Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

[Nikephorus Phocas]

The consent argument is outright stupid. I wish it would stop being used since its connoctations are in line with a 4 letter R word.

Play the way you like as long as it's within the confines with how I like to play.

 

[Deleted member 121570]

Unless I'm playing a game where PVP is explicitly part and parcel of its intended design?

I mean, we've been round and round about this.

Some folks simply cannon countenance the notion of any kind of PVP except mutually agreed upon engagements being "valid," but unfortunately, this is not something that FDev have chosen to build their game around.

Instead, we have a game where you can be engaged in PVP anywhere, anytime, for any or no reason, yadda yadda. We've all heard it before, I know.

So... within that context, how is offering the friend request somehow beyond the pale? In a game where random PVP can and does happen all the time, if that's "the game", how is it actually bad?

Maybe instead of fostering a culture of entitled outrage at the notion of PVP happening in the PVP mode of the game, we can try something different? Maybe we can accept that it's part of the fun of the game, and embrace it as such?

This is where I'm coming from. I already know plenty of people disagree, as is their right.

I think you're just babbling stuff mostly now and inventing reasons to outrage yourself to feel righteous. I'm not talking about PvP, nor any of the multiple other things the game is designed around.

It's about you, making someone else's ship go boom as a conversation starter about how you can help them learn to not go boom. Not some other player.

I can only figure you're going for comic effect at this stage. Either that or you're secretly just looking for players to block you. In fairness, that'd probably help them too.

 

[Riverside]

The consent argument is outright stupid. I wish it would stop being used since its connoctations are in line with a 4 letter R word.

Play the way you like as long as it's within the confines with how I like to play.

Consent is not something that is a part of gaming, it is not part of the game design. The consequences of non-consensual acts are not usually very harsh in a game though, although some may takes things way further than others & while arguably they shouldn't, that's not something you control.

You only control you.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

So one of my hobbies - one that's gotten short shrift due to recent events - is tabletop miniatures gaming. I particularly love games involving miniature planes, like Wings of Glory, X-Wing and the less well-known Battlestar Galactica Starship Battles (which features full FA off maneuvering and is quite cool!). Aircraft and gaming are two real lifelong passions of mine.

Anyways, in tabletop gaming, you and your opponent(s) setup across the table from one another. You shake hands and wish each other a good game. You then proceed to destroy one another to the best of your abilities. Afterwards, in almost all cases, you again shake hands and say good game.

I need to make it clear: I do not "immerse" myself so far into my "role" in a video game that it becomes "me." I'm still just a dude sitting at his computer, playing a game, in much the same way as when I'm sitting across a table from someone in person.

Small world, I too play Wings of Glory (actually Wings of War; it's been a while) X-Wing, Battlefleet Gothic before that and tried to get into Dropfleet Commander, but it kind of died before I finished my UCM. Started with Space Crusade way back but I tend towards historicals now, Mostly Warlord Games stuff from Hail Caesar to Bolt Action.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Removing Open would completely eliminate the problems raised in this thread. The game, played with like minded friends, works just fine.

There's probably some downside I'm not considering...

I really like open as it is, it just needs tweaking, but it will never be perfectl

 

[Brrokk]

...And your point is?

That it's "not nice" to blow up other players?

I've asked you before, and you didn't reply, and maybe won't know, but what is holding you back from simply stating that you are completely not OK with any PVP except and unless it is agreed upon ahead of time? That this is the only "valid" PVP for you?

Because that's the only thing I can really take away from your statements.

Of course, if that's not what you mean, please feel free to explain it like I'm 5 to me. I probably need it laid out that simply or my tiny ganker brain will miss it. Again.

The point is that, whereas you've been describing how you came to ED for the exciting 6DoF FA-off combat against skilled opponents, the ganking fraternity you've fallen in with don't want that. They just like blowing up unsuspecting newbies in weak ships, and they've chosen Deciat so that's what they get.

I'm prepared to accept what you've written about your motivations, but I'm hoping you'll now realise that the activity there isn't what you thought.

I also continue to be surprised that the "proper" PvP community won't condemn this rubbish and dissociate themselves from it.

 

[thistle]

I think you're just babbling stuff mostly now and inventing reasons to outrage yourself to feel righteous. I'm not talking about PvP, nor any of the multiple other things the game is designed around.

It's about you, making someone else's ship go boom as a conversation starter about how you can help them learn to not go boom. Not some other player.

I can only figure you're going for comic effect at this stage. Either that or you're secretly just looking for players to block you. In fairness, that'd probably help them too.

