Grinding isn't the player's fault

[TheMegaTurnip]

You should check your system and drivers if you're getting multiple disconnects, I live in the middle of nowhere my bandwidth is dialup sort of speeds sometimes worse and even the electricity supply can be patchy to the point where I use actual clockwork clocks as they are less hassle.

Last time I had an ED disconnect was Mrs Stigbob downloading gardeners question time in HD and stealing the whole internet, I've never had a bluescreen even through my systems old and needs replacing.

The game is still really stable.

Lol, Yeah it would be drivers, if it wasnt on a console lol. It's not stable not by any stretch, its a mess.

My bandwidth is also pretty poor, but that does'nt make up for trying to jump in cruise > bluescreen, drop on a wake > bluescreen, Drop in the station > bluescreen, Jump into a system with players in it. Yuup, you guessed it.

Its a shambles mate. There is no excuse to release a game that wouldnt make it though quality control anywhere else and try to justify it being a playable game.

Moreover to then continously insult the players intelligence with lame excuses and literally no effort.

New content is all well and good. But UTTERLY redundant if the old systems that couse all the issues have'nt been touched.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

I don't regret buying the game, because when it first came out, it was pretty good on my platform. I feel I got my money's worth before it started going downhill. What I DO regret is supporting Frontier by spending extra money on cosmetics, because the game has gotten progressively worse on my PS4 with each update (see my sig for just one example), and I'm at the point where I've lost all faith in the company. I didn't even know the PS4 had a "blue screen of death" until I installed Elite Dangerous on it, COL.

I'm really hoping Bethesda can take the best parts of ED and give us a working game that will scratch the itch that currently only ED comes close to scratching, because after almost a year of suffering through broken update after broken update, I don't think ED will ever be fixed.

AMEN. It's atrocious aye.

Yeah mate, Starfield looks like the winning bet and we havent seen fk all about it.

What the hell does that say FDev.

An no mate, im inclined to agree, they are happy to push out more grind and vapid content, but absolutley seem to refuse to work on the basic stability issues.

Stuff that should have been sorted out and opimised BEFORE you make a release on a new platform.

Yeah, Im pretty ticked off about the cosmetics thing and all. Not a mistake i'll be making again with any other game, untill i KNOW that im not just having the P taken out of me.

 

[trigun539]

Those are your feelings and there's nothing crazy about that. However it seems to try to objectivize your feelings. Don't. You don't like game and that's short and long of it. No need try to pad it and call everyone disagreeing in names.

I do like the game and there are good things about the game, not everything is bad (cool premise, flying ships etc). I would not be here giving feedback at tall if I didn't care about the game. The big issue for me is FD and their complete lack of understanding players/feedback and issues within the game. Sometimes it seems like they don't even play their own game... They should have testers start from 0, every time they implement a "fix" and see how that affects players.

There are many EASY fixes for many things in the game and they seem to just don't care, they take their players for granted and I would almost go for as far as abusing their player base.

In this thread itself, there are many pretty dedicated players (unless they are devs in disguise). It is hard to see players trying to defend all of the things in the game that are just bad (I'm not saying that people do not enjoy the game even with all of its flaws).

I mean, you do just wait most of the time in ED (50%>). It is just sitting down without nothing else to do. There is not excuse for something like this, it just is bad gameplay. People that try to excuse this are "ok" with doing nothing in a game which puzzles me.

The waiting around should at maximum be 1-5%. I mean it is like a loading screen. Now, imagine having 50%> of loading screen...

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

My counter to that would be, they shouldn't play the game if they don't enjoy the content there is.

I know i certainly wouldn't play a game i wasn't enjoying, and if i don't enjoy the grind, i don't do it.

Therefore i would say yes, it is the players fault for doing something they don't enjoy. Kind of like your last part of the quoted text.

Meanwhile, i'm having a blast in Fortnite: Save the World, grinding away like a madman

Fair, but to know you first have to play a while to find out. Or worse: You liked the game and then an update ruins it for you. Like engineers. That tends to make people salty, because moving the goalposts like that for what you already paid is kinda unfair.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

My counter to that would be, they shouldn't play the game if they don't enjoy the content there is.

