So, who do you need saving from? The people that lied like snakes because, imagine that, they might be Reptiloid as discussed previously. The Club cannot fight people who are honest and authentic.

I have gotten to the point where I am threatening enough to be pulled over by the varying superpower's navies. You are told under no uncertain terms you must submit to interdiction.

Let that sink in. I am not nearly as high ranked as most CMDRs. True, I am Elite, but only in exploration.

Lawful good doesn't mean lawful nice.
 
I think everyone here deserves a nice Lavian Brandy.

🥂

Remember, we are all here to find Raxxla. We should be as transparent as possible and be open-minded to other view points. This is all the more true if they can substantiate their ideas via known lore (no matter where it falls on the "official lore" spectrum).

The hunt for Raxxla was designed to be worth the effort.
 
I think everyone here deserves a nice Lavian Brandy.

🥂

Remember, we are all here to find Raxxla. We should be as transparent as possible and be open-minded to other view points. This is all the more true if they can substantiate their ideas via known lore (no matter where it falls on the "official lore" spectrum).

The hunt for Raxxla was designed to be worth the effort.

Anything on a Hutton mug would be nice as well.

Too bad I'm short on creativity for truckery ideas to earn an IRL one, and neglected 2Hot2Messy for months.
Honestly, the Brookes Tour's nudging to Raxxla is what made me return at last, even as completely aimless as I am.
 
Anything on a Hutton mug would be nice as well.

Too bad I'm short on creativity for truckery ideas to earn an IRL one, and neglected 2Hot2Messy for months.
Honestly, the Brookes Tour's nudging to Raxxla is what made me return at last, even as completely aimless as I am.
Honestly, I need to make the trek back out to Alpha Centauri to finish synthesizing the lore from Shibboleth system and "Church of the Path" and the (possibly former) adherent that ended up there to make sense of some stuff. There is also a weird disappearance that went down nearby there. I think "Church of the Path" is part of Far God given Brother Aiden and him possibly being linked to Etain. Alpha Centauri is weird and HUGE.
 
If you haven't, look up Bible verse Judges 12:6. Also, read up on shibboleths on Wikipedia. The concept is wicked important to overall lore.

If you get a shibboleth wrong, you are going to have a bad time.
 
"So logically if you know what represents Hell and Heaven, and the axis in game you can calculate where Eden ought to be."

"hell" is almost certainly Tartarus.
Which is the name for Hell used by Milton.

I suspect the place to look is halfway twixt Heaven and Hell.
Ah, Milton Keynes!
😁

Edit:
Since Yorkshire is God’s Own Country then clearly it is situated towards Heaven.....
 
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"So logically if you know what represents Hell and Heaven, and the axis in game you can calculate where Eden ought to be."

"hell" is almost certainly Tartarus.
Which is the name for Hell used by Milton.

I suspect the place to look is halfway twixt Heaven and Hell.

Yes - but only ‘if’ Brookes applied a Miltonian framework. He may not have, but it’s worth a shot.

To remind us all the location of Eden in Paradise Lost does obey geometry, and new developments I believe help establish this but also raise a new possibility.

Remember: ‘As far removed from god and light of heaven as far from the centre three times to the utmost pole’ John Milton - Paradise Lost.

The John Milton conundrum
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-john-milton-conundrum.607684/

The passage of Milton which identifies the distance between heaven and hell is accurate, but various interpretations place Eden a little lower down from the centre, which effectively ought to be the boundary of the heavens, or the ‘Otherworld’.

IMG_7197.jpeg


I have a good assumption that the Greek god systems represented in game depict the heavens (the upper celestial hemisphere), hell - well Tartarus is the deepest void, but the entrance to hell, and it’s higher realms are a little higher up (almost) and closer to Axis Mundi, as is the capital of hell Pandemonium - so my bet is Axis Mundi.

In the potential heaven realm I believe Helios is the most northern deity, this is not only because of it’s classical relationship, but also that it’s position is actually very relative in game to the ‘Anemoi’ systems, the Greek north and south winds (compass).

Now if we follow this new alignment this potentially shifts the alignment so that Hecate as the crossroads to the underworld is now in a new alignment with Yggdrasil.

