Yes. Dismissing the Gold Sellers is a big mistake. Many games have to add layers of difficulty in paying for 'stuff' because they created to simple a way to transfer the base currency. Rather than have to patch over the Gold Sellers schemes, I hope FD learns from the mistakes of those other companies, and created a self policing system to eliminate the risk. And ounce of prevention.....
Yes. Dismissing the Gold Sellers is a big mistake. Many games have to add layers of difficulty in paying for 'stuff' because they created to simple a way to transfer the base currency. Rather than have to patch over the Gold Sellers schemes, I hope FD learns from the mistakes of those other companies, and created a self policing system to eliminate the risk. And ounce of prevention.....
OK, fair enough. Describe what the results will be if we chose to dismiss the gold sellers.
By dismissing the Gold Sellers:
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FD would be opening the door for other organizations to make money off of their work.
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FD would be opening the door for players to advance beyond their actual game experience, angering a large segment of their players.
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FD would be opening their game to the label of Play to Win, if all you have to do to be in top gear is pay for Credits.
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FD would be opening the door to additional costs to develop layers of currencies to correct the issues created by the devalued Credits.
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FD would be opening the door to all of that spam the Gold Sellers would certainly figure out a way to do.
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Is that enough to highlight the dangers?
Let those with no money who want to join a group that has money to fly together and earn cash - which would be shared with Wings. So take a newcomer under your wing and help him/her gain cash by doing missions/bounty hunting etc. It is a way at least, and i wouldnt have any issues with it. It means that if you who have better ships can take on harder missions/bounty's and raise money rather fast for the grouped newcomer.
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gold sellers are a blight on any multiplayer game, If you want to ignore them and institute a credit transfer FD can do that but if they don't police it both constantly and harshly they will in a matter of moments appear everywhere. Now if nobody buys they wouldn't stay, though someone always does and they might decide its too much like hard work grinding credits - except it isn't, the current trade systems just made for a grinder lol.
So risky, very risky IMO. Certainly if I was FD head honcho I wouldn't do it, I've seen too many games turned on their head by gold sellers though so maybe I'm just Jaded and it really wouldn't be a problem.
So risky, very risky IMO. Certainly if I was FD head honcho I wouldn't do it, I've seen too many games turned on their head by gold sellers though so maybe I'm just Jaded and it really wouldn't be a problem.
It is something one has to discuss if the advantages outweight the disadvantages, but i do not see an real way around transfer of currency if one wants to have an working economy in some way.
If for example someone derps on insurance and his friends chip in to bring him back into an decent ship that is building sense of community, it is an advantage for the game itself.
If everything runs over stations and so on (game entities) then it is very hard to implement any sort of player player interaction regarding economy without looking silly.
I mean it is an way, but you will have to bend over in odd angles more and more as more complex the game becomes and if there is the desire for an more complex economical model than the one we have (ok, we do not have one at all right now as far i am concerned, buying selling is not anything like an modell)
If for example someone derps on insurance and his friends chip in to bring him back into an decent ship that is building sense of community, it is an advantage for the game itself.
If everything runs over stations and so on (game entities) then it is very hard to implement any sort of player player interaction regarding economy without looking silly.
I mean it is an way, but you will have to bend over in odd angles more and more as more complex the game becomes and if there is the desire for an more complex economical model than the one we have (ok, we do not have one at all right now as far i am concerned, buying selling is not anything like an modell)
Amen to that.
I'm not convinced of any of that, and I'm not convinced it would negatively impact my play if it did happen. What I think would negatively impact my play is if FD adds complex systems for every financial interaction between players such as you describe for escorts, when the simple, logical system of player transfers as described in the design documents handles them all.
Not being convinced is not a retort, it's a dismissal and a cop out. You asked for what I thought were the risks of open Credit exchange. I produced five examples of the risks I could bring to mind. I met your challenge, I'm not convinced is shrugging your shoulders not a response, you're ducking the issue. That's fine. We probably won't be changing each others minds, but I just thought I'd point that out.
