Opinion: 10 LY range for colonization is ridiculously low.

There is sooo many possibilities...
You can:
  • be mentioned in eachs station/system map as an System Architect - fame, fame, fame :D
  • have possibility to name system/stations - because why not?
  • have own contact to recive messages from other players with their requests of how system shoudl be develop - more interaction with other players and some kind of cooperation, or even you can leave the mission for them
  • have a % of every transaction in the system - but we have a lot of credits
  • have discounts in that system for ships / modules / commodity - it's some kind of profit
  • have certain amount of produced commodity in that system every week (like for an example if there are tritium hotspot in the system and you will build some extraction station) - what will create new game loop - you can fly and recieve goods from your systems and sell it somewhere else or use it for PP2.0
  • you can drop your own mission for other players to support your PP2.0 goals or make some lore-based missions (ok, my imagination went too far probably hahaha)
Good ideas, I'm not trying to be selfish with my question, but it would be nice to get something tangible for your effort. It's not like I can brag to someone at my local drinking establishment, "Yup, in my spare time, I build stat systems!" and not get looked at weirdly or met with blank stares!

My Mom, to me, on the eighth time in a month we went to the zoo...
Sounds like Mom likes the zoo more than somebody... Hmmmnnn.... 🧐
 
Good ideas, I'm not trying to be selfish with my question, but it would be nice to get something tangible for your effort. It's not like I can brag to someone at my local drinking establishment, "Yup, in my spare time, I build stat systems!" and not get looked at weirdly or met with blank stares!
...

And my clue is Frontier is really good with tables, stats and databases. Maybe not perfect (who is perfect??), but definitely they love to do big structures of numbers to manage.
 
The existing bubble, or an existing inhabited system?

If it's the latter, there's also Colonia, about 60 systems on the route between Colonia and Sol many in interesting places, Explorers' Anchorage near Sag A*, and a substantial number of settlements in various nebula out to about 7000 LY from the bubble, which could all be their own starting points.



As a side note, one big reason to keep colonisation fairly close to existing settlements is the detention centre. Picture the scene...
- you've colonised a couple of systems in the middle of nowhere
- one day you're running an Odyssey settlement mission in this new bubble and mess it up
- you respawn at Grim Pioneer or Odin's Crag or somewhere similarly distant and your nearest ship has a three-day transfer time and a multi-billion credit transfer cost
(Plenty of the existing locations for spreading colonisation out from will be annoying enough for that sort of incident!)
well technically its 10ly from the contact you got the beacon from. So if a system doesn't have a contact, then that's not a starting place you can use.

Regardless. I still think that's foolish to base it off existing systems. I think the FIRST beacon should be placeable in any uninhabited system anywhere, (barring any uninhabited systems or areas that Fdev might want to exempt or reserve for their own uses.) Then from THAT point, you have to expand via the 10ly bubble mechanic.
 
well technically its 10ly from the contact you got the beacon from. So if a system doesn't have a contact, then that's not a starting place you can use.

Regardless. I still think that's foolish to base it off existing systems. I think the FIRST beacon should be placeable in any uninhabited system anywhere, (barring any uninhabited systems or areas that Fdev might want to exempt or reserve for their own uses.) Then from THAT point, you have to expand via the 10ly bubble mechanic.
That first beacon anywhere then the rules start to apply feels too like a game for my taste, it would be convenient but the arguments would soon start about if I could start this far out why am I now restricted to 10Ly.
 
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That first beacon anywhere then the rules start to apply feels to like a game for my taste, it would be convenient but the arguments would soon start about if I could start this far out why am I now restricted to 10Ly.
Easily explained by making the colony construction ship more important - moving that could be the super expensive (squad/group) thing that takes weeks to arrive and then expanding in 10Ly increments could be the cheaper, more manageable thing if you find a good spot for it, but again this would mean that the core would be the best place to go.

The colony range can't be more than a carrier jump at once tho since you can't colonize unreachable systems anyway. A 500ly range means colonizing up to rackhams peak to see what the closest place you can put down a winery next to it is and some other silly things like that.

The actual argument for shorter range is that daisy chaining to a specific location concentrates players more while a huge range just risks making everyone spread out in a way that makes the galaxy feel less big and less empty.
 
Easily explained by making the colony construction ship more important - moving that could be the super expensive (squad/group) thing that takes weeks to arrive and then expanding in 10Ly increments could be the cheaper, more manageable thing if you find a good spot for it, but again this would mean that the core would be the best place to go.

The colony range can't be more than a carrier jump at once tho since you can't colonize unreachable systems anyway. A 500ly range means colonizing up to rackhams peak to see what the closest place you can put down a winery next to it is and some other silly things like that.