So potentially - Eden is either between Helios and Axis Mundi; or Helios and Hecate, or if you follow the assessment that the codex is telling us to follow the path of Persephone, to the Lost Realms, it’s simply obfuscated in the lost realms area?

So this raises an interesting conundrum as to whether Brookes applied an accurate mathematical Miltonian model, or he built something else of his own, for instance Yggdrasil.

We also have to take into consideration which model has been utilised to depict Yggdrasil… because the historical ‘maps’ made of Paradise Lost and Yggdrasil differ dramatically, as there is no definitive construct.

They either follow a traditional up/down alignment, or they are tiered

IMG_7198.jpeg


We have to also remember that the new tour has a path that directs us to these Lost Realms as it does intersect!
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10192931

The Greek Anemoi compass theory
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10129970

Yggdrasil turned on its axis
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10181355

Initially I identified the Anemoi in game as an potential anomaly, later I developed a suspicion it aligned with Yggdrasil, putting the tree on its side so to speak… this is more fitting to the traditional layout of the ash tree as it puts its underworld areas in direct alignment with the Greek underworld…

This theory is now, I feel so more viable, thanks to discussions with @Jorki Rasalas about the Triad Goddesses.

Recently I began mapping the Greek gods and when you take into account Helios as the most northern placed god, he is actually in alignment with the Anemoi compass in game, namely Boreas the north wind, so I now believe the Anemo has a justified reason, and our Yggdrasil tree alignment is on a shifted axis - this fits with various contemporary interpretations of Yggdrasil, as many of its locations don’t follow a traditional up/down alignment but are tiered.

My assumption is still that Raxxla is somewhere in the Lost Reals area, but it may also be closer to Hecate / Artemis?

Below is a diagram comparison of the Greek Gods associated with the myth of Persephone, Helios (the one above) is in correct alignment with Boreas denoting a potential new axis.

phonto.jpeg

* Yellow and Blue systems are Yggdrasil; Green systems are Greek gods; Green line represents the Greek north and South winds (compass); white lines represent the aligned of Greek systems in relation to Persephone.
 
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Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Or, since Paradise Lost was his favourite book it’s just an apt tribute to Michael Brookes.
I think this is a very important point to remember. Michael gave away his personal copy of Paradise Lost which is almost 200 years old on the first 24 hour stream Frontier did, which I was lucky enough to win for knowing it was his favourite book. His back tattoo was inspired by Milton and Lovecraft. I personally think the inclusion of Milton is far more for Michael than anything else.
 
I think this is a very important point to remember. Michael gave away his personal copy of Paradise Lost which is almost 200 years old on the first 24 hour stream Frontier did, which I was lucky enough to win for knowing it was his favourite book. His back tattoo was inspired by Milton and Lovecraft. I personally think the inclusion of Milton is far more for Michael than anything else.
On the other hand: what better framework to use than the one from your favorite book?
 
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Remember: ‘As far removed from god and light of heaven as far from the centre three times to the utmost pole’ John Milton - Paradise Lost.
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My assumption is still that Raxxla is somewhere in the Lost Reals area, but it may also be closer to Hecate / Artemis?
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I struggle with old phraseology like this - does this mean that Eden is one third of the way from heaven to hell?
It makes me think of a system called McBurney's Point, which is located towards the Blanco 1 cluster (about 1/3 of the distance from the centre of the cluster in the direction of the Bubble. -ish). I have been there several times, before and after the FSS came out but I did not map many ring systems.

Today, I will take a look at uninhabited systems that are nearer to Hecate and Artemis, especially hand-named systems.

I think my idea to look for a point of light in a ring system is workable. Yesterday I visited the Laguz system, which has zero population and a ringed brown dwarf with 8 moons. There are a pair of megaships, immediately adjacent to each other, inside the brown dwarf ring: 'Tour Des Fiers' and the flight operations carrier 'Champion of Commerce' (both owned by Torval Mining, which is listed as a faction present in the system and the whole system is under their jurisdiction). They are visible in the ring from distance as a point of light.
Additionally, I was able to map the ring using the DSS. (2 tritium hotspots and a pair of overlapping grandiderite hotspots, not a bad place for mining). EDIT: the ring here has 4 hotspots only - the tritium/grandiderite is the contents of the rings of the gas giant with 8 moons in the Undines system.

