Or continue reading yours?
Proposal: alternative to outright removal of ADS instascan & system map minigame for explorers
- Thread starter StuartGT
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- exploration suggestion
You're right of course. I'm being intransigent and stubborn.
It's difficult to accept the return of the grey spheres, seeing as I was vehemently against it for years.
I suspect the end 'compromise' will be the reinstatement of the grey spheres code which I suspect is still present but lying dormant. I'll have no choice to use it if I want to keep playing the game, because it's out of my control what Frontier does, however I don't have to like it. I still think removing the current functionality in favour of what will ultimately prove to be a time-wasting mechanic given that billions of star systems in the ED galaxy really aren't that interesting to begin with, is not a good idea.
players need choices and to have positive and negatives to those choices..
in this case we already have the means to provide choice for the ADS
Basic ADS, uses minimal power, the new mini game and offers increased payouts
Advanced DS, uses more power, works as now but with reduced payouts
increased power usage means either a large powerplant(less jump range) or more heat.
So the player has a choice. more money, longer range but more effort or... less effort, but less money and less range.
in this case we already have the means to provide choice for the ADS
Basic ADS, uses minimal power, the new mini game and offers increased payouts
Advanced DS, uses more power, works as now but with reduced payouts
increased power usage means either a large powerplant(less jump range) or more heat.
So the player has a choice. more money, longer range but more effort or... less effort, but less money and less range.
Or continue reading yours?
My posts just add pleasure and enjoyment to the forums.
Don't worry, me too. Sorry for calling you out on it.
I am pretty sure the grey spheres will not return, since they defy all purpose of the new scanning system as Ziljan pointed out earlier. The question is if another solution can be found to make interesting constellations more readable or if the problem doesn't exist to begin with once we learned more about the new system.
Nobody uses a basic scanner. And since it looks like FDEV already put quite some thought and effort into the new system it's pretty unrealistic that they are going to make it optional.
Haven't read through this thread yet but, on the subject of quickly being able to scan for presence of earth-likes, water worlds, etc, I wrote this in the main exploration thread ..
I'm pretty sure I've heard/seen at least one comment from the dev's that they're aware of the need to ascertain whether the system contains these types of bodies and, even if they don't follow my suggestion above of different scan types, it could well be that the system they have in mind will contain clues (a bit like the planetary wave scanner signals) as to what's in the system.
The other thing I wanted to say is that we could well be misinterpreting how quick and easy it will be to use the new interface. Until we actually get to try it out we can't be certain that the new system won't already give us what's wanted.
I'm pretty sure I've heard/seen at least one comment from the dev's that they're aware of the need to ascertain whether the system contains these types of bodies and, even if they don't follow my suggestion above of different scan types, it could well be that the system they have in mind will contain clues (a bit like the planetary wave scanner signals) as to what's in the system.
The other thing I wanted to say is that we could well be misinterpreting how quick and easy it will be to use the new interface. Until we actually get to try it out we can't be certain that the new system won't already give us what's wanted.
Instead of changing the ADS and DSS, except maybe increased base range, wouldn't it be simpler to just add a new selection of dedicated exploration S, M, L and Huge hardpoint mounted mapping probe lobbers with lightweight engineering options since then you'd have to drop into normal space where you can't be interdicted or crash into stars to use them...
Yeah, the ADS might seem kinda broken but the pit bulls don't seem to wanna let go of it long enough to fix it and my exploration vessels are only equipped with mining and 'science' lasers atm, plenty of space for a new shiny.
Yeah, the ADS might seem kinda broken but the pit bulls don't seem to wanna let go of it long enough to fix it and my exploration vessels are only equipped with mining and 'science' lasers atm, plenty of space for a new shiny.
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That doesn't sound simpler at all and how would explorers out in the black get these modules?
How do they currently buy new shinies? Considering they were probably aware they'd have to come back to the bubble for newly added stuff, before they left...
They don't need to buy new shinies since exploration can be done using an ADS and a DSS. That also happens to be the reason why FDEV doesn't add new modules to exploration but use the existing one.
I'm aware of this, but if you actually read the entire "other" (FDev new wave scanner) thread there's an awful lot of screeching against messing with how the ADS currently works, even if the infinite range has been admitted to be a bit, much.
