Modes Idea for game mode resources being non transferable

[Zieman]

Discussion is the operative word. Of which there is often not much of regarding large changes. There is a largely concerted effort to ignore real discussion if it upsets those most well known in the comunity. Though there is very unlikely a coalition of people orchestrating these things, there most definatly is a pecking order on here thats almost unspoken, but expected to be adhered too.

Whoa there dude! That level tin-foil hattery makes you sound too much like that90skid!

I will not play by those rules on here. If I make a point, I expect a decent discussion regarding it, involving other veiwpoint, other ideas, and eventually a compromise. Not to have my points picked apart, with no real responses other than a list of the reasons why it's not liked, or would'nt work.

What? Are you really saying that if someone doesn't like your idea, they shouldn't comment at all? Talk about trying to control the discussion...

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Ok. So I am someone who doesn't enjoy PvP. Here's what you said:
"That's just how it comes across, people who don't "enjoy" PvP, tend to spend an awful lot of time trying to make sure that it either gets further demonised, or continuously tries to make out that the PvP community knows nothing and are just children."


That sentiment comes from both sides. Which is why I am suggesting the divide is not PvE / PvP, but rather: those who are open to discussion / those who try to shut down discussion.


I would like to see evidence for "majority", because I believe that to be bollox. Those who voice those sentiments stand out, are more noticeable so I think there is selective observation going on.

Can you honestly tell me there isn't a significant amount of PvPers looking down on PvEers? (significant amount, but a minority still)


It certainly doesn't.

I'm a bit lost at the first point there Ziggy.

As for the division thing, I am very much inclined to agree with you, but a large portion of that division does indeed stem from bitterness regarding playstyles. Not all of it, but certainly a fair amount, or at least as far as I can tell anyways.

Hmm, I'm not sure, I've had abuse from plenty of people in game, and been talked down to a plenty on these forums. Maybe I've just seen a bad group, but it does feel a little like if there was an option, a large group would just have PvP removed entirely. Yeah, unfortunatly it certainly does go both ways. But then that comes back round to my points regarding how people will not make efforts to discuss ideas or points, merely pick the one that suits thier view/playstyle and stick to it like superglue.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Whoa there dude! That level tin-foil hattery makes you sound too much like that90skid!

What? Are you really saying that if someone doesn't like your idea, they shouldn't comment at all? Talk about trying to control the discussion...

Just calling it how I see it man. Seniority on these forums does indeed appear to have an awful lot of swing.

No, I'm saying I won't often reply to people who don't have any constructive ideas or suggestions to contribute. I'm a very reasonable man, I'd much rather have a decent discussion regarding an idea, than deal with responses that are only interested in making the original idea look stupid.

 

[Zieman]

Just calling it how I see it man. Seniority on these forums does indeed appear to have an awful lot of swing.

No, I'm saying I won't often reply to people who don't have any constructive ideas or suggestions to contribute. I'm a very reasonable man, I'd much rather have a decent discussion regarding an idea, than deal with responses that are only interested in making the original idea look stupid.

Fair enough.
Pretty often though the "original" ideas don't need any help in looking stupid.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Fair enough.
Pretty often though the "original" ideas don't need any help in looking stupid.

You just continue to prove the points I've been making then?

That's fine, you do you

 

[Zieman]

You just continue to prove the points I've been making then?

Nope. I just call a spade a spade when I see it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

But posts that remove stuff from PvPers are totally acceptable? Of which there are a few every week. At the end of the day, they are debates and ideas, which is what I was under the impression thats what these forums are for?

What proposals are you referring to that would remove existing content from players who prefer PvP? Are they accepted by all?

But there is often no discussion regarding the ideas. There are just responses that involve. "That won't work for these reasons. Period" No comprimise, no middle ground, just quick removal of the point.

There is no middle ground in the following examples:

1) remove Solo and Private Groups;
2) Open should be the only mode that affects the BGS;
3) assets should be locked to the mode they were earned in.

For middle ground to be found, the need for change needs to be agreed by both "sides" in the debate.

We ALL paid for the access to all the content. Not just some of you. That means we all get to discuss what could be, or what potential the game might have.

Which existing content are proposals seeking to remove from your preferred gameplay?

Discussion is the operative word. Of which there is often not much of regarding large changes. There is a largely concerted effort to ignore real discussion if it upsets those most well known in the comunity. Though there is very unlikely a coalition of people orchestrating these things, there most definatly is a pecking order on here thats almost unspoken, but expected to be adhered too.

I will not play by those rules on here. If I make a point, I expect a decent discussion regarding it, involving other veiwpoint, other ideas, and eventually a compromise. Not to have my points picked apart, with no real responses other than a list of the reasons why it's not liked, or would'nt work.

Many of the proposals seek an outcome - when that is contested the fallback is usually to attempt to compromise. What is often forgotten is that for a compromise to be reached, each party gives up something - that is rarely the case in such discussions - also the need for change, in and of itself, is not unanimously agreed....

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm a bit lost at the first point there Ziggy.

Simple

I don't demonise players, try to make out that the PvP community knows nothing and are just children. Still I do not enjoy PvP, and find that characterisation of me a little insulting.

As for the division thing, I am very much inclined to agree with you, but a large portion of that division does indeed stem from bitterness regarding playstyles. Not all of it, but certainly a fair amount, or at least as far as I can tell anyways.

