'The hell he would,' Rafe said, staring at the younger man from the shimmering holoFac on the bridge. 'The ship that killed Jason was no pirate. He was killed because he'd found something. Something that certain parties were deeply unhappy that he'd found.'...

Who do you think attacked them in 1984, long before the Club et al? Who are the 'certain parties' if not the only existing organisation at that time, the PF who had supposedly found and exploited Raxxla for their own ends? There may have been more references in later games I cant remember. I also think there may have been more in the actual manual which introduced you to the Elite universe but I lost that long ago. Or may have been in an interview in BBC Micro magazine at the time or a hundred other long lost sources.

Overall though, its not important today as its been ret-conned. My question is who is the DW now, are they protectors or the mafia basically, are they separate to the Club? I don't know whats what any more or how many different groups there are or where they fit in....it used to be so simple.
I had a reread of TDW and the 84 manual (copies online) not so long ago for clues to Raxxla and didn't find anything obvious. Unless DB hid strings of cypher code in the ship data, the manual may not help.
 
why would you look for clues for raxxla. they literally have said there would be no clues, no narrative to direct you and no hints as to where raxxla is in the ED galaxy.

In all likelihood it is a non-descript planet that looks like any of the other millions you've traveled across, not named anything special but if you happen to get really close to it and happen to fly over some part of it you will see something that lets you know this is probably raxxla.

It could have already been discovered and just wasn't gone over with a fine toothed comb ...or it could be in some system far ....far away from the jump in point and remain invisible to the system screen until you get within 1000ls of it, but finding it among the background of stars would almost require you to already know exactly where to look to find it.
 
known factas are in doubt on page with two versions of the same story by DW at 2 separate times - both now sourced. Which one is the factual account and which one the misremembered one please?

No the PFand DW split was elsewhere stated explicitly, that just hints at it.

I stated something as my understanding in 1984 and through later Elite until ED, I accept it has changed now. I also said there are other sources which cannot be found today. I have also recanted when I have been wrong or mistaken, I have no problem with that. If you didn't play it in 1984 and you didn't read the articles I read at the time you are looking at 1 novel available as the only source of any info at that time...not very likely is It? And it wasn't, there were interviews in the magazines of the time (BBC Micro, Acorn mag cant remember name of and numerous others I just read but didn't own. Just accept that I remember it one way based on the evidence I had at the time and it can't be resolved either way until DB confirms or denies it. If you can find the articles and interview with IB & DB from 1984 until the last original Elite game Ill gladly go through them, but I need them all please. Impossible isn't it? so lets leave it there and find out where we are today instead.

@Six6VI - I played all original versions of Elite, read everything to do with it and watched anything on TV that mentioned it and now they are all blended in into one story in my head and that was 30 years ago nearly so cant say for sure where or when a particular thing came to light, sorry, cant be any more help.

And the 1984 manual online? I found a colour one online that said it was original so wonder if I found the right one. (original had the wire frame ships in the manual Im pretty sure not the later coloured filled in ones that were on the website I found - happy to recant if anyone finds an original manual and can photo it with coloured ships in) Ive got the games still but none of the manuals. It may have been in later versions or an advert for a future game, it could have been anywhere to be honest.

I do know Raxxla and the DW was never intended to be anything but background fluff until ED, that's why they aren't in any of the previous versions and is my understanding of why they got ret-conned so harshly, to make them fit. Now it is apparently official that they are in game an do mean something. What and where I don't know. Which is why I keep asking who are the DW supposed to be now, where do they fit in to ED universe, not 1984 Elite universe? Any 'clues' or info from 1984 wouldn't be relevant anyway now, not that there were any, it didn't exist remember. Dont think it will help anything but my understanding but Id like to know :)

And I keep hearing that the books written for ED have now been ret-conned too, is this true anyone or just another myth to fill the lack of info? Yelboc do you know?
 
known factas are in doubt on page with two versions of the same story by DW at 2 separate times - both now sourced. Which one is the factual account and which one the misremembered one please?

No the PFand DW split was elsewhere stated explicitly, that just hints at it.