I know i certainly wouldn't play a game i wasn't enjoying, and if i don't enjoy the grind, i don't do it.

Therefore i would say yes, it is the players fault for doing something they don't enjoy. Kind of like your last part of the quoted text.

Meanwhile, i'm having a blast in Fortnite: Save the World, grinding away like a madman

And how many players has the game lost due to that? LOTS is the simple answer.

For a game with such a solid flight model, it has a heck of a lot of holes.

At this point the flight model is about the only working decent thing in game.

 

[Stigbob]

Fair, but to know you first have to play a while to find out. Or worse: You liked the game and then an update ruins it for you. Like engineers. That tends to make people salty, because moving the goalposts like that for what you already paid is kinda unfair.

That's subjective though I like engineered things and engineering, but I don't grind at it so I only get the positive side.

 

[Flimley]

Making us travel to the moon in a rocket is the moons fault !

Flimley

 

[Stigbob]

I do like the game and there are good things about the game, not everything is bad (cool premise, flying ships etc). I would not be here giving feedback at tall if I didn't care about the game. The big issue for me is FD and their complete lack of understanding players/feedback and issues within the game. Sometimes it seems like they don't even play their own game... They should have testers start from 0, every time they implement a "fix" and see how that affects players.

There are many EASY fixes for many things in the game and they seem to just don't care, they take their players for granted and I would almost go for as far as abusing their player base.

In this thread itself, there are many pretty dedicated players (unless they are devs in disguise). It is hard to see players trying to defend all of the things in the game that are just bad (I'm not saying that people do not enjoy the game even with all of its flaws).

I mean, you do just wait most of the time in ED (50%>). It is just sitting down without nothing else to do. There is not excuse for something like this, it just is bad gameplay. People that try to excuse this are "ok" with doing nothing in a game which puzzles me.

The waiting around should at maximum be 1-5%. I mean it is like a loading screen. Now, imagine having 50%> of loading screen...

Deffo no devs in disguise around here, the Russian bots and the illuminati have run them all off.

I'm baffled why people grind at all, now if the grinders were a bit happier or enthusiastic about their approach and how effective it is I might be tempted to think the basis for them doing it (speed) is correct.

I really don't think it's working the way they think it does though, it gives the impression of speed in one very limited area whilst blocking any other way of progressing completely. The net gain is a loss, on all fronts.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Making us travel to the moon in a rocket is the moons fault !

Flimley

Nope. You're wrong.

We use chemical rockets because we've yet to sort our a different alternative.

Get what im saying?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Fair, but to know you first have to play a while to find out. Or worse: You liked the game and then an update ruins it for you. Like engineers. That tends to make people salty, because moving the goalposts like that for what you already paid is kinda unfair.

Yeah, i liked Engineers 1.0, but then they implemented 2.0, which was not as good for me. Wish they hadn't moved the goalposts like that. Still, the brokers offset it somewhat.

And how many players has the game lost due to that? LOTS is the simple answer.

For a game with such a solid flight model, it has a heck of a lot of holes.

At this point the flight model is about the only working decent thing in game.

Very personal and subjective opinion there, plus we have no idea how many people have been lost, or how many would be lost or gained if they had done different things with the mechanics. Grindy mechanics do provide a lot of player retention as well as turning people away. Without grind, content is easily consumed, and then players often quit anyway once they have got what they want.

I'm not saying i'm a fan of the grind in ED (which is why i try and avoid it as much as possible - and it is largely possible) but grind in itself is not always a bad thing for player retention.

 

[WeavingBird1917]

Making us travel to the moon in a rocket is the moons fault !

Flimley

Blame gravity.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

I'm baffled why people grind at all, now if the grinders were a bit happier or enthusiastic about their approach and how effective it is I might be tempted to think the basis for them doing it (speed) is correct.

Because people want to progress. The game literally never lets you forget how much grind is involved.

If it does'nt bother you, then fine, but it bothers a good 40% of the community, maybe even as far as 60%.

