The Quest To Find Raxxla

[Jorki Rasalas]

Well, if you don't throw out the novel TDW and Elite1, the Thargoids are no legend. Ordinary, albeit hostile, aliens.

But I do throw out the novella and Elite1 & 2 & 3!
If not explicitly referenced in ED then it may not be canon, see Allen Stroud’s posts in this thread.

By the time of the start of ED the Thargoids had slipped into myth, with many believing they did not exist. It’s either in the Codex or a Tourist Beacon....
Or galnet...

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

But I do throw out the novella and Elite1 & 2 & 3!
If not explicitly referenced in ED then it may not be canon, see Allen Stroud’s posts in this thread.

By the time of the start of ED the Thargoids had slipped into myth, with many believing they did not exist. It’s either in the Codex or a Tourist Beacon.

Or a planet, station, etc...

I have to ask why? The gazetteer even stated which frontier system seemingly had traces of alien civilizations. TDW novella also seems to have fairly obvious hints about locations that might be important.

I mean you do what feels comfortable for you, but seems like you are making this harder for yourself.

I am just saying...maybe trusting the space monk that seems have some ideas that can be backed with in-game evidence may not be the worst choice you could make.

 

[Xenia_K]

Reality is rarely pretty or simple - especially both at the same time.

I beg to differ - look at a cherry-blossom

 

[simulacrae]

Or a planet, station, etc...

I have to ask why? The gazetteer even stated which frontier system seemingly had traces of alien civilizations. TDW novella also seems to have fairly obvious hints about locations that might be important.

I mean you do what feels comfortable for you, but seems like you are making this harder for yourself.

I am just saying...maybe trusting the space monk that seems have some ideas that can be backed with in-game evidence may not be the worst choice you could make.

View attachment 349330

Ya its fairly clear the ED is continuing on from FFE … however… big however… there are many discrepancies (safer to say they are following from an unpublished variant of FFE). So anything from FFE must not be taken as canon but has rather a better chance of being real than the earlier stuff. I think anything prior to FFE would fall under “legends” and maybe even some stuff in it.. but that doesnt stop us from dreaming.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

My general take is I don't take lore seriously until I can prove in some fashion it exists. That said, the Nemesis Project story arc got me thinking this sound like Utopia's Sim-Archive. The problem, the Antal system is barely worth writing up an exploration report. There appears to not be anything obvious infrastructure-wise that would actually support it (though there have been several GalNets plus Pranav Antal's codex entry). That said, I have proof of external configuration of jumps (see fleet carrier jumps sequence at 40 seconds and varying engineer data). So current running idea is that Monolith Network is both Faraway and Nemesis/Sim-Archive. The antenna on station seems to help with transmission of data from ships requesting jumps. Realistically, even our fusion power plants cannot generate enough power to rip a hole in the fabric of space-time. Because as best I can gather, the Witch-space tunnel is a temporary wormhole between systems. Meanwhile, supercruise is something like an Alcubierre drive.

If Faraway still exists or ever existed the infrastructure is as follows:

• Large stations especially the large antenna at rear
• Ringed antenna array at entry to stations (these are what you lock against when in supercruise)
• Large vertical antenna on outposts
• Surface sites especially those with gates, antenna, power sources, antenna arrays that look like radio telescopes
• Surface ports with radio telescopes like structures
• Surface ports with what look like solar panels
• Artificial power sources
• Asteroid bases ringed antenna array and rear antenna
• Artificial structures
• Orbital installations
• Anything stating: "WARNING : LIVE ROUTING"
• Our ships, megaships, fleet carriers, dredgers, SRVs are ad-hoc nodes
• Guardian surface locations
• Guardian Beacons
• "Thargoid" ships (again ad-hoc nodes)
• Network of gravitational singularities

If you get near these antenna you actually hear them transmitting.

 

[SergMx]

Realistically, even our fusion power plants cannot generate enough power to rip a hole in the fabric of space-time.

Time has nothing to do with it.

P.S. And I don't really know what you're talking about, there's a network of guards. It is represented by guardian beacons.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Time has nothing to do with it.

P.S. And I don't really know what you're talking about, there's a network of guards. It is represented by guardian beacons.

Last I checked, our ships don't generate power on the scale of billions of suns - Wormhole FAQ from the Chandra Space Telescope team

So, in order to hold a wormhole open long enough for space travel, an incredible amount of negative energy would be required. For example, it has been estimated that to create a wormhole with a diameter one millionth the size of a proton, wormhole engineers would need negative energy equivalent in magnitude to the energy generated by ten billion suns in one year. As you can see, this would be a very expensive way to travel!

Think for a moment about how absolutely massive most our ships are - nevermind fleet carriers and megaships.

