But all this is relatively moot if we are thinking that the Guardians might have (via Raxxla, Omphalos, or whatever) come from another galaxy/ universe, isn't it?
Of course, if that's the line of inquiry, then we can't draw knowledge half as easily.
The Quest To Find Raxxla
- Thread starter Macros Black
- Start date
Of course, if that's the line of inquiry, then we can't draw knowledge half as easily.
It's certainly true that there's a lot of things that connect PF technology with Guardian technology, years back on Dreamstate's Guardian thread we talked about the likelihood that our tech is already Guardian-based:
Our Ship UI "loading" is triangles and hexagons - very similar to the Guardian Monolith "loading" icons:
Fdev have spent a lot of time developing specific and distinct design language for Elite Dangerous, the Guardians, Thrgoids, and Humans all have specific design language - but every single time our Ship UI or station interface loads, you see these triangles and hexagonal loading icons - that's a deliberate choice.
Then there's the fact that we have an FTL commns network very similar to the Guardian Monolith network. We can pretty much "plug and play" Guardian technology with ours with very little explanation as to how a million-year-dead ancient alien civilisation has technology so very similar to ours. Many people commented on how Ram Tah could translate the Guardian language and Monolith network so quickly, etc.
Then we have the 'expansion spike' of the Guardian sites that points pretty much directly towards Sol:
And the fact that "Guardian Space" is so close to "Human Space", the relationship between humans and Guardians is extremely unlikely to be coincidental - especially if you take into account how much like humanity Guardians were in almost every single way barring some superficial biology. For aliens, they're basically cousins.
Then we have the fact that Humanity has a pan-superpower convention to ban AI that has transcended any faction rivalry and been in place for a long time. Which may well have been put in place to prevent Humanity developing anything like the Constructs - either as rivals to the Constructs working with Humans, or because of the cautionary tale told by the descendants of the Exiles about how the Constructs destroyed Guardian civilisation.
The Guardian Civilisation collapsed around the time our ancestors were starting to become recognisably modern humans (Homo Sapiens), so it's entirely possible that some descendant of the Guardians (Exiles or Constructs) assisted early humanity, possibly by Uplifting us as the Aliens in 2001 did, like Jorki saisd. It's also entirely possible that they stayed with us shaping our development, maybe acting as our 'gods' as Han_Zen recently said.
Of course Halsey's 'visions'. She described them as "Caretakers of the Galaxy" - caretaker isn't too far off the idea of a guardian - and we know from the Codex that Fdev considers Halsey's visions part of the Guardian storyline - confirming at least something is still present today and able to interact on some level with humanity.
Fdev have spent a lot of time developing specific and distinct design language for Elite Dangerous, the Guardians, Thrgoids, and Humans all have specific design language - but every single time our Ship UI or station interface loads, you see these triangles and hexagonal loading icons - that's a deliberate choice.
Then there's the fact that we have an FTL commns network very similar to the Guardian Monolith network. We can pretty much "plug and play" Guardian technology with ours with very little explanation as to how a million-year-dead ancient alien civilisation has technology so very similar to ours. Many people commented on how Ram Tah could translate the Guardian language and Monolith network so quickly, etc.
Then we have the 'expansion spike' of the Guardian sites that points pretty much directly towards Sol:
And the fact that "Guardian Space" is so close to "Human Space", the relationship between humans and Guardians is extremely unlikely to be coincidental - especially if you take into account how much like humanity Guardians were in almost every single way barring some superficial biology. For aliens, they're basically cousins.
Then we have the fact that Humanity has a pan-superpower convention to ban AI that has transcended any faction rivalry and been in place for a long time. Which may well have been put in place to prevent Humanity developing anything like the Constructs - either as rivals to the Constructs working with Humans, or because of the cautionary tale told by the descendants of the Exiles about how the Constructs destroyed Guardian civilisation.
The Guardian Civilisation collapsed around the time our ancestors were starting to become recognisably modern humans (Homo Sapiens), so it's entirely possible that some descendant of the Guardians (Exiles or Constructs) assisted early humanity, possibly by Uplifting us as the Aliens in 2001 did, like Jorki saisd. It's also entirely possible that they stayed with us shaping our development, maybe acting as our 'gods' as Han_Zen recently said.
Of course Halsey's 'visions'. She described them as "Caretakers of the Galaxy" - caretaker isn't too far off the idea of a guardian - and we know from the Codex that Fdev considers Halsey's visions part of the Guardian storyline - confirming at least something is still present today and able to interact on some level with humanity.
This idea puts me in mind of the Raxxla Codex entry:
In this case we might call whatever Guardian descendant that's shaped humanity's future "having established covert dominance over humanity", and plenty of people would consider aliens ruling secretly over humanity to be 'sinister'.