I stated something as my understanding in 1984 and through later Elite until ED, I accept it has changed now. I also said there are other sources which cannot be found today. I have also recanted when I have been wrong or mistaken, I have no problem with that. If you didn't play it in 1984 and you didn't read the articles I read at the time you are looking at 1 novel available as the only source of any info at that time...not very likely is It? And it wasn't, there were interviews in the magazines of the time (BBC Micro, Acorn mag cant remember name of and numerous others I just read but didn't own. Just accept that I remember it one way based on the evidence I had at the time and it can't be resolved either way until DB confirms or denies it. If you can find the articles and interview with IB & DB from 1984 until the last original Elite game Ill gladly go through them, but I need them all please. Impossible isn't it? so lets leave it there and find out where we are today instead.

@Six6VI - I played all original versions of Elite, read everything to do with it and watched anything on TV that mentioned it and now they are all blended in into one story in my head and that was 30 years ago nearly so cant say for sure where or when a particular thing came to light, sorry, cant be any more help.

And the 1984 manual online? I found a colour one online that said it was original so wonder if I found the right one. (original had the wire frame ships in the manual Im pretty sure not the later coloured filled in ones that were on the website I found - happy to recant if anyone finds an original manual and can photo it with coloured ships in) Ive got the games still but none of the manuals. It may have been in later versions or an advert for a future game, it could have been anywhere to be honest.

I do know Raxxla and the DW was never intended to be anything but background fluff until ED, that's why they aren't in any of the previous versions and is my understanding of why they got ret-conned so harshly, to make them fit. Now it is apparently official that they are in game an do mean something. What and where I don't know. Which is why I keep asking who are the DW supposed to be now, where do they fit in to ED universe, not 1984 Elite universe? Any 'clues' or info from 1984 wouldn't be relevant anyway now, not that there were any, it didn't exist remember. Dont think it will help anything but my understanding but Id like to know :)

And I keep hearing that the books written for ED have now been ret-conned too, is this true anyone or just another myth to fill the lack of info? Yelboc do you know?

Ian bell has the manual in text form. I have a copy from FD of the original - am looking for the link it came from - please bear with.

http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/

not heard direct evidence for ret-conning of the official novels, but Drew did point out some changes to hyperspace lore. AFAIK we have to assume that official novels are canon.

The'84 novella should probably be treated as a story or myth in the ED context, only true in flavour.
 
Ian bell has the manual in text form. I have a copy from FD of the original - am looking for the link it came from - please bear with.

http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/

not heard direct evidence for ret-conning of the official novels, but Drew did point out some changes to hyperspace lore. AFAIK we have to assume that official novels are canon.

The'84 novella should probably be treated as a story or myth in the ED context, only true in flavour.

https://openretro.org/file/37a540d376344ac9add72431ecf70ab46dfb7fe4

though I can't guarantee that this is not a breach of copyright... the copy I have didn't in fact come from FD link, btw - bad memory!

[edit:] I should add that there is 0 mention of Raxxla and the DW in this manual - partly as it would have been written before the novella was complete.
 
Fdev has stated only the new novels after Ed was released are Canon.
Interview with braben stated it would not be hinted at in any way.

I go by those facts and not third parties
 
2200-2220's Early hyperspace was invented.

2230-2260's Achenar was founded.

2280 A Nonhuman relic about the size of a childs hand was found buried on Mars.

2296 The first recorded mention of Raxxla was stated in Tau Ceti.

All information provided by in game beacons or codex. In places where exact years were fuzzy I gave an educated guess.
 
why would you look for clues for raxxla. they literally have said there would be no clues, no narrative to direct you and no hints as to where raxxla is in the ED galaxy.

In all likelihood it is a non-descript planet that looks like any of the other millions you've traveled across, not named anything special but if you happen to get really close to it and happen to fly over some part of it you will see something that lets you know this is probably raxxla.

It could have already been discovered and just wasn't gone over with a fine toothed comb ...or it could be in some system far ....far away from the jump in point and remain invisible to the system screen until you get within 1000ls of it, but finding it among the background of stars would almost require you to already know exactly where to look to find it.
Have you logged in and played recently? The FSS is clunky but it can pick out a PPOI from the primary.

Although, would be handy if the FSS could identify human stations on the ground like the ones in space.
 
