The Quest To Find Raxxla

Louis Calvert

Louis Calvert
Pyroboros said:
View attachment 336245View attachment 336246


They really look alike.
It's not like it is a trivial task to render/generate a Planet in ED.
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I totally agree. Below is everything I have, I'd love if it we can go Mythbusters on this one :)

Note: these are not all planets, I've been trying to collect evidence of anything weird in witchspace. Again, the goal here is prove/disprove. I've only collected two confirmed planets, plus now the anecdotal evidence of three more (two you've seen here in this thread).

The below from my notepad, I've not got any real thoughts other than cataloguing them so far, make of them what you will. I'd love ideas and help on this. @Yuki Estelle (Ithink that's right?) and @MrShinyTorterra and @Chaparral was also interested in Witchspace ideas.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IhV27I23GM

Hypersapce jump tunnels goes weird...long-green

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v8_12P_im4

Same as above, different person.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtCAlyPAQc0

Same as above

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWcuXPPs744

Same as above

Note: Can't find any of these bug reported?? Doesn't look the same as a braben tunnel or other jump issue? something new? bug??
Note: contacted Bro Jamgles from 1st vid to see what he was doing at the time, no reply.
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greenglow discussion - green witchspace tunnel connection??!
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-8923795

Note: investigation fizzled out, but they focused only on the sol connection? bug?
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Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RVhArLVrlQ

Really long weird jump - PLANET!

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkhwmH1GY-k

FC sees PLANET in Witchspace and ends up off course (Debunked Misjump, the destination name is weird, the system has 2 names in Galmap)
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https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/cg-predictions.556536/post-9925261
Report of "hyperspace anomaly" bug?

Repeatable? note: Tried jumping into high-carrier system areas, couldn't replicate the bug.
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Martha's Pulsar - 2 stars occupying almost the same place, jumps betweem them are weird
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe2W1DBQLzo


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https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...eries-thread-9-the-canonn.300054/post-4987591
Changes in Witchspace tunnels?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-formidine-rift-mystery-part-4.324796/post-5078256
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Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWXrbDZxT0Y

UFO-light in witchspace?

Note: Reflection? graphics bug? can't find any other reports, can't find a way to replicate?
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"Green tunnels" are not a known bug (not in the bug reports system, nothing in Fdev patch notes)
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What does an actual witchspace bug look like???

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajytHoaK_o8

This is a typical lag/dc/network error

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy1aH_WRa04

Braben blue tunnel

jump disconnect, this is what happens:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-8993366

Note: have experienced many witchspace connection bugs myself. long tunnels are not significant. CTD results from a hard disconnect, not significant. Can't replicate green tunnel??
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"could it be in hyperspace"
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-9920307

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-9297146
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connections:
Jaques?? Antares? Halsey? - all misjumps/jumps gone bad. Are there others?
Were these clues to consider witchspace?

How did Jaques jump 20k ly?? He was an explorer and came back to the bubble before making his last jump, heavily modified his station, how??... Jaques station randomly placed? why would it be there specifically? signficant?
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Older Witchspace version for comparison:
Beta 3 demo
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuDzWswfDnE


Alpha 4 witchspace
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIPVegyKksI
 

John Stoutbeard

John Stoutbeard
Too many different variants to really conclude.
I see some
  • "timeouts to the backend, waiting for the new system, so we're just going to leave you here in witchspace until the server can respond" kind of issue.
  • "entering system, but backend didn't deliver all the details yet, so the client will spend some more time at the rendering/init part where you land at the star" kind of delay.
The ED client is kind of robust in these situations, it will wait and wait for the backend (and internet) to provide the data. It may never give up, this is why you sometimes have to kill the game.

However, I can not see how a full planet (it's a complex model, not just a simple texture) is rendered. It can be a bug, adress issue / reference issue.
The clue to being a bug is that it's "not the same planet twice", but this could also be explained with different versions of ED.
I'd defintively like to see someone reproducing this 'planet' on demand (same pilot, same ship, same location).

I work (NOT in Frontier ofc) with client/frontend/api/backend & infrastructure & software - but not with Graphics, so I can't be sure how such a rendering issue would happen otherwise
 
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Louis Calvert

Louis Calvert
John [Panzertard] Stoutbeard said:
Too many different variants to really conclude.
I see some
  • "timeouts to the backend, waiting for the new system, so we're just going to leave you here in witchspace until the server can respond" kind of issue.
  • "entering system, but backend didn't deliver all the details yet, so the client will spend some more time at the rendering/init part where you land at the star" kind of delay.
The ED client is kind of robust in these situations, it will wait and wait for the backend (and internet) to provide the data. It may never give up, this is why you sometimes have to kill the game.

However, I can not see how a full planet (it's a complex model, not just a simple texture) is rendered. It can be a bug, adress issue / reference issue.
The clue to being a bug is that it's "not the same planet twice", but this could also be explained with different versions of ED.