When those kind of percentages are in play, there is a definate issue. Thats just logic.

Moreover, take the total number of people who have purchased this game, vs how many people still play it and you'll be getting pretty good numbers on how bad the game design is.

 

[Marra Morgan]

it bothers a good 40% of the community, maybe even as far as 60%.

Are you making stuff up?

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Very personal and subjective opinion there, plus we have no idea how many people have been lost, or how many would be lost or gained if they had done different things with the mechanics. Grindy mechanics do provide a lot of player retention as well as turning people away. Without grind, content is easily consumed, and then players often quit anyway once they have got what they want.

I'm not saying i'm a fan of the grind in ED (which is why i try and avoid it as much as possible - and it is largely possible) but grind in itself is not always a bad thing for player retention.

Well not really. There are enough posts on here to show that the discourse in the community is mostly based around grind and instability. It might grant player retention if the grind is engaging, but its not is it?

Hence the thousands of posts a week complaining about the grind and the constant DC's.

Are you making stuff up?

Have you seen the number of posts on this subject? Or do they slip by you?

People don't mind a grind, but nearly everyone is bothered by it being vapid and not engaging.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Have you seen the number of posts on this subject? Or do they slip by you?

So other than posts in a thread, you have nothing to support your claims of "40% of the community, maybe even as far as 60%"?

I think you're making stuff up.

 

[WeavingBird1917]

Very personal and subjective opinion there, plus we have no idea how many people have been lost, or how many would be lost or gained if they had done different things with the mechanics. Grindy mechanics do provide a lot of player retention as well as turning people away. Without grind, content is easily consumed, and then players often quit anyway once they have got what they want.

You can get a good idea from the Steam reviews and ED's rating. Almost all negative reviews can either attributed to the grind, or shallow gameplay mechanics. 1 in 3 reviews are negative. I mean, there are other even more grindy games in theory, such as Factorio, but you almost never notice the grind (at least judging from Steam reviews). I personally don't see how having a rating of 6/10 is good for player retention or player acquisition. I disagree that players quit faster if there isn't a grind, just look at sim games or sandbox games.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

So other than posts in a thread, you have nothing to support your claims of "40% of the community, maybe even as far as 60%"?

I think you're making stuff up.

Good for you, I really couldnt care less. Cognitive dissonance is not my buisiness.

You can get a good idea from the Steam reviews and ED's rating. Almost all negative reviews can either attributed to the grind, or shallow gameplay mechanics. 1 in 3 reviews are negative. I mean, there are other even more grindy games in theory, such as Factorio, but you almost never notice the grind (at least judging from Steam reviews). I personally don't see how having a rating of 6/10 is good for player retention or player acquisition. I disagree that players quit faster if there isn't a grind, just look at sim games or sandbox games.

Yup. ^ this right here.

Factor in all those who left due to in-game bull , and those who are unhappy now, it's a very large portion of the community.

NOONE on PS4 is happy. Or at least noone i've spoken too.

And seeing the amount of comments and attention these posts get its a real wonder how FDev dont see the issues.

 

[WeavingBird1917]

So other than posts in a thread, you have nothing to support your claims of "40% of the community, maybe even as far as 60%"?

I think you're making stuff up.

Just look at the most helpful Steam reviews. Take the first 100, count all the reviews with the word grind in it. It's about 50/50. By the way, the 40/60 ratio he's talking about is based on the ratio positive vs negative reviews on Steam.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Just look at the most helpful Steam reviews. Take the first 100, count all the reviews with the word grind in it. It's about 50/50. By the way, the 40/60 ratio he's talking about is based on the Steam statistics of positive vs negative reviews.

+1 virtual reps.

(Damn rep timer)

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

And seeing the amount of comments and attention these posts get its a real wonder how FDev dont see the issues.

You're right!
If FDev had been paying attention they would have:

Reduced the number of mats needed for engineering recipes
Removed the need for commodities
Simplified the process of engineering to reduce RNG
Increased the number of mats we can carry
Implemented a mechanism for converting mats into different grades

Clearly they're paying no attention at all.