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Going to the same Station avoids none of these situations. The DDF is a spit ball type of description, it comes no where near a workable system. You want what you want, and the Gold Seller doesn't sway you. Fine, but I am not alone in my views.
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It's a troubling issue for a game with a single currency. There are any number of issues that would need to be worked out to protect the game from Sellers, and abuse. I'm afraid there may have to be a few knots. FD will sort it out, and I'll live with the system they develop. But I'm sure someone there is drawing flow charts to settle this matter. Sorting out a closed system to protect the currency should be the goal.
how will ppl sell in game credits, with what global chat can they accomplish this?
considering you can trade cargo you can do it already 'wts 100 million in palladium 100usd'.
this 'omg i don't want any sort of modern feature in this game, keep it in the stone age please' damn luddites. honestly, the only reason ppl don't want credit transfers is because some ppl might sell their in game money, how the fk does that affect you. let me answer that for you, it doesn't in the slightest. the same way those ppl getting 5 bil doesn't affect you, in any meaningful way.
by all means keep the credit transfers out of the game, in the end the lack of basic fundamental features is why this game is so boring and bland in the first place. i'm quite sure ppl just argue against things just to keep it boring and bland. there is no other reason beyond that ' i want this game to stay boring so ill just disagree with anything anyone suggests'.
maybe we should have a online limit just incase someone grinds 10 zillion credits and owns 1000 anacondas because omg woe to thee if that may happen. what if somone plays every single waking second for 10 years in a row they might end up with more credits than everyone else put together. so i advocate a 5 hr limit per person per day so everyone has the same advantage.
no? but why not it makes about as much sense as not having credit transfers over some perceived occurrence.
you know those Chinese gold farmers have to actually buy this game, they won't make a return on their £40 investment even after a week of gameplay (i'd be amazed if they actually found enough ppl to make a return after a couple of months). when credit grinding is all there is to do, why would anyone bother skipping through the only progressive aspect the game has. for theme park mmos i can see it being helpful to some ppl, can't play every day, needs money to run end game, buys 10k off a gold seller. here though, it doesn't make sense. there is nothing beyond the credit grind, there is no other avenue of time consumption, where there is a niche in selling grinding time. that doesn't exist. in the end the game is;
1) massive
2) massive
3) massive
4) has no global chat function
5) so will never have a gold seller problem.
6) even if it did, everyone in china will be trying to sell credits to everyone else in china, because p2p.
7) now thats cleared up any decent reasons why this shouldn't happen?
considering you can trade cargo you can do it already 'wts 100 million in palladium 100usd'.
this 'omg i don't want any sort of modern feature in this game, keep it in the stone age please' damn luddites. honestly, the only reason ppl don't want credit transfers is because some ppl might sell their in game money, how the fk does that affect you. let me answer that for you, it doesn't in the slightest. the same way those ppl getting 5 bil doesn't affect you, in any meaningful way.
by all means keep the credit transfers out of the game, in the end the lack of basic fundamental features is why this game is so boring and bland in the first place. i'm quite sure ppl just argue against things just to keep it boring and bland. there is no other reason beyond that ' i want this game to stay boring so ill just disagree with anything anyone suggests'.
maybe we should have a online limit just incase someone grinds 10 zillion credits and owns 1000 anacondas because omg woe to thee if that may happen. what if somone plays every single waking second for 10 years in a row they might end up with more credits than everyone else put together. so i advocate a 5 hr limit per person per day so everyone has the same advantage.
no? but why not it makes about as much sense as not having credit transfers over some perceived occurrence.
you know those Chinese gold farmers have to actually buy this game, they won't make a return on their £40 investment even after a week of gameplay (i'd be amazed if they actually found enough ppl to make a return after a couple of months). when credit grinding is all there is to do, why would anyone bother skipping through the only progressive aspect the game has. for theme park mmos i can see it being helpful to some ppl, can't play every day, needs money to run end game, buys 10k off a gold seller. here though, it doesn't make sense. there is nothing beyond the credit grind, there is no other avenue of time consumption, where there is a niche in selling grinding time. that doesn't exist. in the end the game is;
1) massive
2) massive
3) massive
4) has no global chat function
5) so will never have a gold seller problem.