As much as this all tracks for me, I can't see how Raxxla (as expressed in the idea of the Omphalos Rift) fits in to any of this? I just can't see where Raxxla might appear, I guess I mean I can't see the 'hole' in this particular thought experiment that would be neatly filled by "an alien artefact, the Omphalos Rift, described as a gateway or tunnel through which parallel universes can be accessed."
Thoughts?
Interesting read:
Ways Through the Wood: The Rogue Cartographies of Robert Holdstock’s Mythago Wood Cycle as a Cognitive Map for Creative Process in Fiction
Author: Kevan Manwaring
I found the identification of ‘borders and thresholds’ a wonderful contextualisation of the various works of Holdstock; mirroring the in game ‘lost realm’ zone.
I do believe more and more this zone is a definitive Holdstock Easter Egg, and we need FD to acknowledge it for its genius.
‘the notion of borders’ - ‘resonates through Holdstock’s oeuvre’ “Borderlands”; “Liminal Beings”; “Thresholds” are maps to the meaning of the text’.
‘This subjective obfuscation is part of Holdstock’s strategy: we cannot see the wood for the trees’.
There’s some brilliant insights into the works of fiction is developing mythical lands (e.g Raxxla).
‘Atwood suggests, in her discussion of “ustopias”, her hybrid term for dystopias/utopias which proliferate in Science Fiction and Fantasy, cartographical concerns are critical: “any writer of ustopias has to answer 3 necessary questions: where is it, when is it, and – in relation to maps – what shape is it? For unless we readers can believe in the ustopia as a potentially mappable place, we will not suspend our disbelief willingly.” (2004: 73)’ Margaret Atwood.
I especially enjoyed this quote from Holdstock which encapsulates his world building; maybe it goes someway to explain Raxxla if it is a homage, this might give some credibility to the hypothesis that we Cmdrs exist within a Guardian simulation?
‘Our world is the spirit world as far as some mythagos are concerned. They emerge to touch their maker, the mind from which they are drawn. (1994: 118)’ Robert Holdstock.
Ways Through the Wood: The Rogue Cartographies of Robert Holdstock’s Mythago Wood Cycle as a Cognitive Map for Creative Process in Fiction
Author: Kevan Manwaring
I found the identification of ‘borders and thresholds’ a wonderful contextualisation of the various works of Holdstock; mirroring the in game ‘lost realm’ zone.
I do believe more and more this zone is a definitive Holdstock Easter Egg, and we need FD to acknowledge it for its genius.
‘the notion of borders’ - ‘resonates through Holdstock’s oeuvre’ “Borderlands”; “Liminal Beings”; “Thresholds” are maps to the meaning of the text’.
‘This subjective obfuscation is part of Holdstock’s strategy: we cannot see the wood for the trees’.
There’s some brilliant insights into the works of fiction is developing mythical lands (e.g Raxxla).
‘Atwood suggests, in her discussion of “ustopias”, her hybrid term for dystopias/utopias which proliferate in Science Fiction and Fantasy, cartographical concerns are critical: “any writer of ustopias has to answer 3 necessary questions: where is it, when is it, and – in relation to maps – what shape is it? For unless we readers can believe in the ustopia as a potentially mappable place, we will not suspend our disbelief willingly.” (2004: 73)’ Margaret Atwood.
I especially enjoyed this quote from Holdstock which encapsulates his world building; maybe it goes someway to explain Raxxla if it is a homage, this might give some credibility to the hypothesis that we Cmdrs exist within a Guardian simulation?
‘Our world is the spirit world as far as some mythagos are concerned. They emerge to touch their maker, the mind from which they are drawn. (1994: 118)’ Robert Holdstock.
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From our dear friend of the thread Dr Stroud....
www.allenstroud.co.uk
"The main element of this work was in writing a full history from AD 2013 to AD 3250, some of which came from the previously published Frontier Gazetteer and First Encounters News Journals. Where I made expansions or alterations, David Braben asked me to label and cite what I'd done.
As an example, the Federation guidebook is more than 18,000 words with 8,388 words of history narrative. It names every President from 2599 onwards, expands on the stories of Raul Santorini, Zack Blackbeam, Dentara Rast, the Jameson family and more, who might be names a few fans of the old games recognise.
How much or little Frontier Developments elected to use was entirely their choice and subsequently these guidebooks were then provided to the writers of official fiction so they might develop their stories. We were asked not to publish information from the guides, although it was acknowledged that quite a bit might be used in Dave Hughes' Elite Encounters RPG."
Whilst I'd visited Dr Stroud's website a few times in the past and knew from MB interviews that some of the galaxy had been based on a prev version, not sure I'd picked up the older news services providing the starting point for some of the lore ("some of which came from the previously published Frontier Gazetteer and First Encounters News Journals").
I know @Han_Zen is aware as I did a quick search on the forums
but thought it might be useful if anyone else hadn't picked up on this.