Space-time otherwise known as the fabric of the universe ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime ). Even creating a blackhole requires fairly insane amounts energy and mass in a suitably small region. All I am saying, is your power plant may run your ship but it doesn't generate anything close enough to open a tunnel in space between systems. Something else is doing that.

Elite's Universe is based on hard science fiction which means most choices when implementing the game were at least partly informed based upon actual science, physics, chemistry, geology, etc.

David Braben said "obviously the previous games have been big influences, but I've been a science fiction fan for a very long time and I've always liked the harder end of science fiction where there's a lot more justification behind the way things happen."

Michael Brookes said "you have to imagine what the world could be like in 1000 years time. That's not as easy as you might think. There's things which you think might go easily, nanotechnology or whatever, but it may not turn out so we've actually got quite a dark world which I think is quite nice. I'm not a fan of utopia based science fiction in the future."

 

[SergMx]

Last I checked, our ships don't generate power on the scale of billions of suns - Wormhole FAQ from the Chandra Space Telescope team



Think for a moment about how absolutely massive most our ships are - nevermind fleet carriers and megaships.

Space-time otherwise known as the fabric of the universe ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime ). Even creating a blackhole requires fairly insane amounts energy and mass in a suitably small region. All I am saying, is your power plant may run your ship but it doesn't generate anything close enough to open a tunnel in space between systems. Something else is doing that.

Elite's Universe is based on hard science fiction which means most choices when implementing the game were at least partly informed based upon actual science, physics, chemistry, geology, etc.

Yes, I understand everything, the only thing I don't understand is why you say the word time.
Just space.

 

[Thatchinho]

very interesting.
Then it turns out that it has something to do with either time or the passage to another galaxy.
Well it is not sad, but they give one more confirmation of the theory that it is impossible to find Raxxla in ED.

(The first reinforcement is that if someone finds it, then immediately write about it on the forum and about it will know at once ALL).

Well it’s worth bearing in mind that Ian Bell hasn’t been involved with Elite since the original game, so it’s just his take on Holdstock’s Raxxla given what he (Bell) knew about ED at the time (which may well be less than we do). It was phrased in a way that was quite disparaging to ED, so there may be more than an element of the dispute/falling out between him and David Braben behind what he said.

Even if what Bell said was accurate, it doesn’t mean that ED doesn’t have Raxxla, just that ED’s Raxxla may be different to Holdstock’s vision for Raxxla in Elite. From what I recall of what was said, there was an implication that Braben may not have even known what Holdstock’s Raxxla was. So if that is the case, ED’s Raxxla was pretty much always going to be different to Holdstock’s vision of Raxxla in Elite.

(Please apply a suitable bit of doubt over the statements as well, as I can’t currently find the original source for it all, and it’s always possible that what I’m remembering is what someone else said that Ian Bell said rather than a direct first hand statement from Bell himself.)

 

[SergMx]

Well it’s worth bearing in mind that Ian Bell hasn’t been involved with Elite since the original game, so it’s just his take on Holdstock’s Raxxla given what he (Bell) knew about ED at the time (which may well be less than we do). It was phrased in a way that was quite disparaging to ED, so there may be more than an element of the dispute/falling out between him and David Braben behind what he said.

Even if what Bell said was accurate, it doesn’t mean that ED doesn’t have Raxxla, just that ED’s Raxxla may be different to Holdstock’s vision for Raxxla in Elite. From what I recall of what was said, there was an implication that Braben may not have even known what Holdstock’s Raxxla was. So if that is the case, ED’s Raxxla was pretty much always going to be different to Holdstock’s vision of Raxxla in Elite.

(Please apply a suitable bit of doubt over the statements as well, as I can’t currently find the original source for it all, and it’s always possible that what I’m remembering is what someone else said that Ian Bell said rather than a direct first hand statement from Bell himself.)

I just liked the saying because it fits my idea of the Raxxla myth.

As for today's development of the story of the witch, D-2, etc. I'm still waiting for the Odyssey - Trojan Horse.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Yes, I understand everything, the only thing I don't understand is why you say the word time.
Just space.

It is more to do with physics and when you get anything as extreme as a singularity the garden variety version of physics that predicts events here on Earth starts breaking ... badly. Blackholes and wormholes are each distinct kinds of singularities. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity

 

[Thatchinho]

The Mars Alien Artefact in ED can have only two explanations:
1) It’s just a vague tribute to the Arnie film Total Recall, where the atmospheric engine was triggered by Arnie’s hand pressing the alien hand shape on the top of the column.
2) It’s a clear indication that in ED aliens visited Sol in ancient history.

Though 2) doesn't preclude 1).
I find 1) a bit unconvincing, since the ED artefact is clearly stated to be a small object, no larger than a child’s hand, whereas the alien hand shape in the film was quite a bit bigger than Arnie’s large hands, and IIRC only 4 fingers (does that match the Guardians description by Ram Tah?). So I’m left with the hint that aliens have visited Sol, specifically Mars, in ancient history. But there are no consequences to that, no follow-on story/clues. The only thing that is obviously odd about Sol is that Triton is permit locked...could Triton be Raxxla? This hypothesis seems to hang, since there appears to be no storyline mechanics to explore it.

