Proposal: alternative to outright removal of ADS instascan & system map minigame for explorers

[Nutter]

+ 1 - Great Idea...

If I could just add one thing? Habitable zones! All the maths is there already! This should include Systems with orbiting bodies that produce enough heat / forces that would allow 'mini' zones as I've tried to show

But with gradient shading like this....

Thoughts?

Nutter

o7

 

[StuartGT]

+ 1 - Great Idea...

If I could just add one thing? Habitable zones! All the maths is there already! This should include Systems with orbiting bodies that produce enough heat / forces that would allow 'mini' zones as I've tried to show

But with gradient shading like this....

Thoughts?

Nutter

o7

Cheers! I mentioned habitable zones in the OP's final paragraph, although I assume it'd need to be a later addition to the system map. Nice mspaint work too

 

[Kaltern]

The 'Goldilocks' zone is something I never considered for some reason.

Does the Stellar Forge take that into consideration, depending on number and types of stars in a system? I'd never really paid attention to that, and I imagine that should be a constant in the galaxy... would definitely make seeking Earth Likes a lot easier if the scanner took this into consideration...

 

[Ziljan]

+ 1 - Great Idea...

If I could just add one thing? Habitable zones! All the maths is there already! This should include Systems with orbiting bodies that produce enough heat / forces that would allow 'mini' zones as I've tried to show



But with gradient shading like this....



Thoughts?

Nutter

o7

Really? You want to remove more guesswork out of the game and increase the level of automated cherry picking? This hab zone range is something that every experienced explorer should know from feel, and is one of the few rewards of having experience.

I can't support this subtraction of features at all.

They're already giving us a range filter and a terraforming signal filter. That's more than enough expedited cherry picking already.

 

[Mengy]

+ 1 - Great Idea...

If I could just add one thing? Habitable zones! All the maths is there already! This should include Systems with orbiting bodies that produce enough heat / forces that would allow 'mini' zones as I've tried to show



But with gradient shading like this....



Thoughts?

Nutter

o7

Yeah, I'd have no problem with this. EDD does this now for me, but I'd rather it be an in game feature.

 

[disorganise]

Apparently this question needs to be repeated:

What would be the point of the energy signal filter or the distance filter under the proposed system of the OP? Currently the function is only to find the location. Everything else is identical to the current vacuous scan mechanic: select > point > wait.

I must be missing something..
The new mechanic gives the detail surface scan, right? So old way takes upwards of a minute since you have to cruise there. New way takes whatever it takes.... 20 secs? Regardless how far away it actually is.
I just don't see them as mutually exclusive....
One of us is missing something and I got no problem admitting it's probably me.

 

[Ziljan]

I must be missing something..
The new mechanic gives the detail surface scan, right? So old way takes upwards of a minute since you have to cruise there. New way takes whatever it takes.... 20 secs? Regardless how far away it actually is.
I just don't see them as mutually exclusive....
One of us is missing something and I got no problem admitting it's probably me.

It's not a question of time, clearly the new method has the potential to be much faster. It's a question of function.

What we know so far: We'll be given two active slider filters: distance & energy. These filters are designed to actively help you locate and resolve unknown targets.

If we know the distance, then this takes all of the mystery and guess work out of the distance filter. We're basically just mentally copying and pasting a number from the system map to the scanning interface. And once use the distance filter, we are also removing any residual guess work from the energy filter because it will remove all energy distribution signal that is not at that distance leaving only one possible answer without any brain work involved at all, just manual cut and paste.

I hope this answers your question and explains how having any distance info completely removes the purpose of both active filters and effectively makes them effectively both passive. like the odious ADS/DSS we have now.