@Six6VI - I played all original versions of Elite, read everything to do with it and watched anything on TV that mentioned it and now they are all blended in into one story in my head and that was 30 years ago nearly so cant say for sure where or when a particular thing came to light, sorry, cant be any more help.

And the 1984 manual online? I found a colour one online that said it was original so wonder if I found the right one. (original had the wire frame ships in the manual Im pretty sure not the later coloured filled in ones that were on the website I found - happy to recant if anyone finds an original manual and can photo it with coloured ships in) Ive got the games still but none of the manuals. It may have been in later versions or an advert for a future game, it could have been anywhere to be honest.
Sounds like a nasty case of the CRAFT (Can't Remember A Freakin Thing) ... (Or space madness o7)

Speaking from experience cough BBC B cough the specifics escape me too. Pretty sure the manual I had was greyscale with shaded ships and we may have read the same one online? As far as up to the day or so (+/- sleep I presume?) information on the current wild goose chase, the OP in this thread is it!
 
https://openretro.org/file/37a540d376344ac9add72431ecf70ab46dfb7fe4

though I can't guarantee that this is not a breach of copyright... the copy I have didn't in fact come from FD link, btw - bad memory!

[edit:] I should add that there is 0 mention of Raxxla and the DW in this manual - partly as it would have been written before the novella was complete.
That... looks... familiar... I could have sworn the welcome to the manual message was at the start of the combat section, not the beginning of the book, but I could be wrong (craft moment). Thought I saw it said somewhere that Robert wrote the manual as well, unsure which came first but I agree Raxxla ain't in it.
 
What if what you're looking for isn't actually in the lore, or is actually in the most unlikely lore? Or both.?
I see what you did there... ;)
jedi-300x257.jpg
 
2200-2220's Early hyperspace was invented.

2230-2260's Achenar was founded.

2280 A Nonhuman relic about the size of a childs hand was found buried on Mars.

2296 The first recorded mention of Raxxla was stated in Tau Ceti.

All information provided by in game beacons or codex. In places where exact years were fuzzy I gave an educated guess.
Ah! I'm glad you showed up, I want a refund on this DSS probe radius upgrade you did last week! 🤪

Ahh, if only we could sort the nav beacon codex by alpha or numeric so it's a bit easier to see what you already have and which ones are still missing. Keep an eye on Galnet for stories about famous explorers offering PAX missions with temporary sector permits to grant access to currently locked areas... I wish...
 
There's always more to be said...

What I mean to say is that in my research there appears to be a hidden story line. Something involving the Guardians, mostly their AI.
Holdstock's, The Alien World, is pretty far fetched and rumored to have no bearing on Elite, it tells of building the great pyramids in Egypt and pointing them At the stars, which was the wrong thing to do. The great pyramids are connected to Orion through the Orion Correlation Theory. Now if you bookmark the 3 stars in Orion's Belt, you will find Barnard's Loop is in the middle of it. Why does the story line up with the mysterious nature of Barnard's Loop and its limited access?
Mind you with the Thargoids moving in Witchead pushes them closer to Orion. We have 2 mysterious systems in the Orion Nebula, Labyrinth and The Veil
Not to mention that 1 of the only 2 factions operating in Orion Nebula is the democratic Save Space Party. Did you know there are 4 planets named Democracy in the bubble?

Then you have the Hitchhiker's Guide connections being found and in that story is the mysterious and missing planet Marathea which is located in the Horsehead Nebula
(permit locked), in Barnard's Loop.
"Magrathea is an ancient planet located in orbit around the twin suns Soulianis and Rahm in the heart of the Horsehead Nebula.
It was the home of a new form of specialist industry: custom-made, luxury planet building. "
What's that about?

Next you have several connections to Simulation Theory, which is where the Guardian AI come in. The idea that life is a Sim through several Philip K "easter eggs" in game. And ultimately Elite is a Sim and also takes place in the future. Ultimately these connections function through the simulations ran by World Craft Theme Park in Epsilon Eridani. Likely truly ran by the Guardian AI. Sirius provides the power generators to the parks according to lore and tourist beacons. At one point World Craft were the leaders of terraforming but Sirius took the lead. This is an important thing to consider, reason being is that it has to do with ability to create life, terraforming.