Hey, someone should start a thread :
Question for Gankers who don't like people responding to their thread seeking responses... help me understand

 

[Ian Skippy]

...And your point is?

sigh

You claim you didn't "fully know" something. I explained it, so now you do fully know. That is all there is to it. Anyway, this is a very, very weird reply to a simple explanation of why Deciat is that hotspot. A normal response would have been:"Ah, thanks for the information." Not:"wHy u hAtE pVP sO mUcH!!!!! "

The other questions have been answered with a very simple two-lettered word. I am afraid I cannot simplify the word "No" any further.

 

[ACowForAllSeasons]

It's about you, making someone else's ship go boom as a conversation starter about how you can help them learn to not go boom. Not some other player.

The crux of the argument here appears to be that ganking is counter productive to engagement and conversation. Unfortunately for you guys this isn't actually true. Sure, on average the success rate that we strike up a conversation and make a friend is around 10%. When you apply that against the sheer scale of interactions gankers get, you end up with a vibrant and growing community. We spend most of our game time actively hunting for other CMDRs. And not just in the hot spots you think you know. The Galactic Gank Initiative discord has continually grown since it was originally created to host Distant Ganks 2. Dozens of individual groups have formed within that larger community. When hundreds of gankers are providing emergent experiences to thousands of players, across the entire world, we do successfully sustain and grow our communities. We do so at a rate that's virtually unequaled to any individual group just by sheer numbers. And it's great. Someone with the slightest hint of git gud attitude is openly embraced within our community - D'anque being one of our most vocal examples.

 

[Danquememe]

I think you're just babbling stuff mostly now and inventing reasons to outrage yourself to feel righteous. I'm not talking about PvP, nor any of the multiple other things the game is designed around.

It's about you, making someone else's ship go boom as a conversation starter about how you can help them learn to not go boom. Not some other player.

I can only figure you're going for comic effect at this stage. Either that or you're secretly just looking for players to block you. In fairness, that'd probably help them too.

Outrage? Righteous? Over a forum post? Hah. Now you're playing the kidder!

So what I'm hearing from you and Mr Skippy is that I shouldn't bother sending friend requests, if I'm going to be a ganker. It's simply not done.

That's my takeaway. Just "don't bother," be properly evil (as was defined above) and get on with it. Expect everyone to hate you, and so forth, because that's how to play that role.

How about... no?

It turns out I have in fact had a number of friend requests accepted, and receive more on a daily basis - even when I'm offline! There have been posts in this very thread saying how its contents have helped them see gankers in a little different light.

I think I'll ignore these admonitions and stick to what I've been doing, it seems to be working out genuinely great for me.

 

[ACowForAllSeasons]

The point is that, whereas you've been describing how you came to ED for the exciting 6DoF FA-off combat against skilled opponents, the ganking fraternity you've fallen in with don't want that. They just like blowing up unsuspecting newbies in weak ships, and they've chosen Deciat so that's what they get.

I'm prepared to accept what you've written about your motivations, but I'm hoping you'll now realise that the activity there isn't what you thought.

I also continue to be surprised that the "proper" PvP community won't condemn this rubbish and dissociate themselves from it.

Yeah, you're not qualified to speak about the ganking community because you're not a part of it. Period. Also a sizeable chunk of the entire PVP community is gankers and the ones who aren't are best described as gank neutral.

 

[Ian Skippy]

The point is that, whereas you've been describing how you came to ED for the exciting 6DoF FA-off combat against skilled opponents, the ganking fraternity you've fallen in with don't want that. They just like blowing up unsuspecting newbies in weak ships, and they've chosen Deciat so that's what they get.

I'm prepared to accept what you've written about your motivations, but I'm hoping you'll now realise that the activity there isn't what you thought.

I thought he dropped the "I am after 6DoF FA-off combat against skilled opponents" argument a bunch of pages ago already, is that pretense back on the menu already?

I also continue to be surprised that the "proper" PvP community won't condemn this rubbish and dissociate themselves from it.

Honestly, most simply don't concern themselves with it. Just like if IRL a white dude is a knobhead I don't dissociate myself from it in public just because I can be grouped-in with them by others. I mean, a bunch of people organizing fights in Carcosa really should not have to dissociate themselves from what some purple-haired attention-seekers are doing 20k LY away. Clowns are gonna clown, ya know?

Anyway, I've almost arrived at Nevis Island. Nice clear weather, so lets take care of this landing first.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Yeah, you're not qualified to speak about the ganking community because you're not a part of it. Period. Also a sizeable chunk of the entire PVP community is gankers and the ones who aren't are best described as gank neutral.