I work (NOT in Frontier ofc) with client/frontend/api/backend & infrastructure & software - but not with Graphics, so I can't be sure how such a rendering issue would happen otherwise
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Good notes :) That's why I'm trying to debunk the actual bugs and see what's left (if anything).

Sadly there seems to be a distinct lack of actual bug reporting (ofc, that would be too easy!). Would be nice if we could just ask Fdev which of these are bugs!

The two planet videos we have are from before and after they changed planet gen tech - so... might be the same planet, might not. And ofc brownish planets are common - but, the fact they're both brownish planets as opposed to say, one an ELW or gas giant, or any other body... ?

Sample size of 2 is the problem here :(

If the planet definitely wasn't a bug (just a thought experiment) - what would be the next steps?
 

John Stoutbeard

John Stoutbeard
Sunyavadin said:
The difficulty is in knowing what to attempt to reproduce in order to try and get this outcome.
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Yep, agree.

But I would think the following could help eliminate some issues.
  • See if we can deduct the places / locations / directions the jumps happened.
  • Repeat, many times.

Have Nvidia Shadowplay recoding or OBS running at any given time. And:
- Avoid Open, avoid Wings; it's may introduce extra network polling, friendlist / instancing network requests, which can cause issues on its own.
 

Louis Calvert

Louis Calvert
John [Panzertard] Stoutbeard said:
Yep, agree.

But I would think the following could help eliminate some issues.
  • See if we can deduct the places / locations / directions the jumps happened.
  • Repeat, many times.

Have Nvidia Shadowplay recoding or OBS running at any given time. And:
- Avoid Open, avoid Wings; it's may introduce extra network polling, friendlist / instancing network requests, which can cause issues on its own.
Click to expand...
Brilliant, I like it when we have a plan.

CMDR Red Borg's FC: unknown location, jumping to Delkar (Anamundi).
  • Searching for Anamundi on Galmap takes you to Delkar, I assume this is a naming bug, but we should confirm that.
  • I don't know anything about carriers so can't tell what type etc.
Borg might be up for talking about it? we can at least get carrier model and maybe he remembers where he was jumping from? It was only 6 months ago, he might be active.

Hollow-xiii video: Burke Horizons, Arinack, Jumping to: Tascheter Sector FM-M a7-1
  • He's in a Fed corvette
  • 100% hull 100% shield, pips to engines.
  • Crest on the front looks like he's at least Elite (can't quite tell).
  • Just launched from settlement and aimed directly at the target system, presumably jumps just after the mass lock.
 

Louis Calvert

Louis Calvert
Does anyone know why Anamundi seems to be renamed Delkar? is this common?

1670352445818.png

1670352488541.png


For example Delphi was renamed from Pleiades Sector IR-W d1-55, both names still work in Galmap, but you don't see the same format of name as with Delkar | Anamundi:

1670352629557.png

1670352640973.png
 

John Stoutbeard

John Stoutbeard
Louis Calvert said:
Does anyone know why Anamundi seems to be renamed Delkar? is this common?

View attachment 336272
View attachment 336273

For example Delphi was renamed from Pleiades Sector IR-W d1-55, both names still work in Galmap, but you don't see the same format of name as with Delkar | Anamundi:

View attachment 336274
View attachment 336275
Click to expand...
Makes sense, yes, some renamed system appear to be searchable by both names.
That clears the mystery about the system-name confusion.
 

SpocksOddSocks

SpocksOddSocks
Louis Calvert said:
Does anyone know why Anamundi seems to be renamed Delkar? is this common?

View attachment 336272
View attachment 336273

For example Delphi was renamed from Pleiades Sector IR-W d1-55, both names still work in Galmap, but you don't see the same format of name as with Delkar | Anamundi:

View attachment 336274
View attachment 336275
Click to expand...
Anamundi is the name of a moon in that system. Searches for named planets/moons in the galaxy map will give you results for the systems they are in.
 

Jorki Rasalas

Jorki Rasalas
I’m definitely no graphics expert, but are we sure this phantom planet isn’t just another example of a graphics glitch, like the green glow that I reported & which turned out to be slow clearout of the colour lookup table? It seems to me that the timing has some similarity. Is it a planet visible at the start of the jump that slowly fades out?
 

Frankymole

Frankymole
Jorki Rasalas said:
I’m definitely no graphics expert, but are we sure this phantom planet isn’t just another example of a graphics glitch, like the green glow that I reported & which turned out to be slow clearout of the colour lookup table? It seems to me that the timing has some similarity. Is it a planet visible at the start of the jump that slowly fades out?
Click to expand...
The one you get at the very start of jump is a glitch. It's just the planet you're nearest to (e.g. if high waking from outside a station in orbit around a planet). Though it can appear in front of you even if it's actually behind or to one side when you initiate the jump. Nothing remarkable, though you see newbie streamers sometimes react to it with amazement.
 