Back to WorldCraft and the sim. Punch Major into your nav and hit search 4x. You will be brought to Arcturus, Van Maanen's Star, Epsilon Eridani, and the high pop Agricultural system Pi-Fang , home to the stations Brooks Estate (M.Brooks) and Cartier's Port (Cartier is a Diamond. Remember Pink Floyd connection from Tau Ceti and the prism).
Fully allied with and mapped all 4 Major systems. No in-game result besides a tip-off or 2.

First off, Arcturus. It's in the Bootes constellation, and Arcturus was known as Arcas, the mythological king of Arcadia.
Arcas is a gas giant in Arcturus. Bootis is constellation used for navigation in Homer's Odyssey. It's also home to the Bootes Void, the Great Nothing.
A vast empty area of space void of galaxies.
Bootes was the mythological representation of Enlil, the ancient Sumerian God that founded Eden with Enki in the Sumerian Records.
In the Arcturus system you will see that there is the planet Major, Richard's Rock, and Discovery, in a line. Major, Richard, Discovery.
Orbiting Richard's Rock is Fort Harrison. Richard/Harrison. Richard is another word for D*ck. PKD.
Harrison Ford was a Blade Runner who hunted and killed AI. The deleted scenes show that he himself too was a Replicant. This is you as a member of the Elite galaxy.
A Major/PKD/Discovery. You think your actions don't influence things, but they do. Your actions, individually, impact the story of Elite. We're just as much characters in the story as the NPC's. There's also an outpost called Abel. Recall Cain killing Abel in the bible. Brooks wants to kill you, metaphorically. This is your initiation. More on this later.

Next Van Maanen's Star. First of all, the permit must be acquired through Tau Ceti. Oddly specific. Next the permit cannot be obtained without the permission of
"The Guardians". This is of course the Guardians of The Free Spirit which are from Frontier First Encounters, in the same system then too.
This is likely be the first point of Guardian Contact for us. Within the system we have 1 named planet, Major.

Next, Epsilon Eridani. Home to World Craft Theme Parks and the simulation. It has the planet New California. Blade Runner took place in California and it was a wreck.
It's also got Major's Mine, and Goldstein's Rock. Did you know that there are 9 planets named Gold? Did you know that the Eridanus Constellation is one of the rivers to Hades and it flows through over 20 stars from Achenar, past Betelgeuse, and to the Horsehead Nebula? Horsehead, Hitchhiker's Guide/Magrathea. Is this a map?

Lastly Pi-Fang. 2 named planets, Cooper's Reward and Major's Wreck. It also has the station Brooks Estate and Cartier's Port.
Michael Brooks. Cartier is a world class Diamond manufacturer. Diamonds are prisms. They are found underground and as such are associated with the underworld.
Recall the Prism system and its star, Diamond. We also have Diamond's Rock in Alkaid which is in the Big Dipper.
There are in fact several Diamond stations, all worth a visit.
There are also several Diamonds bodies, Hope in Gateway, and Diamond's Rock in Alkaid being just 2 of them.

One of the most inspirational and most listened to Pink Floyd songs (do I need to remind you how that works into this?) is Shine On You Crazy Diamond.
"Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun
Shine on you crazy diamond
Now there's a look in your eyes, like black holes in the sky
Shine on you crazy diamond
You were caught on the crossfire of childhood and stardom
Blown on the steel breeze
Come on you target for faraway laughter
Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine"

Back to PKD. See the system Laka. Note that it has AdelaidePoonToon (more on this later) plus 2 planets named after mountains as well as the Shoulder of Orion station. This, as some of you know, is from Blade Runner. The real shoulder of Orion is his right shoulder, Betelgeuse.
"in a deleted scene from the 1998 film Soldier (written by David Peoples as a "spin-off sidequel-spiritual successor" to Blade Runner), it was a warp station.
The battle and Tannhäuser Gate itself are shown on-screen in one of the film's deleted scenes." -fandom

Now back to AdelaidePoonToon. Laka (the system) has the ELW Kai-Kapu and the myth is a Polynesian Hero Tale about Laka and his venture in the Kai Kapu cave
after receiving a pontoon from the gods for his journey to recover the bones of his father.
This is important because we have the station as a Warp Station according to fandom and Elite Dangerous takes place in the future.
In this future, you and I and everyone are dead. The bones of your father are metaphorically your bones.
If you recover the bones you return as the hero who risked life and limb to regain his honor. And Life occurs, growth happens for that person.
The initiation has been passed. Cain (Brooks) kills Abel (your immature self being Abel.) Child becomes Adult.