I have a question; why is the basic scanner never considered a valid option, despite this essentially forcing commanders to go find these planets we're not supposed to see or interact with? Like; why is this fairly simple solution that provides the sense of mystery and wonder of "where is it?" to the masses, elected by any commander who so desires, not just lapped up like candy? Isn't that the point. To once again maintain the mystery?
Yet - few seem to - and even fewer actually say that that has actually improved their time. So, why do we keep saying that's the best thing, when actually few, if anyone does that?
Can I just ask why it is, that a minigame that is basically dependant on how well people can discern signal from noise, is the go-to option? I dunno, but when I think of (and indeed go do) the exploration thing, it is wanting the experience to be about what I am actually seeing and doing, rather than spending quite a bit of time working out if either is even something relevant.
I think there's some great ways mini-games can solve all sorts of interaction options in elite; as a replacement for the very thing it's supposed to support, maybe not so much. Here's the thing, if I can jump into a system, honk, and then say "fascinating" and can break out the scanner at will, based on either hunch or hints. The rare exception, rather than the rule. Then great. Totally on board. Where do I sign up? More ways to see cool stuff and experience things in Elite. That's gotta be good, right?
The mythical "rare and meaningful". Remember that? I do. It was a long time ago, now, though. So maybe few do.
What I am expecting, however, is that if we have to climb the same ladder, every jump; that the honk tells us exactly nothing at all, and we have to use the mini-game. Every system. Every. Single One. Just over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again; that? Gonna go out on a limb and suggest it might get a bit old to have to endlessly press a button to send a mechanical contrivance out, to tell us.
And I, honest, can't tell if this is something we will do as part of periodic investigation, or defacto investigation. As in. You either do this, or you are blind as a brick and half as effective. So if we have to have the minigame, every system, then how is this different to the honk? Put aside the revelations for a moment, and just consider the repetition. How often will it take, how many times will the mini-game being repeated, take, before it's not cool anymore. And just a hinderance.
Because if it's the former, then great. And I'm hoping Beta will help me better understand that. But if this is, ostensibly, required in every system, just to figure out if, out of the very many billions of systems I can visit, might be "the one", much like hunting for a needle that is 3 microns long, in a haystack the size of the ghobi desert, I reckon that will become as hated as "the honk" - and then some.
And I reckon that's the bit Frontier just never quite get; that doing something cool a dozen times is cool. Doing something cool thousands of times, is just less cool. Being, ostensibly forced, do that thing thousands more times, because you have to, or else, will become very less than cool.
The reason people hate the honk, isn't just because it removes some of the mystery (which is bad by the way) it's because it's needed every single time you want to figure out if the place is worth time in. Every. Single. Time. You have to honk, or there is nothing. People use the mega-honk instead, because this means less time doing paperwork, and more time engaging in the actual. It's a necessary evil, in a way.
Things that enhance, yeah, sign me up. But is that the go here? Is it the exception to help enhance the experience, whereby we use this new thing for the exception or is it just endlessly repeated procedural rule, because you have to, just like the honk; commanders climbing ladders, endlessly, just to peer over the fence; 'cause the latter is no less mind-numbing automatic effort than honking.
If we have to use the mini-game, every system, over and over again, is that constructive? Or is it just doing the thing, mindlessly, because you do that or you basically have nothing. I dunno, hey. I honestly can't tell what Frontier are trying to do here. It's like they want us to spend endless time doing anything at all, other than actually engaging with content. Minutia Sim 2018.
It's funny; but I was kinda hoping an empty(ish) universe would just have a bit more life added to it, with a more fleshed out scanning mechanic. I guess I missed the memo. Why add, when you can simply protract or prolong, instead.
--
Look - I don't hate people here, and I don't hate Frontier. I just wonder if people have become so obsessed about the details of how a mechanic works, they haven't actually stopped to ask - why is Frontier doing that - and not actually giving the universe more of a life and soul and something people can actually engage with instead.
Yet - few seem to - and even fewer actually say that that has actually improved their time. So, why do we keep saying that's the best thing, when actually few, if anyone does that?
Can I just ask why it is, that a minigame that is basically dependant on how well people can discern signal from noise, is the go-to option? I dunno, but when I think of (and indeed go do) the exploration thing, it is wanting the experience to be about what I am actually seeing and doing, rather than spending quite a bit of time working out if either is even something relevant.
