Modes Idea for game mode resources being non transferable

[TheMegaTurnip]

Again because someone doesn't enjoy or want to participate someone else wants to paint them as "Anti-PVP" which is bull manure. The only thing shown here is YOUR bias in trying to claim Robert is Anti-PvP just because he doesn't like it. You do realize there is a difference in not enjoying it and hating it.

Ok mate, I think I've had enough dialouge with Robert over many more posts than just this one, I'm not having a go, I just find it a little strange.

If you were to read my signature (Below) you would realise that I'm not particularly bias. I do play PvE related activity, moreover, I actually enjoy it.

Let's not get salty now shall we.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

PvP is optional; PvE is not.

We all bought a game where PvP is optional - that some want to change that is obvious - however we all paid the same for the game, why should players who prefer an optional play-style be able to dictate to players who don't?



Looks like into a cul-de-sac, from where I'm sitting.

I never said I had a problem with it..

That's just how it comes across, people who don't "enjoy" PvP, tend to spend an awful lot of time trying to make sure that it either gets further demonised, or continuously tries to make out that the PvP community knows nothing and are just children. Or worse still, try to devalue thier playstyle and make out that one person's choice is less important than the others. (Not saying you are one of the nastier blokes about it, because you're not, but it does come across like you have a little disdain for that playstyle).

I'd like to see a little less division regarding the difference in playstyles, where everyone makes a little more effort to see the merits of both methods of playing the game, instead of the "I don't like it, so it's basically invalid" kind of mentality that gets thrown around an awful lot.

That is why I will always advocate loosing the modes and just going open play. Then everyone is in the same pot and everyone has to work together in a larger capacity to provide feedback to a more efficient standard. I know it was'nt part of the game's original idea, but times change.

Plus there is then the option for real player made content, wars would be bigger, alliances would be more effective, and player made factions would be a far more engaging prospect for most.

It's something that games like VO and EVE do exceedingly well at, providing territory, buisiness dealing, piracy, corporate espionage etc etc. I think ED could benifit massively from taking a little of that and rolling it into the mix, and I really hope that the "Squadrons" update actually does provide something like that. It would'nt benifit any one playstyle either, it would just rquire a little more organisation within the community. (Which quite frankly, is already very well organised), But a living, breathing galaxy, would be so much better for all playstyles, not just a few. Which is something ED and the community should lean towards.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I never said I had a problem with it..

That's just how it comes across, people who don't "enjoy" PvP, tend to spend an awful lot of time trying to make sure that it either gets further demonised, or continuously tries to make out that the PvP community knows nothing and are just children. Or worse still, try to devalue thier playstyle and make out that one person's choice is less important than the others. (Not saying you are one of the nastier blokes about it, because you're not, but it does come across like you have a little disdain for that playstyle).

I'd like to see a little less division regarding the difference in playstyles, where everyone makes a little more effort to see the merits of both methods of playing the game, instead of the "I don't like it, so it's basically invalid" kind of mentality that gets thrown around an awful lot.

When players who prefer PvP come along and "suggest" that existing content is PvP-gated, is it in any way surprising that there's a not-too-enthusiastic reception from players who don't enjoy PvP and knew, when they backed or bought the game, that PvP is optional in this game?

I don't like it and I play games for "fun". I understand completely that a subset of the player-base does enjoy PvP - however their preference does not over-ride mine.

It basically comes down to reactions to the assumptions in proposals like the following:

That is why I will always advocate loosing the modes and just going open play. Then everyone is in the same pot and everyone has to work together in a larger capacity to provide feedback to a more efficient standard. I know it was'nt part of the game's original idea, but times change.

Plus there is then the option for real player made content, wars would be bigger, alliances would be more effective, and player made factions would be a far more engaging prospect for most.

It's something that games like VO and EVE do exceedingly well at, providing territory, buisiness dealing, piracy, corporate espionage etc etc. I think ED could benifit massively from taking a little of that and rolling it into the mix, and I really hope that the "Squadrons" update actually does provide something like that. It would'nt benifit any one playstyle either, it would just rquire a little more organisation within the community. (Which quite frankly, is already very well organised), But a living, breathing galaxy, would be so much better for all playstyles, not just a few. Which is something ED and the community should lean towards.

.... none of us bought EvE-with-cockpits, after all. Don't be surprised if players don't share your opinion.

Some things change - some things remain very much as designed.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

I don't like it and I play games for "fun". I understand completely that a subset of the player-base does enjoy PvP - however their preference does not over-ride mine.

This line right here.

Particularly the end part.

No, they do not override yours. They are equal to yours. As they are also a member of the player base.