6) even if it did, everyone in china will be trying to sell credits to everyone else in china, because p2p.
7) now thats cleared up any decent reasons why this shouldn't happen?
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How much time would it take to transfer 100 million in palladium right now, vs just earning 100 million cr by trading palladium?
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You say "all that" as if it is something negative. I see those as positive features actually promoting gameplay. All the while also preventing gold sellers from abusing the system.
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You're right, it's a dismissal.
You are saying that the currently planned system should not be implemented because it would have negative results. Simply listing what you claim will happen does not convince me.
Don't bother to read what I wrote, just make assumptions and all. I have been saying that trade between Commanders is enviable. I have only been saying that there needs to be a self policing system that protects the single currency, that buys everything in game, from abuse. If it was as easy as what was posted from the DDF, we would have already, that is my view.
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I expect that along with trade there will be a comm system soon enough. Why dismiss a system we don;t have because you want another system we don't have? I have been stressing the opinion that we shouldn't make the same mistakes as have been made by other games. We shouldn't grab at an immediate desire, to the detriment of the long view.
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My catchphrase for this issue: Contracts not convenience. By that I mean, keep the transfer of currency behind a process the game can control, so many of the abuses will be curtailed.
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I feel that the process of collecting up all of those items in space, and the size of cargo a ship can carry will help keep credit sales unprofitable to outsiders. There is a despawn mechanism for cargo jettisoned into space. A professional trader would have to sit for that while a player fills his hold, goes off and sells the stuff and then comes back for more. It would mean the Seller would have to already be a big fish to have a large enough hold to make any money. If this were to change, and Credit exchange can be done, just by parking in the same Station, professional sellers would only have to have a sidewinder.
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A rich player could boost a friend right into an Anaconda, first day, and send them the insurance deductible to boot. This kind of thing would start many more posts just like this one, only in the reverse. See the short list of concerns I made for Zvanya above.
the real question is how much time will it take for someone to grind enough credits worth selling, then flying around the population bubble looking for ppl to manually target and speak to, honestly, credit selling in this game with a transfer feature wouldn't make it much easier you can still spend days flying around without finding anyone. and what you think they have the will power to go around manually convo'ing every pilot they meet, knowing that most of them will probably report them.
i honestly find the ideas of gold selling in elite, ridiculous there is no niche for it, grinding is the entire game why would anyone that is currently enjoying the game pay more money to skip the very thing they are enjoying. there is no second avenue of time consumption like theme park mmos, you have your grinding and your end game, grinding funds the end game progression. but, elites end game is grinding so.. this is where the gold seller tidal wave prediction falls flat. i knew ppl in wow that bought gold to fund their raiding, they had kids, 9-5 jobs, couldn't grind very much, so bought the gold off a 3rd party, so they could do what they wanted to do, is that a problem of the gold seller, not really they are just filling a demand, is that a problem of the developer, yes its called oversight. not planning properly.
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I'm saying that the wishlist you posted from the DDF is incomplete, and I point to the fact that we don;t have that feature as proof. Something so simple and obvious should surely have been included if it was ready for prime time.
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(Do you see, that is a reasoned response. Something you might expect when someone challenges to prove a point.)
No I don't think you understand my point. How long would it take for the buyer of gold to scoop up 100 million's worth of palladium vs earning 100 million by playing?
Also going to ignore your argument that "grinding is fun why wouldn't anyone grind"
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I see no one still wants to acknowledge the fact that Elite is not like any other mmo anyway. Even if gold sellers got into the game it simply doesn't matter. There is no difference in my mind between someone who grinds for hours in Solo with absolutely zero risk and takes all their credits to open then someone who just straight buys their gold.
We have a game where you can become rich in solo quite easily and then put that money into the open world.
As long as credits are shared between solo and open there is no sound reasoning against gold sellers as the economy isn't fair and balanced anyway.