I get Ozric's point above but then why that passage and why mention Raxxla at all? It is as close as FD can get to saying Paradise Lost is relevant to the search for Raxxla.
 
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Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
I agree that it is certainly a possibility that it's a significant hint, and if it helps narrow down a search so you can find or eliminate something then that's good. I am just wary :)


Wow Ozric, you need to have a health warning with that signature and give out welding glasses!
😁
I know sorry (not sorry)
 
I get Ozric's point above but then why that passage and why mention Raxxla at all? It is as close as FD can get to saying Paradise Lost is relevant to the search for Raxxla.
Milton tells us the same story that we have heard twice before. The story of the Portal / Gateway. This is mentioned by Rafe Zetter in TDW and in the Codex, as the Omphalos rift.

Rafe does not give any hints on the location of Raxxla, except for "Raxxla—if it exists—is in another Galaxy". This probably just means that it's not in Galaxy 1 of the GalCop trade maps. For us that probably just means that it's not close to the Lave region.

Both Milton and the codex sort of says that the portal is directly above earth (whatever that means).

If the Omphalos rift / portal / gateway is alien like Rafe and the Codex tells, it's likely that these aliens are the gods from our religions and that all the religions tells the same story. As story that has been corrupted by millennia of oral retelling.
These aliens would have had the portal for a practical reason. Something like relocating from a home that was no longer sustainable or for exiling undesirable members. This portal would have to be close enough to earth, for it to be practical for the aliens to drop by, mess with the humans and tell them a few stories.

If the aliens didn't have the same type of hyperspace tech as we have and relied on jump gates, Raxxla has to be really close to Sol. Most likely within.
If they had normal hyperspace, Raxxla could be further away. That would imply that the distance between the heaven and the underworld is very long. To long to for it to be practical with normal hyperspace travel.

In essence the closer we put heaven and hell to each other, the closer to Sol we put Raxxla.
 
A reminder about the Old Worlds Coalition: the Morten-Marte incident is canonical. Which also means the Empire has forever been part of the lore even in the first game.

The first game happens in the same Universe as Earth and Achenar. Universal Cartographics is part of the Club conspiracy to bury the past.



You can even do a mission for Her Majesties Imperial Space Navy, in most versions. :)
 
I struggle with old phraseology like this - does this mean that Eden is one third of the way from heaven to hell?

Milton’s cosmos effectively is four realms, the Empyrean (heaven), Chaos, Hell, and our universe, hung pendent from the floor of the Empyrean.

As far removed from god and light of heaven as far from the centre thrice to the utmost pole” Paradise Lost - John Milton.

Here Milton effectively states - from, not the terrestrial pole but the universal pole, the distance from heaven to hell is three semi-diameters of the great sphere (or universe) and that our pendent universe (the great sphere) occupied two thirds of the space between (heaven and hell).

But we have to remember this was a poem, and Milton was inconsistent, things are distant and huge, but also small and close, he interchanged these to suit, primarily as we switch perspectives or simply to convey vast cosmological distances and wonder.

But still it fixes these regions and allows us points to navigate and orient ourselves. But the point remains, has FD applied this same Miltonian logic in game?

I find it fascinating, because if you know the location of Hell and Heaven you can work out the location of Eden (Raxxla) in game, but not only that, Milton also provides us a guide on how to get to Eden/Paradise via a fixed point.

This was through the use of Lucifer’s viaduct (bridge), built by Sinn and Death. It reaches all the way from the gates of hell, through chaos and is ‘fixed’ upon the spherical shell of our universe, at the spot where Satan first alighted and in proximity to the margin of the wide opening at its zenith (omphalos rift?).

Find and follow Lucifer’s bridge and you find Eden.

And now they’ (Sinn and Death) ‘brought the work by wondrous art pontifical a ridge of pendent rock, over the vexed Abyss, following the track of Satan to the self same place where he first lighted” - “with pubs of adamant and chains they made all fast, too fast they made durable” Paradise Lost - John Milton.

This same location was also the location of Milton’s ‘Paradise of Fools’.

Of note there is a Cockaigne system within the Lost Realms area.
 
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