 

[Duc_Mallard]

I agree with the turnip.
Also, I haven't been here very long, but very quickly I got seriously frustrated with how quickly open mode discussions and PvP got shut down. People highlighting posts as inappropriate, and trying to get posts moved so they could be buried, all just gaming the discussion so it could be derailed and then being sanctimonious about how to treat others in a video game. Ultimately I just started responding with "carebear" "forum dad's" etc because the FORUM PvE majority are pro fear and anti discussion.
Theres very much a sense of back patting that goes on in these forums and PvE/solo mode gameplay is disproportionately represented.

 

[Robert Maynard]

This line right here.

Particularly the end part.

No, they do not override yours. They are equal to yours. As they are also a member of the player base.

Yet PvP remains an optional extra in the game....

It takes two to tango - so a player who enjoys PvP requires others to engage in it - and cannot force others to engage in it. PvE players don't need other players in the same way.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

I agree with the turnip.
Also, I haven't been here very long, but very quickly I got seriously frustrated with how quickly open mode discussions and PvP got shut down. People highlighting posts as inappropriate, and trying to get posts moved so they could be buried, all just gaming the discussion so it could be derailed and then being sanctimonious about how to treat others in a video game. Ultimately I just started responding with "carebear" "forum dad's" etc because the FORUM PvE majority are pro fear and anti discussion.
Theres very much a sense of back patting that goes on in these forums and PvE/solo mode gameplay is disproportionately represented.

It is immensely frustrating.

It is supposed to be about discussion, not about "It's my way or the highway" attitude that is utterly rampant in the portion of the community who outright dislike PvP.

It honestly seems, from the several thousand (Probably at this point) post's I've read on here, that the PvP community actaully ends up contributing more logical and more useful posts than the subset who refuse to engage in that.

At the end of the day it boils down to the fact that every single PvP orientated player, also plays PvE, such is the nature of the game, but are looked down upon because they take part in something that, yes, is entirely optional, that a large group refer to as "Psychopatic, Sociopathic, Bullying or Anti-social" it is because of this attitude PvPers get shut down just because they PvP, it often does'nt have that much bearing on the points that they make, it often just boild down to "I don't like your playstyle, so everything you suggest in invalidated"

Which personally, I find kind of deppresing.

Yet PvP remains an optional extra in the game....

It takes two to tango - so a player who enjoys PvP requires others to engage in it - and cannot force others to engage in it. PvE players don't need other players in the same way.

It does'nt matter Robert. You have completely missed the point here.

Regardless of if the portion of gameplay is optional, thier points are just as valid as yours, because they are also part of the player base. Thats it. There is no debating that. It's not an opinion, it is a fact my friend.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It does'nt matter Robert. You have completely missed the point here.

Regardless of if the portion of gameplay is optional, thier points are just as valid as yours, because they are also part of the player base. Thats it. There is no debating that. It's not an opinion, it is a fact my friend.

Does the opinion of one player seeking to remove content from another player over-ride the latter's opinion?

If they are equal then it's an impasse - as there is no compromise position between "PvP is optional" and "PvP is not optional"....

.... and every single player bought a game where PvP is optional.

 

[Duc_Mallard]

I'm not asking to remove content from one player. Keep.all.modes just you have different cmdrs for each mode

But I can't argue that banging that drum isn't an effective means of detailing the discussion so GG

 

[Robert Maynard]

I'm not asking to remove content from one player. Keep.all.modes just you have different cmdrs for each mode

But I can't argue that banging that drum isn't an effective means of detailing the discussion so GG

Why should players who don't want to be locked in to Open, i.e. don't enjoy PvP, be denied a game mode with an unlimited population?

 

[Jockey79]

I agree with the turnip.
Also, I haven't been here very long, but very quickly I got seriously frustrated with how quickly open mode discussions and PvP got shut down. People highlighting posts as inappropriate, and trying to get posts moved so they could be buried, all just gaming the discussion so it could be derailed and then being sanctimonious about how to treat others in a video game. Ultimately I just started responding with "carebear" "forum dad's" etc because the FORUM PvE majority are pro fear and anti discussion.
Theres very much a sense of back patting that goes on in these forums and PvE/solo mode gameplay is disproportionately represented.

You've been insulting people since 10 minutes after your account was created (figuratively speaking), so if you're after sympathy or respect - you'll get neither behaving like that.
Resorting to insults, especially on an account less than a month old really does not help you at all. It's quite telling actually about your motivations.

You were sold a game that is 4 years old (if you in fact are a new player and not an alt / troll account) and it has enough public information to know that the mode system was there and people can freely move between the modes.
It was also clear all assets, reputations etc were bound to the character not the mode should you have spent 15 minutes doing research before throwing you money at the game.

