is unsuspecting mining in his wormhole, a full fleet of stealth bombers decloaks and his corp gets awoxed and at the end he got nothing left because he ed off the wrong guy by blowing up his howler 2 years ago. Thats what I call consequence. In Elite, dude is farming in solo, outfitting in solo, flying to the target system in solo. Boardflip - hurr durr Im ze invincibul elite-cutter - blows up some unsuspecting dude - boardflips away to farm more in solo. Thats whats killing open.

PS: and I'm fully aware the discussion is moot, because it's never gonna change. But this game could have been so much more without giving anything up or taking anyones ability to play solo or pg away. It's perfectly fine people opt-out of open. But then stay in your solo world and dont bring your fake-elite stuff to open in order to mess with my game.
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Engineers killed open.
 

Stinja

S
Navigare Necesse Est said:
Engineers killed open.
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I'd say engineers killed "fair" PvP, not Open itself.

You used to be to fly in a PvE bounty hunting build, or even an armed trader, and have a decent chance / not massive raw deficit against a PvP ship. Engs shifted that to basically use a PvP build or have no chance (* obviously still dependant on skill etc, but raw power differences became huge).

Open itself is just fine, and TBH I've not done much PvP since silent running BDSs were a thing back in 2.1 (apart from the odd non-consensual ganker vs my Fuel Rat ships), but would be fine with PGs being removed (Open only, but Solo still exists), or a proper Open PvE mode, or keep the status quo.
I just wish FDev would message their vision a bit better to clean up some of these discussion. Sure they'd have criticism no matter what they did, but at least a bit of clarity would be given.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
Stinja said:
I'd say engineers killed "fair" PvP, not Open itself.

You used to be to fly in a PvE bounty hunting build, or even an armed trader, and have a decent chance / not massive raw deficit against a PvP ship. Engs shifted that to basically use a PvP build or have no chance (* obviously still dependant on skill etc, but raw power differences became huge).

Open itself is just fine, and TBH I've not done much PvP since silent running BDSs were a thing back in 2.1 (apart from the odd non-consensual ganker vs my Fuel Rat ships), but would be fine with PGs being removed (Open only, but Solo still exists), or a proper Open PvE mode, or keep the status quo.
I just wish FDev would message their vision a bit better to clean up some of these discussion. Sure they'd have criticism no matter what they did, but at least a bit of clarity would be given.
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OK, it killed it for me. I see no incentive joining a mode where some grindlord can just lolstomp me without much effort.
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
Stinja said:
I'd say engineers killed "fair" PvP, not Open itself.

You used to be to fly in a PvE bounty hunting build, or even an armed trader, and have a decent chance / not massive raw deficit against a PvP ship. Engs shifted that to basically use a PvP build or have no chance (* obviously still dependant on skill etc, but raw power differences became huge).

Open itself is just fine, and TBH I've not done much PvP since silent running BDSs were a thing back in 2.1 (apart from the odd non-consensual ganker vs my Fuel Rat ships), but would be fine with PGs being removed (Open only, but Solo still exists), or a proper Open PvE mode, or keep the status quo.
I just wish FDev would message their vision a bit better to clean up some of these discussion. Sure they'd have criticism no matter what they did, but at least a bit of clarity would be given.
Click to expand...
Why remove PG's? The PG is the most versatile of game modes, giving the benefit of multiplayer gameplay with a little control over the game environment, I have a couple of friends who play ED (now in private group instead of solo) who would have left the game by now if open and solo were the only options. Playing together can make a difference to the enjoyment of the game for some - and removing 'unwanted content' keeps them in the game.

Only speaking from experience with a very limited sample :)
 

Linnunrata

Linnunrata
Ratkatcher said:
Why remove PG's? The PG is the most versatile of game modes, giving the benefit of multiplayer gameplay with a little control over the game environment, I have a couple of friends who play ED (now in private group instead of solo) who would have left the game by now if open and solo were the only options. Playing together can make a difference to the enjoyment of the game for some - and removing 'unwanted content' keeps them in the game.
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Yeah, removing PGs would be awful - the end of expedition mass starts that is. DW2 Open start was crawling with very dedicated gankships, and obviously there is zero point of having a "meet up" in Solo.
 
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