We are told explicitly that the Guardians had sentient AI, and so did humans, before it was banned and some escaped to deep space...so there’s two potential other species for you!

IIRC the Mars Relic was found in space, but there were also fossils found on Mars itself.

Assuming that is indeed correct then it’s established that there were non-Earth based living creatures in Sol well before humanity’s time.

Possibilities:

• They came from Mars originally
• They came from Earth originally and travelled to Mars
• They came from another body in the solar system and travelled to Mars
• They came from outside the solar system and travelled to Mars

AFAIK there’s nothing however to say whether (and if so, how) the Mars fossils and Mars relics are related.

 

[Thatchinho]

I just liked the saying because it fits my idea of the Raxxla myth.

Cool, I just wouldn’t want you to have taken a paraphrased statement that I can’t find the original source for as something that puts you off the idea of looking for Raxxla in ED!

 

[SergMx]

It is more to do with physics and when you get anything as extreme as a singularity the garden variety version of physics that predicts events here on Earth starts breaking ... badly. Blackholes and wormholes are each distinct kinds of singularities. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity

Yes, I am aware of that. It's just that if the word space-time were simply replaced with space, nothing would be lost.
What's the point of adding a constant to anything?
(I don't think that's really the point here).

 

[SergMx]

Cool, I just wouldn’t want you to have taken a paraphrased statement that I can’t find the original source for as something that puts you off the idea of looking for Raxxla in ED!

1. Well it does not cancel the search for TDW and if you can somehow join TDW it will not essentially just continue the search for Raxxla.

2. the game is constantly changing and remaking, then on the obelisk 2x3 glyph then 2x2, etc. Previously, the game was not at all Codex. At this point they can do and remake anything.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Yes, I am aware of that. It's just that if the word space-time were simply replaced with space, nothing would be lost.

Yes and no. There is something I wasn't going to mention but might as well. It has to do with how Robert Holdstock describes stargates:

"Stargates are distortions in space; they are also distortions in time, a fact that is often overlooked."
-Tour of the Universe, Robert Holdstock
In a section describing stargates in the Galactic Cooperative. The three major ones are Magellan, Trax, and Cirag but numerous smaller branches of less well explored pathways exist.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

In short, it may be another wrinkle to the Raxxla myth as Cirag is in TDW novella. The trick is going to be tracking it down through the path taken by Alex Ryder.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

IIRC the Mars Relic was found in space, but there were also fossils found on Mars itself.

Assuming that is indeed correct then it’s established that there were non-Earth based living creatures in Sol well before humanity’s time.

Possibilities:

• They came from Mars originally
• They came from Earth originally and travelled to Mars
• They came from another body in the solar system and travelled to Mars
• They came from outside the solar system and travelled to Mars

AFAIK there’s nothing however to say whether (and if so, how) the Mars fossils and Mars relics are related.

Having read that, and last weekend watched Jeff Wayne’s War of the Worlds New Generation on TV, I just gotta say a long, loud & warbling Ullllaaaaaaaa!

TB175 - “The object was found buried on Mars; it was no bigger than a child's hand and is still surrounded in secrecy, even in 3300. No information has ever been circulated as to the properties of this item or its origin, other than it is non-human.”
TB216- the artefact that was found in orbit (of Jupiter) was a message capsule from Augustus Brenquith. I suspect this (& he) might be significant for TDW/Raxxla, but never found anything to follow-on.

Edit
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-9981457 from Allen Stroud
“
Brenquith was a Frontier Gazetteer character. His exploits were highlighted and expanded with more detail added in the guide material.

Later, I produced a variety of spoof Astrogator Tours adverts for Lave Radio.
”

I sometimes think I missed out a lot by missing the games between Elite 1 and Elite 4, but then I remember that period involved working for a living and raising children....

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

Well it’s worth bearing in mind that Ian Bell hasn’t been involved with Elite since the original game, so it’s just his take on Holdstock’s Raxxla given what he (Bell) knew about ED at the time (which may well be less than we do). It was phrased in a way that was quite disparaging to ED, so there may be more than an element of the dispute/falling out between him and David Braben behind what he said.

Even if what Bell said was accurate, it doesn’t mean that ED doesn’t have Raxxla, just that ED’s Raxxla may be different to Holdstock’s vision for Raxxla in Elite. From what I recall of what was said, there was an implication that Braben may not have even known what Holdstock’s Raxxla was. So if that is the case, ED’s Raxxla was pretty much always going to be different to Holdstock’s vision of Raxxla in Elite.