The actual argument for shorter range is that daisy chaining to a specific location concentrates players more while a huge range just risks making everyone spread out in a way that makes the galaxy feel less big and less empty.
To this thought, give unlimited range, but need to constantly refuel the ship, maybe have random materials for each jump needed for "repairs". Adds cost for distance and time for distance.
 
I think distance should be based on cost- so 10LY is 'cheap' while 1000 LY is correspondingly expensive.
Building on that thought, maybe there could be 2 different type of colonization ships: a long range, around 500-1000 ly, and a short range one, of 10-20 ly. We would get a maximum of 1 or 2 long range ships for every minimum of X number of short range ships. Both types of ships should start from an occupied system, so to expand fast outwards, players should cooperate and combine their long range colony ships, create small bubbles to use the minimum X number of short range ships and the circle continues.
 
That first beacon anywhere then the rules start to apply feels to like a game for my taste, it would be convenient but the arguments would soon start about if I could start this far out why am I now restricted to 10Ly.
It's colonization. in the first era of colonization they sailed the oceans, went to far off places and set up shop, then built out from there. You set up for first colony in this far off place, and the second, third and so on because they build a logistic and support network with one another. This is not a hard concept.

There is literally no reason, that they need to impose this limit for the first beacon and thus limit colonization as an extension of the existing bubbles. If CMDRs want to extend the existing bubbles, sure go for it. But the entire feature shouldn't be limited to that. Having it not limited would allow things like the DSSN to actually start taming the "wilds" of deep space, and allow various groups to colonize where they want. And more over, not litter space with daisy chains to get out to where they want. (because you KNOW that's what players will try. They will absolutely try to brute force the system.)
 
Anything further than the Apex flys would require CMDRs to keep it supplied, as NPCs don’t do carrier trading, and I can imagine the salt over the grind to keep a colony going for the rest of the life of the game!

Then how do places like Medusa's Rock and Hillary Depot keep going? Either they have reached a point where they can be self-sufficient, or there is some unseen method by which supplies are reaching them without player intervention. I don't think it's unreasonable for player colonisation to have either or both of those options available to them.
 
It's a shame that Elite doesn't have a functioning supply chain, because then all you had to do is set up shop and start building the necessary components, which could be produced with mined resources to begin with.

Regardless of that though the real problem still is the insistence on BGS/PP Integration which is holding back proper deep space colonisation. I'd be happy to resort to a "boring" BGS set up (a la Colonia Bridge systems) if distances are too large. So what.
 
It's colonization. in the first era of colonization they sailed the oceans, went to far off places and set up shop, then built out from there. You set up for first colony in this far off place, and the second, third and so on because they build a logistic and support network with one another. This is not a hard concept.
It isn’t the concept of colonies spawning a new wave of colonies I had an issue with it was the idea that the first wave colonies would have almost no range limitation but the next would. As I said it feels like something done to appease players not something part of the world of the game.

There is literally no reason, that they need to impose this limit for the first beacon and thus limit colonization as an extension of the existing bubbles. If CMDRs want to extend the existing bubbles, sure go for it. But the entire feature shouldn't be limited to that. Having it not limited would allow things like the DSSN to actually start taming the "wilds" of deep space, and allow various groups to colonize where they want. And more over, not litter space with daisy chains to get out to where they want. (because you KNOW that's what players will try. They will absolutely try to brute force the system.)
But why have limits on subsequent beacons then?
 
Depends on what you consider the first era. Colonisation has been happening as long as humans have existed.

If you’re talking about colonising the Americas, you’ve got to bear in mind that there were already people there and many colonies failed. Thanks Giving is and example of how the natives saved the colonies.

Going to a completely uninhabited system relying on supply lines from thousands of light years away wouldn’t be practical.

10ly is arbitrary, and too low imo, but it should be within a reasonable distance of existing trade lanes as, surely, you want the colony to be self sufficient at some point.

Anything further than the Apex flys would require CMDRs to keep it supplied, as NPCs don’t do carrier trading, and I can imagine the salt over the grind to keep a colony going for the rest of the life of the game!
First one unlimited, subsequent limited to 10LY until all of those are taken, then 20LY until all of those are taken, and so on up to some arbitrary cap? (Capped at no less than 100, of course, can't get to the end of the sparse spiral arms with less.)
 
So my question is... What do I get from this? I spend capital and time to bring up a system, that can and will get taken over... Why? What motivation do I have?
These is a question I raised as well. In the livestream they mention that you “can’t lose the system” but if it’s subject to a hostile takeover via BGS some players might decide the juice ain’t worth the squeeze.