I wonder which stories were expanded on and altered
just a thought
Chaos Reborn: The Loremaster's Guide
Saturday 6th of February and the start of my research sabbatical from Buckinghamshire New University to work on my Creative Writing ...
"The main element of this work was in writing a full history from AD 2013 to AD 3250, some of which came from the previously published Frontier Gazetteer and First Encounters News Journals. Where I made expansions or alterations, David Braben asked me to label and cite what I'd done.
As an example, the Federation guidebook is more than 18,000 words with 8,388 words of history narrative. It names every President from 2599 onwards, expands on the stories of Raul Santorini, Zack Blackbeam, Dentara Rast, the Jameson family and more, who might be names a few fans of the old games recognise.
How much or little Frontier Developments elected to use was entirely their choice and subsequently these guidebooks were then provided to the writers of official fiction so they might develop their stories. We were asked not to publish information from the guides, although it was acknowledged that quite a bit might be used in Dave Hughes' Elite Encounters RPG."
Whilst I'd visited Dr Stroud's website a few times in the past and knew from MB interviews that some of the galaxy had been based on a prev version, not sure I'd picked up the older news services providing the starting point for some of the lore ("some of which came from the previously published Frontier Gazetteer and First Encounters News Journals").
I know @Han_Zen is aware as I did a quick search on the forums
but thought it might be useful if anyone else hadn't picked up on this. I wonder which stories were expanded on and altered
just a thought
the previously published Frontier Gazetteer and First Encounters News Journals
I'd hoped for something more to go on when I saw these highlighted:
Space stations Columbus and Titan City
Columbus orbits Io around Jupiter and Titan City orbits Titan around Saturn. Both are of historical interest only in that they used to be fabulous holiday resorts when they were the most distant settlements. Unfortunately with easier travel they changed from very pleasant venues to the vacation destinations of the masses. The quiet atmosphere has been shattered by loud music intended to confince you that a good time is being had by all. It blares forth from gift boutiques selling such items as a bottle of Genuine Red Spot Gas and Saturn Ring Rock jewellery.
This might be the only reason for the palm tree station, though.
I'd hoped for something more to go on when I saw these highlighted:
Space stations Columbus and Titan City
Columbus orbits Io around Jupiter and Titan City orbits Titan around Saturn. Both are of historical interest only in that they used to be fabulous holiday resorts when they were the most distant settlements. Unfortunately with easier travel they changed from very pleasant venues to the vacation destinations of the masses. The quiet atmosphere has been shattered by loud music intended to confince you that a good time is being had by all. It blares forth from gift boutiques selling such items as a bottle of Genuine Red Spot Gas and Saturn Ring Rock jewellery.
This might be the only reason for the palm tree station, though.
You might find something more here.... or you might not
Fiction - The Definitive List of Elite Fiction
For a variety of reasons, the threads stickied on this forum are out of date. So, here's a complete list of the fiction, with some comment on areas that may or may not be canon. (Updated 15.05.18) The Dark Wheel - Robert Holdstock (32nd century). Original short story included with Elite...
As always, there are more holes than rabbits.
I found the mention of Olf Trygvasson at the end of the First Encounters news journals interesting.
A quick little story of a scientist vanishing through an extra dimensional space/time travel machine.
Olaf Tryggvason was a king of Norway, influential Christian proselytiser. Lots of snakes in his story.
I found the mention of Olf Trygvasson at the end of the First Encounters news journals interesting.
A quick little story of a scientist vanishing through an extra dimensional space/time travel machine.
Olaf Tryggvason was a king of Norway, influential Christian proselytiser. Lots of snakes in his story.
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The Olf Trygvasson and the Ancient airplanes on Jameson's rock / Mystery in the sands stories both indicate some form of time warp phenomenon.
I'm not sure these stories were actually published in the game though. The Journals have bee extracted from the source code of FFE. Some of those stories were never in the in-game papers. They were probably intended for a part of the story line that was never implemented.
It was well known that FFE was released by Gametech, before it was complete. This is probably the reason FD chose to self publish ED.
Been looking over breakfast at some old posts of mine which has resurrected some thoughts...
The date of first recorded rumour is early, so the idea of Raxxla was originated from before or shortly after humanity had achieved interstellar travel.
We know DB was impressed by 2001 Space Odyssey (e.g. Blue Danube music for docking in at least 2 games), but there were subsequent books. The first book had the gateway monolith on Saturn's moon Iapetus, but that was changed in the 2001SO film to in Jupiter orbit.
Augustus Brenquith’s message capsule “was recovered from outside the orbit of Jupiter” (TB 0216). According to Allen Stroud’s thesis the Alien Mars Relic was originally supposed to have been returned by a probe from orbit around Jupiter's moon Europa, but that was changed in-game to excavated on the surface of Mars (perhaps because highlighting Jupiter was too obvious?).