There is a compromise that could work however:

It would have to be necessary to select the object from the "black sphere" system map, or manually center it on a gravity anomaly, and then move the 2 active filters to the correct part of the spectrum (focusing on the right distance, and the right energy) in order to resolve the object. Basically the filter would have to work in reverse. Instead of auto zooming on the object, you'd need to ID its correct signal & distance. Frankly, that's not a terrible idea, but I wonder if the devs have the time needed to switch up their functionality. This would also mean that the map could only reveal the basic structure, but not any actual distances, which is fine because the system map isn't to scale anyway.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I must be missing something..
The new mechanic gives the detail surface scan, right? So old way takes upwards of a minute since you have to cruise there. New way takes whatever it takes.... 20 secs? Regardless how far away it actually is.
I just don't see them as mutually exclusive....
One of us is missing something and I got no problem admitting it's probably me.

I don't consider replacing flying around in a spaceship with moving a cursor on a 3D map to be an improvement to a flying around in spaceships game, even if it makes the process faster.

 

[Ziljan]

I don't consider replacing flying around in a spaceship with moving a cursor on a 3D map to be an improvement to a flying around in spaceships game, even if it makes the process faster.

Yeah, I totally understand wanting to have all of the GUIs in the cockpit rather than having the gameplay happen on a separate interface. If they could move the new active filters and energy signal GUI to the cockpit and let us manually aim at gravity anomalies with the ship, that would be much better imo. Would require a zooming telescope GUI to pop up in the cockpit though, which could be awesome too, but it would be tough to make it fit on the screen properly without letting you crash into stuff from blocking the view. They could use the existing targeting hollows I guess, but they would have to become much better resolution than they are now.

 

[Lestat]

Just going by what they said on the new update. Your idea sounds great. But what about a Fog of war type idea. With the new update coming up. I don't think we will be seeing the planet until we get closer to them.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

+ 1 - Great Idea...

If I could just add one thing? Habitable zones! All the maths is there already! This should include Systems with orbiting bodies that produce enough heat / forces that would allow 'mini' zones as I've tried to show



But with gradient shading like this....



Thoughts?

Nutter

o7

Nice mock-up, Nutter. In line with my Science Module idea, the habitable zone would impact on the percent chances of a planet of a certain size being an Earth-like, a Rocky or a Water World. Many of the ideas in this thread are certainly compromises I could get behind. Just as long as we no longer get fully detailed planet reveals out to effectively infinite range.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Depends if I intend to fully scan every system as I go to. If I can look at the wave forms to get a general overview and I like what I see, then I will start scanning. If I don't like what I see, I will move on to the next system.

As I said, we need to see how it works. I don't mind stuff taking time, as long as I enjoy doing it and find it interesting. At the moment the current mechanics are not interesting, are boring and don't actually give me a sense of discovery and exploration in any shape or form.

If there are more POI on planets and in space then these new mechanics could really shine, also if they intend to add more POI in space and on planets in the futere that they have good mechanics for that, then I see it as a good thing.

But I need to try them out first to see how it goes. I cannot tell from a few screenshots and a bit of written blurb. I need to experience it or have someone show me the experience to get a better angle on whether I like the new system.

As I said it may need to be streamlined if it take too long.

Yep, my biggest issue with the current system, beyond the power of the ADS to literally light up an entire solar system-regardless of size-is the fact that I then have to spend so long doing a Surface Scan.......& there is literally nothing I can do to speed up the process in any way. Just a passive "point, super-cruise & wait". This new mechanic sounds much more engaging to me.

 

[disorganise]

It's not a question of time, clearly the new method has the potential to be much faster. It's a question of function.

What we know so far: We'll be given two active slider filters: distance & energy. These filters are designed to actively help you locate and resolve unknown targets.

If we know the distance, then this takes all of the mystery and guess work out of the distance filter. We're basically just mentally copying and pasting a number from the system map to the scanning interface. And once use the distance filter, we are also removing any residual guess work from the energy filter because it will remove all energy distribution signal that is not at that distance leaving only one possible answer without any brain work involved at all, just manual cut and paste.

I hope this answers your question and explains how having any distance info completely removes the purpose of both active filters and effectively makes them effectively both passive. like the odious ADS/DSS we have now.

There is a compromise that could work however:

OK, gotcha. I missed the distance thing and had emissions in my head. I imagined tweaking to the *mass* (gravitational disturbance) and *energy* or something, rather than distance and energy.