Pyroboros

Pyroboros
Jorki Rasalas said:
I’m definitely no graphics expert, but are we sure this phantom planet isn’t just another example of a graphics glitch, like the green glow that I reported & which turned out to be slow clearout of the colour lookup table? It seems to me that the timing has some similarity. Is it a planet visible at the start of the jump that slowly fades out?
Click to expand...
It sure may be just a bug/glitch. But twice a similar Planet? Not to mention that clearly visible. the chance for it not to be just a glitch are pretty high. And i think it woth futher investigation. Dedicated all Weekend to just that. canceled just everything :)
 

Louis Calvert

Louis Calvert
I have an idea on how we might debunk this.

If we can find just one more video example that matches the appearance of either of the two videos we have* that's either:

a - a brown planet.
b - any other planet at all.

If a) then that's three separate times we see a similar planet, and no counter-examples.
If b) then it's more likely to be a glitch that's pulling random planet models in, brown planets are common, but if it's random or based on where someone jumps from (like it's mirroring the nearest planet) then there will be examples of non-brown planets.

c - ask Fdev somehow for a straight answer. Got to include this one.

I think finding three separate videos of a similar brown planet in Witchspace would be good enough for me to think "Yeah, this is worth more investigating", a single example of any other planet type will be enough to disprove that this is special (even if it's not a bug).

What do y'all think?


*- i.e. there are some 'witchspace bug' videos I've seen that is clearly a bug or glitch, like one where the surface of the plant the CMDR is near remains in the witchspace tunnel as they jump, very clearly a bug. There's one where someone jumps through a sun when they land, etc. So by this I mean if it looks basically the same as either of the two we have.
 

Louis Calvert

Louis Calvert
OK, did some more googling:

Report 1)
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/bo6m4k Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/bo6m4k/i_got_stuck_in_hyperspace_but_this_scared_me_tho/

Planet in witchspace (Video), the below image is the best screengrab I can make of it

1670369210139.png


Report 2)
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/bogn90 Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/bogn90/so_about_that_planet_in_whichspace/

Planet in witchspace report with images (no video)

1670369095897.png


The Lighting is weird in both, they definitely appear to be rocky bodies.

Comparison:
This is our original video (not the FC once since that's Odyssey and both of the above were reported 3 years ago). I tried to get a screenshot at a similar close distance to both the new examples above.
1670369453079.png


I mean...

Thoughts on this?

There's people in the comments discussing a repeatable bug, but I've jumped thousands of times from just outside mass-lock on a planet and not once seen a planet, so there must still be some set of conditions for the 'bug' to trigger.

If this is a bug, then we now have 1 confirmed case for 4 years ago, 1 confirmed case from 3 years ago + 1 Possible (pics can be faked too easily), and 1 case 6 months ago. All of them do show what seems to be a visually similar planet. We have unconfirmed reports of this happening since the start of the game too (sorry @Sunyavadin no offense meant, but without a pic or video we can't compare your planet experience :))


Can anyone find more videos? The more the better! Maybe from non-english communities (I can't search for those since I'm stoopid and only speak one language)? What else might people post it as? etc. Still need an example of any other planet type or something visibly "definitely not the same planet".
 
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Frankymole

Frankymole
I've had a light blue/gray coloured planet appear momentarily but only because that's the planet nearest where I was jumping away from (graphics glitch).
 

Sunyavadin

Sunyavadin
No offence taken, my experience was way back when I first began playing ED, so it wasn't the sort of thing I'd think to document with video. I might have posted something on the forums then, but any discussion about it at the time might not even be possible to find since there was a whole forum migration since then, and I dunno if they archived everything.
 

cmdr milesred

cmdr milesred
if you are aware of how most games and other programs rapidly change scenes
it is common to load/draw into ram you are not viewing, then point to it when ready
old animation and for example keyboard character animation, ansi, many depend on page flipping

the point here is ram and games use it to the max

even though there are glitches and a possibility that some things in witch space are what they appear to be...
I would bet that most reports are the former, ram issues. not enough, not fast enough
display in ed is often dependent on ram, HD speed, internet speed and the obvious video card.

when you are going into sc, try minimizing the game then bring it back to full screen. often you will get traces of what was but now has not been cleaned up by the game and looks nothing like what was.
lots of bright vertical stripes in the center, flowing from lack of refresh

I can go into more explanation of how each version of windows fails or succeeds with ram and many variations of a scene mishandled.
and between ed and windows there are many ram issues.

so..if any images or videos of the unexpected or un-explained exist from any consoles, then maybe its less likely to be a pc style glitch.

many cmdrs played and likely still play with barely enough ram for windows.
same for video cards, many have 1gb vram...probably several with less.

Also pointing this out because even though I have seen some odd things, I also can usually tell why.

As a guy that did photography professionally many eons ago, I always have basic photo questions to ask, more intense ones if the photo is not easily explainable by me right away.
digital has more than the normal amount of details to an image, than a film.

and once upon a time editing was not easy, now any cat can.
 
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