The second “2010:Odyssey Two” book/film had Jupiter turned by the monoliths into a star named Lucifer.
The translation of "Shinrarta Dezhra" is “In life she saw hope”, and that would make sense if one of the Guardian ark ships came to Sol or SD and a female Guardian founded the PF to get humanity combat fit for the Thargoid struggle and is controlling the FSD permits to prevent humanity going where it is not yet fit to survive.
Consider the Toast:
"To the jewel that burns on the brow of the mother of galaxies!
To the whisperer in witch-space, the siren of the deepest void!
The parent's grief, the lover's woe, and the yearning of our vagabond hearts.
To Raxxla!"
Now I posted recently that Luna might fit the Jewel, as the mother could be Mother Gaia, and it also fits the logo since Luna was one aspect of the Triple Goddess. Lucifer fits the second line (in Paradise Lost he whispered temptation in Eve's ear, and inhabited the deepest void).
Jupiter was the Roman Jove, the Sky Father, king of the gods, primary sacred animal was the eagle, equivalent to Greek Zeus (also eagles- see Omphalos myth). His sacred tree was the oak. Can't see any obvious relation to grief or woe, but run out of time over late breakfast- copawlot needs his walk.....
(Still suspect Uranus' Triton moon being locked and Triton being the start of MB's tattoo is a clue).
Yeah these were the ones that I earmarked. Of course there's no guarantee that they lead anywhere, but they're fun to get a feel for everyone's inspiration in crafting the story.
Jameson's Pride in Uszaa seems to be the likely step in following the ancient planes story. Though it is encouraging that it's the only named body in that system.
Maybe I'll have a cruise around the southern region tonight with a hot chocolate.
@Jorki Rasalas
I did so much flitting around Triton and Haumea a while back, just hoping for magic to happen!
Strangely support never got back to me on Haumea (I had that supposedly common bug where it always scans but never completes).
Not had that one planet/moon, but endless scanning used to be very common occurrence on a star.
Just had another thought! Mixing Roman and Greek mythology, what if Jupiter/Zeus sent out the eagles and Raxxla/Omphalos Rift is at the mid point between Jupiter and Earth??
Just had another thought! Mixing Roman and Greek mythology, what if Jupiter/Zeus sent out the eagles and Raxxla/Omphalos Rift is at the mid point between Jupiter and Earth??
Uszaa is not Zemien. They were both in the FE2 / FFE galaxy, as separate systems.
Yeah, I know. But it's the only Jameson's X in planet form.
It really isn't a likely thing, didn't mean to give that impression.
A lot of folks are looking for something like a giant alien stargate in space, or on an airless moon somewhere, or like the Guardian Ruins just sitting there empty. I don't think that's what Raxxla is. ("You don't know what it is" - DB)
We know from the Codex:
This is mirrored in The Dark Wheel novella.
The Dark Wheel have spent over 1000 years looking for Raxxla and never found it - or, anyone that did find it never told anyone (for whatever reason)...
Because Raxxla is being protected.
We're looking for something being actively used: Raxxla (assuming a planet) will be populated. There will be ships. A station in orbit. Presumably they'll respond aggressively if someone approaches. Presumably there will be some identifier (like Black Flight was spotted before it was confirmed to exist). The Omphalos Rift gate will presumably be in a facility of some sort.
I think rather than trying to find Raxxla, we really should be looking for whoever controls it right now.
What could this mean??
Really what immediately springs to mind for me is the Pilot's Federation (or at least a sub-faction thereof).
Thoughts?
We know from the Codex:
This is mirrored in The Dark Wheel novella.
The Dark Wheel have spent over 1000 years looking for Raxxla and never found it - or, anyone that did find it never told anyone (for whatever reason)...
Because Raxxla is being protected.
We're looking for something being actively used: Raxxla (assuming a planet) will be populated. There will be ships. A station in orbit. Presumably they'll respond aggressively if someone approaches. Presumably there will be some identifier (like Black Flight was spotted before it was confirmed to exist). The Omphalos Rift gate will presumably be in a facility of some sort.
I think rather than trying to find Raxxla, we really should be looking for whoever controls it right now.
What could this mean??
- What power could it be that has allowed covert dominance? (profit from selling alien tech? Using alien tech? mind-control rays? glimpses into the future?)
- In what way is humanity covertly dominated? (what form has this domination taken??)
- Is there evidence of this covert domination? (presumably there must be some examples?)
- Has anyone else (in the lore) found evidence of covert domination (but not linked it to Raxxla?)
- What would be different if humanity hadn't been covertly dominated? (i.e. is there evidence of being held back?)
- Who has demonstrated covert dominance? (not like Sirius' obvious economic dominance, or the Empire/Fed's social dominance)
Really what immediately springs to mind for me is the Pilot's Federation (or at least a sub-faction thereof).
Thoughts?