(Please apply a suitable bit of doubt over the statements as well, as I can’t currently find the original source for it all, and it’s always possible that what I’m remembering is what someone else said that Ian Bell said rather than a direct first hand statement from Bell himself.)

See (these are actually references to posts by Allen Stroud which seem relevant to the topic, dont understand why the visible posts are linked....but its on the same page)

The Quest To Find Raxxla

I’ve thought for a while that Raxxla is likely to be in Sol. My previous “Raxxla in Sol” hypothesis was posted a while ago on this thread, when I believed the “clues” pointed to Sol’s asteroid belt. That made some sense with its proximity to Mars, where the alien artefact was found and indicates...

forums.frontier.co.uk

The Quest To Find Raxxla

is there a way to get all text that was written on the last 1423 pages? then i could go and check each word if its a system Name in EDSM. and let my PC run a couple days.

forums.frontier.co.uk

The Quest To Find Raxxla

Bill has a something-Quest ship in the cellar. It has caustic damage, so it was probably damaged by Thargoids. The old story had Mic's Quest destroyed by INRA. There were a few other Quest ships in FFE. None of them seem that relevant to ED. There are no traces of a major Mycoid attack or Mycoid...

forums.frontier.co.uk

The Quest To Find Raxxla

Ahh I was going to see if this is posted and curious if anyone know about this. Hopefully those who been around since the kick starter days.

forums.frontier.co.uk

The Quest To Find Raxxla

I know it is easy to think dismissing me will work, but I actually did do my research. There is very little reason to believe what we thought we knew. Not all humans should be trusted but I am not one of the bad ones. It cost me everything to speak out. I gain literally nothing by speaking out...

forums.frontier.co.uk

The Quest To Find Raxxla

Why can i continue to fly into this star without heat raising and why is there weird white solar flare particle effects with strange music lol 43.35ly from Sol LHS 1642 A, one single solar flare, never changes its location on the sun, im currently flying into it in deep suicide mode wish me luck lol

forums.frontier.co.uk

(Mmm, I never played them, so what hints are there to Raxxla/TDW in the lore of Frontier: Elite 2 and Frontier First Encounters?)

The Quest To Find Raxxla

I know it is easy to think dismissing me will work, but I actually did do my research. There is very little reason to believe what we thought we knew. Not all humans should be trusted but I am not one of the bad ones. It cost me everything to speak out. I gain literally nothing by speaking out...

forums.frontier.co.uk

(In particular “I would say clearly, any attempt to reconcile the main narrative of Elite (original) with Elite Dangerous beyond how it is already connected is only an exercise in personal canon”, so Raxxla in ED may (IMHO highly likely to) be very different from the original novella)

Edit:
Ive tried to find the Ian Bell quote on ED’s implementation of Holdstock’s Raxxla, but failed. I was sure someone had mentioned it in this thread, but my googlefu is weak this morning (weaker than normal) - bad night with copawlot, must have a nap...

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

(In particular “I would say clearly, any attempt to reconcile the main narrative of Elite (original) with Elite Dangerous beyond how it is already connected is only an exercise in personal canon”, so Raxxla in ED may (IMHO highly likely to) be very different from the original novella

While I am aware of that my methods have their doubters, I was able to locate Veliaze, Vetitice (first Coriolis is built in modern-day Facece), and and the Imperial name for Alioth (Quphieth). I believe that means there is enough there to continue onwards. I alone have to understand the "magic" that makes it work. The acceptance of my detractors is fortunately not required.

(Mmm, I never played them, so what hints are there to Raxxla/TDW in the lore of Frontier: Elite 2 and Frontier First Encounters

Welcome to club on that point. This is my first Elite game. I just studied - a lot. Beyond having managed to acquire all the rare copies of Holdstock's works, I studied Frontier gazetteer and First Encounters journals. I would strongly recommend the website: http://www.dream-ware.co.uk/ . There is still a lot of work on decoding the past (e.g. still trying to figure out the role of Jackson's Lighthouse before it became the lighthouse as that happened in 2672). The gazetteer is quite useful but is confusing due to some systems having two entries but most don't. The journals more provide additional information once a story arc is confirmed to a degree in Elite Dangerous.

The problem that we all face is the following:

• Core lore: 3100s - 3300s (Elite - Elite Dangerous), books, Elite Encounters RPG, and Elite Dangerous RPG
• GalCop/Faraway Era - 2800s - 3100s (largely found in Frontier and First Encounters)
• Old Worlds Coalition (2400s - 2800s) - Elite (especially maps from that era, Frontier, First Encounters, Elite Encounters RPG
• Mythical era (anything before human spaceflight to 2400s). Most everything from this era is matter of piecing it all together with only occasional cases of certainty.

In other words, anything Raxxla and to a degree TDW related involve guesswork, putting fragments together, and then trying to see if it gets you anywhere.