I think there's some great ways mini-games can solve all sorts of interaction options in elite; as a replacement for the very thing it's supposed to support, maybe not so much. Here's the thing, if I can jump into a system, honk, and then say "fascinating" and can break out the scanner at will, based on either hunch or hints. The rare exception, rather than the rule. Then great. Totally on board. Where do I sign up? More ways to see cool stuff and experience things in Elite. That's gotta be good, right?
The mythical "rare and meaningful". Remember that? I do. It was a long time ago, now, though. So maybe few do.
What I am expecting, however, is that if we have to climb the same ladder, every jump; that the honk tells us exactly nothing at all, and we have to use the mini-game. Every system. Every. Single One. Just over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again; that? Gonna go out on a limb and suggest it might get a bit old to have to endlessly press a button to send a mechanical contrivance out, to tell us.
And I, honest, can't tell if this is something we will do as part of periodic investigation, or defacto investigation. As in. You either do this, or you are blind as a brick and half as effective. So if we have to have the minigame, every system, then how is this different to the honk? Put aside the revelations for a moment, and just consider the repetition. How often will it take, how many times will the mini-game being repeated, take, before it's not cool anymore. And just a hinderance.
Because if it's the former, then great. And I'm hoping Beta will help me better understand that. But if this is, ostensibly, required in every system, just to figure out if, out of the very many billions of systems I can visit, might be "the one", much like hunting for a needle that is 3 microns long, in a haystack the size of the ghobi desert, I reckon that will become as hated as "the honk" - and then some.
And I reckon that's the bit Frontier just never quite get; that doing something cool a dozen times is cool. Doing something cool thousands of times, is just less cool. Being, ostensibly forced, do that thing thousands more times, because you have to, or else, will become very less than cool.
The reason people hate the honk, isn't just because it removes some of the mystery (which is bad by the way) it's because it's needed every single time you want to figure out if the place is worth time in. Every. Single. Time. You have to honk, or there is nothing. People use the mega-honk instead, because this means less time doing paperwork, and more time engaging in the actual. It's a necessary evil, in a way.
Things that enhance, yeah, sign me up. But is that the go here? Is it the exception to help enhance the experience, whereby we use this new thing for the exception or is it just endlessly repeated procedural rule, because you have to, just like the honk; commanders climbing ladders, endlessly, just to peer over the fence; 'cause the latter is no less mind-numbing automatic effort than honking.
If we have to use the mini-game, every system, over and over again, is that constructive? Or is it just doing the thing, mindlessly, because you do that or you basically have nothing. I dunno, hey. I honestly can't tell what Frontier are trying to do here. It's like they want us to spend endless time doing anything at all, other than actually engaging with content. Minutia Sim 2018.
It's funny; but I was kinda hoping an empty(ish) universe would just have a bit more life added to it, with a more fleshed out scanning mechanic. I guess I missed the memo. Why add, when you can simply protract or prolong, instead.
--
Look - I don't hate people here, and I don't hate Frontier. I just wonder if people have become so obsessed about the details of how a mechanic works, they haven't actually stopped to ask - why is Frontier doing that - and not actually giving the universe more of a life and soul and something people can actually engage with instead.
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Not anywhere near as idiotic as Honk Here you go.
That's not a mechanic it's a press to win button.
So what? As long as this game exists there will be screeching. If you take a look at the proposal and screenshots provided by FDEV you can see that a lot of thought and effort went into it. Do you believe they are going to scrap all their work just because some people want to keep the infinite honk? I absolutely can't see that happen.
Please babes, no one is talking about scrapping all their work.
In fact, in this very thread people have been discussing ideas that will work well with the new mechanic.
Yeah, but have you ever tried taking toys away from a four year old?
Much easier to give them a new one, and it didn't seem that difficult to add a bunch of guardian weapons. Why not just add a range of mapping probe lobbers to go on a hardpoint your typical exploration vessel probably isn't using anyway cos, jump range...
Sorry but keeping the current ADS and DSS scanner exactly as they are but just adding probes as new modules to find planetary POIs is exactly like scrapping all their work. And it doesn't make much sense to send explorers back home when a better proposal already exists.
Our little discussion is about this post here:
Almost everyday and you can do it very easily if you give him/her another better toy instead.