You've also ignored that the game is heavily instanced, regardless of the mode system. So you have no guarantee you'll see any particular person / group.
Meaning that if we were both in Open mode and both sitting over Earth, depending how busy the system happens to be. You could be flying in the same space as me and never see me.
So locking my gear to open, wouldn't help you see me or interact with me in any way shape or form.
Same for pads at stations, all someone has to do is log to the menu and back to open to get a new (less busy) instance, then they can dock.
We are also not covering the "Block" feature, which reduces the chances of being instanced with someone or how you own network traffic can mess with instancing.

I've also only seen a "natural" instance of around 20 people some people get a few more.
If you want 30+ you have to start messing with "anchor wings" to force people into the instance.
And I'm not sure if the 60 (ish) hard cap is still in force(?)

So gear locking isn't a viable way to encourage PvP.
And while I once suggested the same thing Turnip did, some PvP'ers went mental at me because they didn't see why they should get mode locked just for playing the game that said they can be "criminals"
Which is a fair point I suppose.

 

[Mouse]

Ok mate, I think I've had enough dialouge with Robert over many more posts than just this one, I'm not having a go, I just find it a little strange.

If you were to read my signature (Below) you would realise that I'm not particularly bias. I do play PvE related activity, moreover, I actually enjoy it.

Let's not get salty now shall we.

No salt, that would be from those who want to "mine it" from others. You have had multiple dialogues with him yet you want to claim he is anti-pvp when he isn't. I've been in many discussions with him as well, and others where I just read and stayed silent. I am glad you are not bias.. please don't claim Robert is.

I agree with the turnip.
Also, I haven't been here very long, but very quickly I got seriously frustrated with how quickly open mode discussions and PvP got shut down. People highlighting posts as inappropriate, and trying to get posts moved so they could be buried, all just gaming the discussion so it could be derailed and then being sanctimonious about how to treat others in a video game. Ultimately I just started responding with "carebear" "forum dad's" etc because the FORUM PvE majority are pro fear and anti discussion.
Theres very much a sense of back patting that goes on in these forums and PvE/solo mode gameplay is disproportionately represented.

You are right YOU haven't been here long, yet it is amazing how quickly you were to insult a lot of people because they do not share your interests in this game. Even here... you cannot help yourself in insulting people, I almost swear that you are not a new account, but instead an alt. Those who are pro-choice vs forced PVP are not being "sanctimonious", nor are we the slurs, "carebear" or "forum dad's" (would be mom for me btw thank you). Nor are we, as you claim, pro fear and anti discussion.

At every turn, in just over 2 weeks, you have been derisive against those who don't play your way. If you want to go down the "fear" line ask 90's how that went... but if you want to try go ahead.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

and have constant attempts to make the people who do like it, less important in the grand scheme of the game...

Also, I haven't been here very long, but very quickly I got seriously frustrated with how quickly open mode discussions and PvP got shut down.

It is immensely frustrating.

It is supposed to be about discussion, not about "It's my way or the highway" attitude that is utterly rampant in the portion of the community who outright dislike PvP.

You guys really have to get over this persecution complex. I know it's romantic to see yourself as a disenfranchised minority, but please, keep it real.

Because when you go:

because the FORUM PvE majority are pro fear and anti discussion.

I really ask myself, do these guys read what they are posting? You are complaining how mean the PVE players are to you, and then label them as pro fear and anti discussion.

And then I read things like:

Theres very much a sense of back patting that goes on in these forums

You mean like the following example?

It honestly seems, from the several thousand (Probably at this point) post's I've read on here, that the PvP community actaully ends up contributing more logical and more useful posts than the subset who refuse to engage in that.

Now here's the shocking truth. You cannot attribute characteristics to someone based on the way that someone prefers to play a game. The PvE / PvP divide in the community is artificial and based on mistaken stereotypes. And the 'stereo' part is so very import in this, since it comes from both sides.

And now for the common ground

it often just boild down to "I don't like your playstyle, so everything you suggest in invalidated"

Which personally, I find kind of deppresing.

Exactly, so decide not to be a part of that narrative.

And

Regardless of if the portion of gameplay is optional, thier points are just as valid as yours, because they are also part of the player base. Thats it. There is no debating that. It's not an opinion, it is a fact my friend.

Amen.

 

[Duc_Mallard]

Urrrghh. Well, maybe we can at least all agree this is totally pointless.
I accept defeat.
Forum dads still king of forums.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

No salt, that would be from those who want to "mine it" from others. You have had multiple dialogues with him yet you want to claim he is anti-pvp when he isn't. I've been in many discussions with him as well, and others where I just read and stayed silent. I am glad you are not bias.. please don't claim Robert is.