In PKD's story, VALIS it tells about how we are all living in a prison in the future in the Sirius star system. We are in a sim, and no one knows it according to it.
And yes, there is a VALIS system. Fully mapped+allied=Nothing.
"In March, 1974, Horselover Fat experiences visions of a pink (Floyd) beam of light that he calls Zebra and interprets as a theophany exposing hidden facts about the reality of our universe, and a group of others join him in researching these matters. One of their theories is that there is some kind of alien space probe in orbit around Earth, and that it is aiding them in their quest" [...] "Once, in a cheap science fiction novel, Fat had come across a perfect description of the Black Iron Prison, but set in the far future. So if you superimposed the past (ancient Rome) over the present (California in the twentieth century) and superimposed the far future world of The Android Cried Me a River over that, you got the Empire, as the supra- or trans-temporal constant. Everyone who had ever lived was literally surrounded by the iron walls of the prison; they were all inside it and none of them knew it." - VALIS

Myths are metaphors, intended to be interpreted as such, not in a literal sense. They can be experienced, but not proven, unless that experience reflects the power of that message through an obvious growth in that person's character.

Now...Cora/Persephone and the ability to terraform.
The 9th discovered planet in Sol was named Persephone. This is our theorized planet X in 2019.
"Persephone, also known in previous centuries as Planet 9, is an icy body ten times the mass of Earth and the furthest planet from the Sun in the Sol system. "
Cora is the Personification of Agriculture, Life. Growth. If you find her, Life occurs, within you. Change happens. Due to the incredible power of the sim.
You bridge the sims, connecting 3305 to current life. A travel from the milky way to an alternate galaxy has occurred.
You in 3305 returns with the bones of your Father, you in 2019. A metaphorical return to Earth, a return from your journey. Home.

The photos are the stars (mom of Cora) Demeter B1, Ereshkigal C (Ereshkigal was the goddess of the Sumerian underworld),
and the planet Eden (Sumerians found Eden first) orbiting Proxima Centauri and Hutton Orbital in Alpha Centauri.
Eden is the closest match I've personally ever found to the image of the Dark Wheel codex.

*Edit- Tannhauser Gate is the warp station, not the Shoulder of Orion. The Tannhauser Gate station is located in the Aztlan system. Aztlan is the mythical birthplace of the Aztecs in the Amazon.
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. "- Blade Runner

359320_20190429190240_1.png359320_20190907200249_1.png359320_20190509195824_1.png
 
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Ah! I'm glad you showed up, I want a refund on this DSS probe radius upgrade you did last week! 🤪

Ahh, if only we could sort the nav beacon codex by alpha or numeric so it's a bit easier to see what you already have and which ones are still missing. Keep an eye on Galnet for stories about famous explorers offering PAX missions with temporary sector permits to grant access to currently locked areas... I wish...
"I dunno, your probe launcher looks like it works." launches probe at your ship "No refunds." said ships' left landing gear collapses

Nothing else of note really happens between 2200 and 2296. I'm willing to bet the classified nonhuman artifact plays into how the Raxxla legend began. It's not hard to think that a nonhuman classified artifact spawned the legend of Raxxla as a byproduct of wild speculation. However, the fact the artifact is to this day still classified over 1100 years later is of note.
 
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So, what happened to the legend of Raxxla post 2296? It spread like wildfire throughout backwater space bars and in hushed tones across boardroom tables. Good luck mapping that mess!

So in 2280 the pre Birthright Wars Federation higher ups knew about the Mars Artifact. What if I track the individual corporate splits? Possibly a corporation that went/stayed Independent had knowledge of the relic. The trail starts in 2900.

P.S. Now that I've re read this post only one Corporation comes to mind. Sirius! It's a stretch to think the Feds pre 2900 shared info between corporations mind you...

Now that the history of the myth's origins have been opened up, any thoughts? Scytale, Han, Jorki, Macros?
 
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