As far as covert dominance is concerned, the trick to determining whether it is the group that controls Raxxla or not depends on whether events could have been influenced in a particular manner by non-external means. By 'external' I mean here both non-human and something unique that only a hypothetical gateway might allow, if that's what it is.
Some examples:
1) The development of FTL travel. This happens before (known) interactions with the Thargoids and Guardians. Is it the result of Raxxla being discovered and exploited by a covert group or the result of human ingenuity and technological advancement? This one might be either, so is a candidate for covert utilisation of Raxxla.
2) The development of AI. This also happens fairly early in the history of spaceflight, though later than the invention of FTL (I don't know of a particular date). As above, it could be either but it was soon dismissed as an avenue for continued research. Technically, the genie was never put back in the bottle completely, so to speak. Human AI are rumoured to still be out there. I feel it is more likely that an AI became a part of a covert group, though whether it is the one that controls Raxxla is not possible to say. I note, however, that Achilles Corp has its HQ in the Thule system in the Lost Realms region.
3) The Dynasty Expedition. This was done covertly but using existing technology. It did not require any external involvement to undertake.
4) The Empire. The founder was a woman interested in creating an independent republic but she was assassinated and the republic replaced by a Roman-like Imperial system that exclusively had male leaders for centuries until Arissa Lavigny-Duval came to power. Possibly an example of covert interference but it hardly requires external involvement. If, however, the heart of the Empire is close to Raxxla, then such a group might want to control the development of the Empire so that the system with Raxxla can continue to be used covertly. But in the current time can it really control the Empire to that extent?
5) The Antares disaster and the loss of Starship One. Both 'accidents' appear to share the same modus operandi. It can certainly be argued that they were sabotage and thus it was in the interests of a covert organisation to set back FSD development and put paid to Halsey's desire for closer relations with the Alliance (she did meet with Edmund Mahon during the voyage). Would it be the group that controls Raxxla? It might be in their interests to stall FSD development as more space traffic would make it harder to maintain secrecy - but how would sabotaging Starship One have helped their cause? This seems less likely to be related to Raxxla, to me.
I don't like to get into conspiracy theory, so I'll leave it there. It is not easy to establish whether something is possible or not without non-human knowledge, technology or intelligence. Every ground-breaking feat could be attributed to alien influence (see a large part of the science fiction genre!). The key I think is to look for commonalities. In that regard we have two major breakthroughs that dwarf everything since - FTL and AI. Maybe Raxxla was found and used - but then lost (or the gateway was closed), or only used very sparingly.
Some examples:
1) The development of FTL travel. This happens before (known) interactions with the Thargoids and Guardians. Is it the result of Raxxla being discovered and exploited by a covert group or the result of human ingenuity and technological advancement? This one might be either, so is a candidate for covert utilisation of Raxxla.
2) The development of AI. This also happens fairly early in the history of spaceflight, though later than the invention of FTL (I don't know of a particular date). As above, it could be either but it was soon dismissed as an avenue for continued research. Technically, the genie was never put back in the bottle completely, so to speak. Human AI are rumoured to still be out there. I feel it is more likely that an AI became a part of a covert group, though whether it is the one that controls Raxxla is not possible to say. I note, however, that Achilles Corp has its HQ in the Thule system in the Lost Realms region.
3) The Dynasty Expedition. This was done covertly but using existing technology. It did not require any external involvement to undertake.
4) The Empire. The founder was a woman interested in creating an independent republic but she was assassinated and the republic replaced by a Roman-like Imperial system that exclusively had male leaders for centuries until Arissa Lavigny-Duval came to power. Possibly an example of covert interference but it hardly requires external involvement. If, however, the heart of the Empire is close to Raxxla, then such a group might want to control the development of the Empire so that the system with Raxxla can continue to be used covertly. But in the current time can it really control the Empire to that extent?
5) The Antares disaster and the loss of Starship One. Both 'accidents' appear to share the same modus operandi. It can certainly be argued that they were sabotage and thus it was in the interests of a covert organisation to set back FSD development and put paid to Halsey's desire for closer relations with the Alliance (she did meet with Edmund Mahon during the voyage). Would it be the group that controls Raxxla? It might be in their interests to stall FSD development as more space traffic would make it harder to maintain secrecy - but how would sabotaging Starship One have helped their cause? This seems less likely to be related to Raxxla, to me.
I don't like to get into conspiracy theory, so I'll leave it there. It is not easy to establish whether something is possible or not without non-human knowledge, technology or intelligence. Every ground-breaking feat could be attributed to alien influence (see a large part of the science fiction genre!). The key I think is to look for commonalities. In that regard we have two major breakthroughs that dwarf everything since - FTL and AI. Maybe Raxxla was found and used - but then lost (or the gateway was closed), or only used very sparingly.
Another interesting read and an excellent insight into the John Milton quote used within the Brookes Galactic Tours: of ‘This pendent world’.