Hmm, I'm not sure, I've had abuse from plenty of people in game, and been talked down to a plenty on these forums. Maybe I've just seen a bad group, but it does feel a little like if there was an option, a large group would just have PvP removed entirely. Yeah, unfortunatly it certainly does go both ways. But then that comes back round to my points regarding how people will not make efforts to discuss ideas or points, merely pick the one that suits thier view/playstyle and stick to it like superglue.

Well, the one thing you guys are right about is, PvP is a minority sport. There are plenty more PvEers due to the nature of the game.

If I go by the assumption both groups have an equal percentage of pillocks who stereotype the 'other side' in absolute numbers there will be more PvEers belonging to that group. And those will manifest themselves in a forum, since forums are a perfect medium for division. You post more often when you disagree with someone than you do agreeing with someone.

So yeah, I can see why you would get the impression, but if you think about it, the premise is ludicrous. Because of some way someone plays a game, they have characteristics x, y and z.

 

[Jockey79]

Urrrghh. Well, maybe we can at least all agree this is totally pointless.
I accept defeat.
Forum dads still king of forums.

My point proven.

You cannot have a discussion, because you don't want one.
You're just insulting / trolling, as shown in your post.

 

[Robert Maynard]

There have been proposals for ways that the game could be changed that would offer players who seek PvP a way to play, unaffected by players in other game modes, while affecting a galaxy state, Powerplay, etc..

They usually don't gain traction, among those who prefer PvP, simply because players who don't prefer PvP would be able to continue playing the game, their own way, affecting a galaxy state, Powerplay, etc..

There often seems to be a desire, in proposals to change the modes and/or their effects on the BGS, for players who currently play outwith Open to have no choice but to play in Open.

That's why such proposals don't receive significant support, in my opinion, of course.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Simple

I don't demonise players, try to make out that the PvP community knows nothing and are just children. Still I do not enjoy PvP, and find that characterisation of me a little insulting.


Well, the one thing you guys are right about is, PvP is a minority sport. There are plenty more PvEers due to the nature of the game.

If I go by the assumption both groups have an equal percentage of pillocks who stereotype the 'other side' in absolute numbers there will be more PvEers belonging to that group. And those will manifest themselves in a forum, since forums are a perfect medium for division. You post more often when you disagree with someone than you do agreeing with someone.

So yeah, I can see why you would get the impression, but if you think about it, the premise is ludicrous. Because of some way someone plays a game, they have characteristics x, y and z.

I did'nt classify all though Ziggy, I merely stated some.

Yeah, they are indeed, i'll agree with that, very much so.
And that might be the case, but I often provide things to continue the discusion. Very rarely do I state I dislike something and leave it at that.

Yeah, it is ludicrous to assume that it's always the case. But it is however sometimes the case. In fact, fairly often. Maybe those particular people are just more vocal than others. But it does happen.

A good example of this, is being in the HAZ at some CG's. Somone keeps following me around the RES trying to steal my kills. I eventually get irritated and accept the bounty. I kill them, or chase them out (Which is generally my preffered option), then I recieve a message from said player with the contents of "Why don't you just PvE like everyone else, ****head?! It's a PvE game. Go play Cod", or some such other drivel. It has happened quite a few times in varying situations. So like I say, maybe I've just had a particularly bad run of people.

Then that being said, When I was a little less passive in game, I did also have quite a lot of good dialouge with a fair number of players after I'd fought them, some of which ended up PvPing more often. So yeah, it does occur, just not with constant frequency.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

There have been proposals for ways that the game could be changed that would offer players who seek PvP a way to play, unaffected by players in other game modes, while affecting a galaxy state, Powerplay, etc..

They usually don't gain traction, among those who prefer PvP, simply because players who don't prefer PvP would be able to continue playing the game, their own way, affecting a galaxy state, Powerplay, etc..

There often seems to be a desire, in proposals to change the modes and/or their effects on the BGS, for players who currently play outwith Open to have no choice but to play in Open.

That's why such proposals don't receive significant support, in my opinion, of course.

I see what you are saying. Poweplay is a good example too actually. If it were to be fleshed out a little more. Then I, and probably a fair few others would be less bothered about modes.

Well that is a fairness thing (Although everyone having the same opportunity despite thier chosen mode IS inherently equal), However PmF do have it too easy as far as controlling thier expansion from PG/Solo. Most of the time, it is not a problem, because most PmF are PvE based and have no problem using sai PG/Solo to accomplish thier ends. However should PmF A (A PvE faction), attack PmF B (A PvP faction) from PG/Solo. They are fully hard countering faction B's primary means of defense and making thier entire playstyle obsolete. That I feel is why there is so much discourse about the idea.

What that boils down to, (At least in the case of the BGS), is one group being more than happy to mess with another group's assets in a means they can't be touched, effectively making PvP like the appendix of the BGS. Helpful on occasion, but mostly totally useless.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

See, we're not really agreeing, but still exchanging ideas. We all win at discussion! \o/

I love a happy end.

 

[Jenner]

Settle down, peeps. Handbagging/trolling posts can and will be removed/moderated.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Now the sequence of the posts makes me sound like an idiot.

 

[Jenner]

Now the sequence of the posts makes me sound like an idiot.

Better?

 

[Duc_Mallard]

So... Open mode only yeah

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Better?

People are going to have no idea what I was going on about there.

Yeah, perfect!

 

[Mouse]

So... Open mode only yeah

I'm sorry but Open Only Mode benefits only one type of player, those like you who PVP. Most of us prefer a system that allows different types of play and wouldn't you know it. Elite Dangerous already has that. If you want Open Only, again may I direct your attention to EvE online, or even the still in Alpha Star Citizen.

 

[Duc_Mallard]

No thanks. Open only soz