Lastly no one ever wants to admit this but I always argue that gold sellers are good for the game. Yes they are good. The reasoning is pretty simple but kind of takes a bit to explain. I'll try to explain now, please just read with an open mind. You do not have to agree but please just try to see where I am coming from.
Ok, to me the most important thing to any mmo (or multiplayer game) is having an active player base. Yes, fairness and balance is VERY important too BUT w/o an active player base it simply doesn't matter. Now how does gold selling fit into this? I'll tell you.
There are a few types of people who play online mmo's. You have your one group (I think most of us here on the forums fit into this) who just loves the game and is absolutely willing to work their way up past the time sinks to get the stuff they want. These kind of people are honestly hooked to the game and no matter how much we might whine or gripe or swear we will quit if "X" happens the fact is we won't. We all know it, we act like we will quit but we know we won't.
The second group of people are the ones who jump into a game have some fun at first but quickly realize they don't have the mind set to grind their way past time sinks. These types of people WILL quit. Regardless of how we feel about these people they help to keep an active player base and keep the servers full. This is a good thing! Now if you drop some gold sellers in all the sudden you will find you'll keep more people playing the game. YES it will bug the crap out of some of us from the first group. Yes it may not be fair BUT we will have an active player base which is imo the most important aspect of any online game.
The more people who play means we will have more people who stay. The more who stay the more Frontier will have buying their expansions. The more people that buy their expansions means more content for us all.
It's just better for the health of a game to have gold sellers. It simply is.
Yes it may mean you don't get to be king of the mountain b/c you play for 18 hours a day but who cares?! This is Elite, make your own path remember? Play how you want to play and don't worry about the rest. Besides the people who buy their way to the best ships will have no clue what to do with them anyway.
Whew, that was way more then I wanted to type. As I said I understand completely if you disagree and by no means do I think I'm 100% right. This is all simply my opinion and I thank anyone who was willing to read this with an open mind, even if they still think I'm full of crap. Thanks!
We have a game where you can become rich in solo quite easily and then put that money into the open world.
As long as credits are shared between solo and open there is no sound reasoning against gold sellers as the economy isn't fair and balanced anyway.
Lastly no one ever wants to admit this but I always argue that gold sellers are good for the game. Yes they are good. The reasoning is pretty simple but kind of takes a bit to explain. I'll try to explain now, please just read with an open mind. You do not have to agree but please just try to see where I am coming from.
Ok, to me the most important thing to any mmo (or multiplayer game) is having an active player base. Yes, fairness and balance is VERY important too BUT w/o an active player base it simply doesn't matter. Now how does gold selling fit into this? I'll tell you.
There are a few types of people who play online mmo's. You have your one group (I think most of us here on the forums fit into this) who just loves the game and is absolutely willing to work their way up past the time sinks to get the stuff they want. These kind of people are honestly hooked to the game and no matter how much we might whine or gripe or swear we will quit if "X" happens the fact is we won't. We all know it, we act like we will quit but we know we won't.
The second group of people are the ones who jump into a game have some fun at first but quickly realize they don't have the mind set to grind their way past time sinks. These types of people WILL quit. Regardless of how we feel about these people they help to keep an active player base and keep the servers full. This is a good thing! Now if you drop some gold sellers in all the sudden you will find you'll keep more people playing the game. YES it will bug the crap out of some of us from the first group. Yes it may not be fair BUT we will have an active player base which is imo the most important aspect of any online game.
The more people who play means we will have more people who stay. The more who stay the more Frontier will have buying their expansions. The more people that buy their expansions means more content for us all.
It's just better for the health of a game to have gold sellers. It simply is.
Yes it may mean you don't get to be king of the mountain b/c you play for 18 hours a day but who cares?! This is Elite, make your own path remember? Play how you want to play and don't worry about the rest. Besides the people who buy their way to the best ships will have no clue what to do with them anyway.
Whew, that was way more then I wanted to type. As I said I understand completely if you disagree and by no means do I think I'm 100% right. This is all simply my opinion and I thank anyone who was willing to read this with an open mind, even if they still think I'm full of crap. Thanks!