Milton. A Collection of Critical Essays. Edited by Louis L Martz. P1966.
‘Milton, having established map-consciousness and space-through-eye movement, adds actual physical movement (both of flying and of sturdily plowing ships) as Satan starts the first of many journeys. Circling with him over the whole universe familiarizes us with the vast locale of the poem, thoroughly explored muscularly with swift ease or laborious difficulty by flying, walking, crawling, wading, swimming, climbing. We are even privileged through Satan's eyes to see the whole world, not just the earth, in relation to Empyrean from outside, shrunk to relative insignificance in the immense cosmos: And fast by hanging in a golden chain. This pendent world, in bigness as a star Of smallest magnitude close by the moon.
So if we accept this quote is linked to the Codex; The Jewel which burns on the brow. Raxxla is such a pendant world (orb/globe) but its size is insignificant in comparison to another enormous entity.
What might that entity be; the ‘mother of galaxies’ I believe is grammatically an explanation of something being ’the biggest’.
This makes sense in the context of the Miltonian quote in the FD galactic tours and in relation to the direct pictorial representation in Paradise Lost because that pendant world hung from the expansive enormity of heaven, but remember in Miltons text, the Empyrean was not everything, it existed in a cosmos outside our universe, a formless ‘Chaos’, with Hell below it.
In game we know where Hell is; this I establish to be the Greek underworld set by the location of ‘Pandemonium’ and of heaven by the system ‘Fall’; the point from which Satan was cast out of heaven, being in the same location of where Eden hung - as established in Paradise Lost by the entity ’Chaos’.
“To that side Heav'n from whence your Legions fell”.
We know comparatively where heaven is (heaven’s) in that in game conglomeration of systems named after the various parental deities, which all exist within the upper celestial sphere, and which correlate with the position of Fall and of Demeter.
This is where things get fascinating, because I believe it’s evident that Michael Brookes has followed the classical representation of the ‘underworld’ - not as in the limiting punitive Christian Hell, similar to that in Paradise Lost; but more so as any other classical ‘Otherworld’, combining it with the Celtic cosmology established by Robert Holdstock.
As Margaret Atwood, outlined about ‘ustopias’, they must obey cartographical concerns as a mappable place, or we will not suspend our disbelief. where is it, when is it, and – in relation to maps – what shape is it?
For Raxxla to exist in game it must obey this and have contextualisation with its environment. If that is so Raxxla location can be identified by understanding that context, but the problem is which - Holdstock or Milton?
In Holdstocks concept there is a world tree above an axis mundi. In game this can be attributed to the Yggdrasil systems, sitting above the Otherworld, a level of systems named after ‘water’ and ‘mountains’ separating it. Because, the Celtic Otherworld likewise was hidden across water or / and under hills or mountains.
In this instance I believe this ‘Otherworld’ to be all of those ‘Lost Realms‘ I’ve identified, and these form a new cosmological model universe mirroring that documented by Milton and that imagined by Holdstock, a microcosm galaxy of ‘Otherworlds’. Literally obfuscated on the outer rim of this construct.
This Pendant World then might hang from this ‘Otherworld’. Is this why the Brrookes Tours - out of Artemis aligns, is that why the path of the Sampo aligns?
Contextually is the Codex telling us to go to ‘Mother of galaxies’ then towards the underworld and look upon this ‘lost realm’ zone for Raxxla, obfuscated within, or upon or below it?
Or does the in game cosmology of Brookes mirror the Miltonian model?
There is a clear segregation in game of two areas, of ‘upper deities’ and of ‘lower deities’, the Brookes tour originates from its centre from Artemis.
Given this wider cosmological model we could project the upper realm as the Empyrean, if you follow the Miltonian model, Paradise would actually be hung from its wall, not within the underworld/Otherworld; it’s would instead be in alignment with the underworld, but much higher up, above and from the perspective of the ‘throne of Chaos’.
Chaos was a zone but also a character in Paradise Lost, described as a deity (they had a throne) and being the womb of nature, aka the source of all things; is this the ‘Mother of Galaxies’?
Again Satan was given directions by Chaos on how to get to Paradise. Is Raxxla upon the Brow of Chaos, if viewed upon the path/fall of Satan… if so where in game could ‘Chaos’ be?
There is a zone populated by deities linked to chaos, and one such possibility could be the female deity Tiamat,
Michael Brookes did write a Drabble about her, and in game the system falls between the path of the Sampo (Shibboleth) and of Brookes Tour!
Alternatively if we follow the path of the Shibboleth upwards, it does intersect perfectly with Badb of the triad goddess system of the Morrigan system, does Badb represent the wall of heaven or the Mother of Galaxies!
Please remember, the path of the Sampo / Shibboleth does also correlate to two triads of Celtic Goddesses - below and goddess’s above!