In that case you might want to take the discussion back to Discord.

 

[Brrokk]

Yeah, you're not qualified to speak about the ganking community because you're not a part of it.
...

Rubbish.

...
Also a sizeable chunk of the entire PVP community is gankers and the ones who aren't are best described as gank neutral.

I hope that's not true but if it is, it explains the silence.

 

[ACowForAllSeasons]

Rubbish.


I hope that's not true but if it is, it explains the silence.

No rubbish required. It's why you aren't qualified to speak about what the ganker community as a whole wants, or what we're motivated by. You hope it isn't true, but hope in one hand and well... you know the rest. Lots of people from the outside trying to peer in our grubby windows make many assumptions that are just laughably untrue.

 

[Danquememe]

Hey, someone should start a thread :
Question for Gankers who don't like people responding to their thread seeking responses... help me understand

Who is saying they don't like it? I'm genuinely enjoying each and every response.

We are in the heart of the matter here, the conflict that lies at the core of Open. We've discussed it at length prior to the thread's recent turn, and the fundamental positions are pretty clear.

I don't begrudge your or anyone else's contributions here; I welcome them. I enjoy discussing these subjects and trying to get to mutual understanding, if not acceptance, of each other's positions.

Sometimes it is hard for me to suss out exactly what it is that someone is saying, but I'm quite happy to admit when I don't follow, and ask for clarification.

Please, by all means, proceed. I am not here to gatekeep, I am here to learn and to discuss.

 

[Deleted member 121570]

The crux of the argument here appears to be that ganking is counter productive to engagement and conversation. Unfortunately for you guys this isn't actually true. Sure, on average the success rate that we strike up a conversation and make a friend is around 10%.

So, that's a 90% fail rate? That seems pretty counter productive to me.
Who are "you guys"?

When you apply that against the sheer scale of interactions gankers get, you end up with a vibrant and growing community. We spend most of our game time actively hunting for other CMDRs. And not just in the hot spots you think you know.

Ok. You have fun Lots of folks have fun too doing different things. That's good too!

The Galactic Gank Initiative discord has continually grown since it was originally created to host Distant Ganks 2. Dozens of individual groups have formed within that larger community. When hundreds of gankers are providing emergent experiences to thousands of players, across the entire world, we do successfully sustain and grow our communities. We do so at a rate that's virtually unequaled to any individual group just by sheer numbers.

Really? Is that including stuff like DSSA, Fleetcom, DW2, cos they had a lot of signups, pretty quick...
I could be wrong though.

Someone with the slightest hint of git gud attitude is openly embraced within our community

It's good to know you're so open and inclusive. I almost feel bad that I'm not much interested in getting gud at ganking specifically, but I'll stick to gitting gud at other stuff.

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

No rubbish required. It's why you aren't qualified to speak about what the ganker community as a whole wants, or what we're motivated by. You hope it isn't true, but hope in one hand and well... you know the rest. Lots of people from the outside trying to peer in our grubby windows make many assumptions that are just laughably untrue.

I thought the windows were adequately clean? I have seen zero 'cryptic' indications that the gankers are anything but what they claim to be...In otherwords fairly transparent to include their motivations. Of course not one person can speak to the entireity of ganking community. Some out there do enjoy destroying any and everything and have no remorse while some do and actually have a set of standards. If and when I start the actual ganking process for me it will be about the hunt. I have let go or not pursued some that have no shields or weapons. No sport and therein lies my motivation. That and what's best in life. That is crushing my enemies, seeing them driven before me and hearing the lamentations of their ugly FDev created women.

 

[Danquememe]

The other questions have been answered with a very simple two-lettered word. I am afraid I cannot simplify the word "No" any further.

Wait - so you do think it's OK to engage in "not agreed upon ahead of time" PVP?

Oh - and in regards to another reply - you probably missed it, but yes, I did some really lovely arranged PVP yesterday against very talented opponents. I lost terribly, but I learned a lot.

 

[Deleted member 121570]

So what I'm hearing from you and Mr Skippy is that I shouldn't bother sending friend requests, if I'm going to be a ganker. It's simply not done.

That's not what I said btw. I said your strategy seemed flawed if you were looking to help folks, given most won't want that help after you've made em go boom.
That's what I mean by you making up stuff.

I have a better idea that might help them more. Pretty revolutionary, but uh...don't kill em?

I'm pretty sure that you could achieve all you intend to in your 'help' just by sending that friend request without the whole 'death' thing getting in the way, and talking to em and sharing what ya got.

That's just one suggested alternative. You might think up others