What you're saying is we get the "focal length" from the map then the amount of fine tuning needed to actually get a sharp is vastly reduced, right?

Explains the difference. Thanks.

 

[Ziljan]

OK, gotcha. I missed the distance thing and had emissions in my head. I imagined tweaking to the *mass* (gravitational disturbance) and *energy* or something, rather than distance and energy.

What you're saying is we get the "focal length" from the map then the amount of fine tuning needed to actually get a sharp is vastly reduced, right?

Explains the difference. Thanks.

Yes, if we're given the distance, then the fine tuning of energy filter will be reduced to effectively zero. It's like a magician asking you to "pick a card, any card" and he's only holding one card in his hand.

 

[disorganise]

The system map gives distance from primary, which is useful to determine close orbits. But the map is 2d.
So couldn't this be potentially be resolved by needing to find the system relative coordinates? (position versus distance)
Even knowing a body is 1000ls from the main and another is 2000ls away doesn't tell you if they're 1000 or 3000 (or anything in between) apart at the moment.
We have no system coordinate displayed in cockpit so even pointing at the body doesn't *have* to give anything away.

 

[kofeyh]

I think its important to realise the system map will be reliant on finding the bodies first, is it not? The honk just starts the process. And I reckon people are massively underestimating how long this might take, in any system with more than half a dozen bodies.

We are boxing with shadows, though, as the developer and community team don't seem to have a full picture of how this works and there is a lot of supposition being positioned as likely fact.

I think we all should be smart enough to recognize that Frontier aren't as predictable as assumed, and logic isn't an implicit consideration in various things the developer does.

There is a lot of if-then, however we dont actually have a true understanding of if, so any then will automatically be suspect.

Beta will be massively important and I cannot stress enough, how much feedback will be required to drive solid work at Frontier. They will naturally resist.

Push for greatness. Game deserves it.

 

[Pville_Piper]

It's like a magician asking you to "pick a card, any card" and he's only holding one card in his hand.

The sad thing how many people couldn't make a decision in said circumstance...[where is it]

 

[Ziljan]

The system map gives distance from primary, which is useful to determine close orbits. But the map is 2d.
So couldn't this be potentially be resolved by needing to find the system relative coordinates? (position versus distance)
Even knowing a body is 1000ls from the main and another is 2000ls away doesn't tell you if they're 1000 or 3000 (or anything in between) apart at the moment.
We have no system coordinate displayed in cockpit so even pointing at the body doesn't *have* to give anything away.

You arrive at the main star, so knowing the distance to the main star is the same as knowing the distance to your ship.

 

[Ziljan]

I think its important to realise the system map will be reliant on finding the bodies first, is it not? The honk just starts the process. And I reckon people are massively underestimating how long this might take, in any system with more than half a dozen bodies.

We are boxing with shadows, though, as the developer and community team don't seem to have a full picture of how this works and there is a lot of supposition being positioned as likely fact.

I think we all should be smart enough to recognize that Frontier aren't as predictable as assumed, and logic isn't an implicit consideration in various things the developer does.

There is a lot of if-then, however we dont actually have a true understanding of if, so any then will automatically be suspect.

Beta will be massively important and I cannot stress enough, how much feedback will be required to drive solid work at Frontier. They will naturally resist.

Push for greatness. Game deserves it.

Frontier is very logical and coherent in the design process. Where things fall apart is during the revision process and they listen to community feedback, and then do things like giving the ADS infinite range, or making interdictions impossible to lose, etc.

 

[kofeyh]

Frontier is very logical and coherent in the design process.

I beg to differ. History shows this is not entirely accurate.

Where things fall apart is during the revision process and they listen to community feedback, and then do things like giving the ADS infinite range, or making interdictions impossible to lose, etc.

You are, quite literally, providing community feedback, on the community forums, as a community member. To ask they will do things like make planets black and invisible. And disable filters because they are for casuals/ redundant.

So, either listening is okay, or it's not okay; and accepting feedback (including one's own) can be flawed, regardless of whether or not it is well intentioned. As I am sure some of mine will have been.