I’m hopeful that the system architects have tools to keep the original colonizing faction in a controlling position. I suggested in a prior post that perhaps architect stations could have a docking permission feature similar to fleet carriers.

Or maybe they will leave this matter to a diplomatic solution. If so, not everyone will be playing nice in the new sandbox.
 
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Whichever way the details turn out, I hope they'll keep a tight lid on this cancer's spreading. Nice idea to let players build something but at the same time outright creepy when you hear where so many seem to want to take it.
That’s probably part of the reason for the 10 LY limit. They don’t want Frankenstein moving at 100 mph until they truly understand what they created.
 
It isn’t the concept of colonies spawning a new wave of colonies I had an issue with it was the idea that the first wave colonies would have almost no range limitation but the next would. As I said it feels like something done to appease players not something part of the world of the game.


But why have limits on subsequent beacons then?
sigh Firstly, it IS a game, and obviously they want this feature to launch well, and there is no sense in imposing an artificial limitation when intuitively the system should allow you to do what you think it should. "Colonize space and build empires." Secondly, people are going to try and brute force the system and create "Colony Inchworms" that will slowly crawl out to where they want to go, and THEN the actual intention of the system people are wanting to do can begin. I say, just go to that part and call it a day. Don't belabor the fun.

To your second point. Infrastructure my dude, no man is an island and no system is self sustaining. One of the endpoints that is being sold here, is that the players are building their own empires. Which is cool. You grow your empire from where you start. Allow the player to plant their flag where they want (barring some exemptions that Fdev can flag in the database as "NoGo" zones.) and allow the player and their group to grow from there. and actually colonize the galaxy. Whether it be "their private corner in the back water of space" or a huge squadron/Player Faction building a minibubble near Sag A. To that low life CMDR building casinos and "girls girls girls" signs flashing near their night clubs. The goal here is to unleash player freedom, not curtail it.

If you want a game design reason, it's to prevent "system squatting". So one or few players can't just "squat" on the well known, choice or key systems with the beacons hundreds or even thousands, or tens of thousands of lightyears apart.

I'm honestly envisioning the system much like fleet carriers where accounts only get ONE "global beacon" much like how you can only have one fleet carrier. And if you want that global beacon back, you got to roll up and dismantle everything, decommission everything (which itself sounds like a process you need to commit to.) Since this is colonization, as in a permanent structure change being put into the game, this SHOULD be something taking with serious consideration, whether a player wants to finance this in the first place, and then deeply consider where they want to plant this. So that alone already filters out 95% of the riffraff.

My worry is this feature will be gimped to try and address this hypothetical "system squatter" concern, that I don't think will actually be the issue they think it is. and more over, I think gimping it this way, will create a NEW problem the "Colony Inchworm" which WILL have an effect on the servers, since people will brute force it, creating a plethora of unnecessary system colonies JUST to get out to where they want.

I've been playing this game 10 years, and honestly I am just tired of Fdev delivering a broken or gimped feature, and they take 2+ years fixing it, if at all, of issues that should have been addressed in the design phase. and some of them simple problems. I just want this work out of the box. So let's avoid the waste of time, and more importantly server resources, as well as it becoming an eyesore, and the "unfun" of it all and
just.... let.... people.... colonize..... where.... they.... want.... on the outset.
 
These is a question I raised as well. In the livestream they mention that you “can’t lose the system” but if it’s subject to a hostile takeover via BGS some players might decide the juice ain’t worth the squeeze.
I'd go on a limb to say the founding faction can't be retreated; it'd make no sense otherwise.

Bear in mind though... there's nothing other players can "take" from you.... any player can (and should) be able to colonise with any faction they like... so even if some other faction takes over the system.. you are still it's architect. And that's going to be a big turnoff for other people who want to expend effort "capturing" colonised systems with other factions... they literally have no handle on the future shape of the system if they do.

Edit: explicitly, control can't be bound to faction ownership of a colonized system, because players don't own factions.
 
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These is a question I raised as well. In the livestream they mention that you “can’t lose the system” but if it’s subject to a hostile takeover via BGS some players might decide the juice ain’t worth the squeeze.

I’m hopeful that the system architects have tools to keep the original colonizing faction in a controlling position. I suggested in a prior post that perhaps architect stations could have a docking permission feature similar to fleet carriers.

Or maybe they will leave this matter to a diplomatic solution. If so, not everyone will be playing nice in the new sandbox.

The first faction in, the one you put in when you set up the system, will probably be counted as a "native" faction, meaning they can't be kicked out. So if someone else wants to push another faction, they can, but they will be vulnerable to being kicked out, unlike the founding faction.

If we are allowed to set up systems further than BGS range, then there will be no chance of that, unless someone sets up another system within BGS range.
 
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