And Satan although he fell straight down initially, did not fly directly upwards to Eden. Before meeting Chaos, he first had to escape the confines of Hell, flying up to the ceiling and to the gates of Hell, guarded by his daughter Sin and son Death.
The system Sin is relatively close to Tiamat if one imagines such a path from Pandemonium; of course it’s equally possible and more likely the system Sin is the Sumerian Moon god linked to Gilgamesh which is very close by, as is Sin which is the god Gilgamesh preyed to, and directly below is Aspu!
Satan then flew with no direction until happening upon that deity, who then set his course correct upward.
Is Tiamat the Mother of Galaxies, does she point the way?
*Note - if we draw a direct line upwards, to the same Y coordinate of ‘Fall’ from Tiamat we do intersect an area upon the same correlation of the Byfrost journey, an area also relative to various other ‘upper deities’!
And remember, the path of Brookes Tours does intersect a triad of goddesses, as does the path of the Sampo, rather too perfectly, and below that is the system Michel?
And the system Tiamat does sit upon the ridge of the hypothetical ‘mountains’ systems, and hypothetically the path from Pandemonium to Sin to Tiamat goes ‘over’ the mountains!
But if so, why would the Codex initially point us directly to Tiamat / Chaos, then hypothetically draw our attention downwards to the Underworld and by my reconstruction the ‘Lost Reslms’; unless Raxxla was below that area, if the Mother of Galaxies is Chaos, Milton’s pendent world out not to reside there; because it’s hung below heavens brow; it ought to be higher up!
All rather perplexing, but we’re getting closer, our pilgrimage is gaining momentum!
Post in thread 'The Path of The Sampo Device’
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10125313
*currently not in game!
Source: https://youtu.be/FvgUD9nnXQk?si=1S__fFJ2vGtE3xcq
Milton. A Collection of Critical Essays. Edited by Louis L Martz. P1966.
‘Milton, having established map-consciousness and space-through-eye movement, adds actual physical movement (both of flying and of sturdily plowing ships) as Satan starts the first of many journeys. Circling with him over the whole universe familiarizes us with the vast locale of the poem, thoroughly explored muscularly with swift ease or laborious difficulty by flying, walking, crawling, wading, swimming, climbing. We are even privileged through Satan's eyes to see the whole world, not just the earth, in relation to Empyrean from outside, shrunk to relative insignificance in the immense cosmos: And fast by hanging in a golden chain. This pendent world, in bigness as a star Of smallest magnitude close by the moon.
So if we accept this quote is linked to the Codex; The Jewel which burns on the brow. Raxxla is such a pendant world (orb/globe) but its size is insignificant in comparison to another enormous entity.
What might that entity be; the ‘mother of galaxies’ I believe is grammatically an explanation of something being ’the biggest’.
This makes sense in the context of the Miltonian quote in the FD galactic tours and in relation to the direct pictorial representation in Paradise Lost because that pendant world hung from the expansive enormity of heaven, but remember in Miltons text, the Empyrean was not everything, it existed in a cosmos outside our universe, a formless ‘Chaos’, with Hell below it.
In game we know where Hell is; this I establish to be the Greek underworld set by the location of ‘Pandemonium’ and of heaven by the system ‘Fall’; the point from which Satan was cast out of heaven, being in the same location of where Eden hung - as established in Paradise Lost by the entity ’Chaos’.
“To that side Heav'n from whence your Legions fell”.
We know comparatively where heaven is (heaven’s) in that in game conglomeration of systems named after the various parental deities, which all exist within the upper celestial sphere, and which correlate with the position of Fall and of Demeter.
This is where things get fascinating, because I believe it’s evident that Michael Brookes has followed the classical representation of the ‘underworld’ - not as in the limiting punitive Christian Hell, similar to that in Paradise Lost; but more so as any other classical ‘Otherworld’, combining it with the Celtic cosmology established by Robert Holdstock.
As Margaret Atwood, outlined about ‘ustopias’, they must obey cartographical concerns as a mappable place, or we will not suspend our disbelief. where is it, when is it, and – in relation to maps – what shape is it?
For Raxxla to exist in game it must obey this and have contextualisation with its environment. If that is so Raxxla location can be identified by understanding that context, but the problem is which - Holdstock or Milton?
In Holdstocks concept there is a world tree above an axis mundi. In game this can be attributed to the Yggdrasil systems, sitting above the Otherworld, a level of systems named after ‘water’ and ‘mountains’ separating it. Because, the Celtic Otherworld likewise was hidden across water or / and under hills or mountains.
In this instance I believe this ‘Otherworld’ to be all of those ‘Lost Realms‘ I’ve identified, and these form a new cosmological model universe mirroring that documented by Milton and that imagined by Holdstock, a microcosm galaxy of ‘Otherworlds’. Literally obfuscated on the outer rim of this construct.