I'm just calling it how I see it, I have no issue with him, nor anyone else, but I do have a problem with any suggestions pertaining to PvP to be shot down simply because of them being PvP related. Which is an enourmous problem. And has been done numerous times by Robert and many others. Thankfully Robert is very civil and does discuss things, but the shooting down of ideas is not a particularly nice, nor useful thing.

It's not about seeing the merits of said posts, it's about closing down the discussion as quickly as possible without offering any middle ground or alternative ideas. So on the status quo continues.

In that sense I agree with Duc, there is a great many cases, probably in equal numbers, of PvE players being derisive towards PvP players. In fact, I would feel a little like I'd moved to an alternative dimension if there went one week on these forums where no "Some **hat shot me down for no reason post" containing a million comments about PvP players all being psychopaths or sociopaths.

It's each in equal measure the way I see it. I myself have been talked to in some less than polite manners by people who "Don't approve" of the way I chose to play. This is where the issue stems from. PvP is optional, however that does not mean that thier input or veiws are any less valid, although they are looked down upon as if they are.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Urrrghh. Well, maybe we can at least all agree this is totally pointless.
I accept defeat.
Forum dads still king of forums.

No dude. This isn't about defeat. Debate is not about winning and it's far from pointless.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

You guys really have to get over this persecution complex. I know it's romantic to see yourself as a disenfranchised minority, but please, keep it real.

See I'm not really sure what you're getting at here? I have'nt insulted anyone directly on these forums whatsoever. I tend to be quite passive infact, but I have, on many occasions, been scoffed at for no other reason than I enjoy a bit of PvP.

Had numerous posts where people only say what won't work about the idea without offering any kind of contribution and are simply there to try to make te idea seem idiotic.

So I do understand Duc's frustrations regarding the subject.

Moreover, there is some truth to it though is'nt there? PvPers are looked down upon by the majority of the community. Thats just how people are unfortunatly, but it still does'nt make it acceptable.

 

[Robert Maynard]

.... but I do have a problem with any suggestions pertaining to PvP to be shot down simply because of them being PvP related. Which is an enourmous problem.

That's because the suggestions take existing content away from players who don't enjoy PvP. Is that surprising?

And has been done numerous times by Robert and many others.

.... because I, and others, paid the same for access to all of the content - with no requirement to engage in PvP to access it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

See I'm not really sure what you're getting at here? I have'nt insulted anyone directly on these forums whatsoever. I tend to be quite passive infact, but I have, on many occasions, been scoffed at for no other reason than I enjoy a bit of PvP.

Ok. So I am someone who doesn't enjoy PvP. Here's what you said:
"That's just how it comes across, people who don't "enjoy" PvP, tend to spend an awful lot of time trying to make sure that it either gets further demonised, or continuously tries to make out that the PvP community knows nothing and are just children."

Had numerous posts where people only say what won't work about the idea without offering any kind of contribution and are simply there to try to make te idea seem idiotic.

That sentiment comes from both sides. Which is why I am suggesting the divide is not PvE / PvP, but rather: those who are open to discussion / those who try to shut down discussion.

Moreover, there is some truth to it though isn't there? PvPers are looked down upon by the majority of the community.

I would like to see evidence for "majority", because I believe that to be bollox. Those who voice those sentiments stand out, are more noticeable so I think there is selective observation going on.

Can you honestly tell me there isn't a significant amount of PvPers looking down on PvEers? (significant amount, but a minority still)

Thats just how people are unfortunately, but it still doesn't make it acceptable.

It certainly doesn't.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

That's because the suggestions take existing content away from players who don't enjoy PvP. Is that surprising?



.... because I, and others, paid the same for access to all of the content - with no requirement to engage in PvP to access it.

But posts that remove stuff from PvPers are totally acceptable? Of which there are a few every week. At the end of the day, they are debates and ideas, which is what I was under the impression thats what these forums are for?

But there is often no discussion regarding the ideas. There are just responses that involve. "That won't work for these reasons. Period" No comprimise, no middle ground, just quick removal of the point.

We ALL paid for the access to all the content. Not just some of you. That means we all get to discuss what could be, or what potential the game might have.

Discussion is the operative word. Of which there is often not much of regarding large changes. There is a largely concerted effort to ignore real discussion if it upsets those most well known in the comunity. Though there is very unlikely a coalition of people orchestrating these things, there most definatly is a pecking order on here thats almost unspoken, but expected to be adhered too.

I will not play by those rules on here. If I make a point, I expect a decent discussion regarding it, involving other veiwpoint, other ideas, and eventually a compromise. Not to have my points picked apart, with no real responses other than a list of the reasons why it's not liked, or would'nt work.