This Pendant World then might hang from this ‘Otherworld’. Is this why the Brrookes Tours - out of Artemis aligns, is that why the path of the Sampo aligns?
Contextually is the Codex telling us to go to ‘Mother of galaxies’ then towards the underworld and look upon this ‘lost realm’ zone for Raxxla, obfuscated within, or upon or below it?
Or does the in game cosmology of Brookes mirror the Miltonian model?
There is a clear segregation in game of two areas, of ‘upper deities’ and of ‘lower deities’, the Brookes tour originates from its centre from Artemis.
Given this wider cosmological model we could project the upper realm as the Empyrean, if you follow the Miltonian model, Paradise would actually be hung from its wall, not within the underworld/Otherworld; it’s would instead be in alignment with the underworld, but much higher up, above and from the perspective of the ‘throne of Chaos’.
Chaos was a zone but also a character in Paradise Lost, described as a deity (they had a throne) and being the womb of nature, aka the source of all things; is this the ‘Mother of Galaxies’?
Again Satan was given directions by Chaos on how to get to Paradise. Is Raxxla upon the Brow of Chaos, if viewed upon the path/fall of Satan… if so where in game could ‘Chaos’ be?
There is a zone populated by deities linked to chaos, and one such possibility could be the female deity Tiamat,
Michael Brookes did write a Drabble about her, and in game the system falls between the path of the Sampo (Shibboleth) and of Brookes Tour!
Alternatively if we follow the path of the Shibboleth upwards, it does intersect perfectly with Badb of the triad goddess system of the Morrigan system, does Badb represent the wall of heaven or the Mother of Galaxies!
Please remember, the path of the Sampo / Shibboleth does also correlate to two triads of Celtic Goddesses - below and goddess’s above!
And Satan although he fell straight down initially, did not fly directly upwards to Eden. Before meeting Chaos, he first had to escape the confines of Hell, flying up to the ceiling and to the gates of Hell, guarded by his daughter Sin and son Death.
The system Sin is relatively close to Tiamat if one imagines such a path from Pandemonium; of course it’s equally possible and more likely the system Sin is the Sumerian Moon god linked to Gilgamesh which is very close by, as is Sin which is the god Gilgamesh preyed to, and directly below is Aspu!
Satan then flew with no direction until happening upon that deity, who then set his course correct upward.
Is Tiamat the Mother of Galaxies, does she point the way?
*Note - if we draw a direct line upwards, to the same Y coordinate of ‘Fall’ from Tiamat we do intersect an area upon the same correlation of the Byfrost journey, an area also relative to various other ‘upper deities’!
And remember, the path of Brookes Tours does intersect a triad of goddesses, as does the path of the Sampo, rather too perfectly, and below that is the system Michel?
And the system Tiamat does sit upon the ridge of the hypothetical ‘mountains’ systems, and hypothetically the path from Pandemonium to Sin to Tiamat goes ‘over’ the mountains!
But if so, why would the Codex initially point us directly to Tiamat / Chaos, then hypothetically draw our attention downwards to the Underworld and by my reconstruction the ‘Lost Reslms’; unless Raxxla was below that area, if the Mother of Galaxies is Chaos, Milton’s pendent world out not to reside there; because it’s hung below heavens brow; it ought to be higher up!
All rather perplexing, but we’re getting closer, our pilgrimage is gaining momentum!
Post in thread 'The Path of The Sampo Device’
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10125313
*currently not in game!
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Philip Coutts
Volunteer Moderator
Interesting you use the term gateway Edelgard. I've often wondered about the connection between Thargoids and Raxxla and if there is one (latterly the Guardians as well). Is it possible that Raxxla was indeed a gateway of sorts that allowed the Thargoids into our Galaxy? Either by luck or other means we obtained their technology and used it to gain FTL? Did the Guardians come through first and share their tech, the Thargoids destroying them when they found out? Was the gateway somehow destroyed either by accident or on purpose to prevent more Thargoids coming through? Did the thargoids then start their seeding of our galaxy to either create their war machines or to try and repair the gate?
Apologies just my idle ramblings and I'm afraid not based on any evidence!
Apologies just my idle ramblings and I'm afraid not based on any evidence!
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That's pretty much exactly what I have thought at various times too!
Many interpretations of the Raxxla Codex have lead to the Pleiades. So many connections between the Raxxla Codex and Thargoids have been proposed. I personally have wondered if the Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 system is the location of the "Raxxla Gate" and the Thargoids are sending messages 'home' via it.
There's plenty of holes in the idea of Thargoids controlling Raxxla, but no more than most others
Just saying, there's a number of planets, moons and stations referencing Peter (as in Peter Jameson). Those should probably be notated and potentially checked.
On the mention of "gateway". We have a hell of a lot of stations with that term in their name. That may be indicative of systems of importance - see https://www.edsm.net/en/search/stations/index/name/+Gateway/sortBy/distanceSol .