It would certainly make for a sensible reason for DW being in Shinrarta, and also the original requirement to be elite before you could become a DW member. 🧐

@Han_Zen/Simulacrae: When did pirate npc come into the game? Have they always been in, or was it more recently?
Pirate NPCs? They have been pretty much from the beginning i think... I still remember the gold trap that came out in the wings update?.... was all excited about scooping up some canisters of gold and the a wing of npcs jumped me.... was awesome... died so quicly. :)
 
It would certainly make for a sensible reason for DW being in Shinrarta, and also the original requirement to be elite before you could become a DW member. 🧐

@Han_Zen/Simulacrae: When did pirate npc come into the game? Have they always been in, or was it more recently?
Always been pirates in the game. At least in USS, rings and belt instances. It took some time before they started interdicting. Not much though. Even that was in the game early. Perhaps from version 1.1?
 
@Han_Zen/Simulacrae: thanks guys, knew I could rely on your memories!

I’m currently working an hypothesis (very thin & speculative) in a system where there are lots of pirate USS, so allied with the main local faction then shipped my Corvette over and doing some BH, though my hand problems are probably going to terminate this line if enquiry. Was pondering whether hunting pirates could be the DW test, but of course that would mean pirates had to be in-game from the outset.

Might try further cargo missions since I seem to remember an FD comment that reputation continues to rise...ah, just checked & he seems to be talking about Superpower rep

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/passenger-mission-dont-provide-rank-progression.336994/post-5277153
"All missions which provide reputation provide rank progression. Rank progression is directly derived as a function of the reputation earned with a superpower-aligned faction during a mission.
...Even if the top end of allied is the cap for an individual faction, you can still earn reputation, you just don't get a change in reputation. When a mission ends, if it wants to give a reputation award it will tell the webserver that. At the same time, it calculates the superpower "skill" that corresponds to that reputation award and tells the webserver to apply that, too. If the webserver comes back and says "Sorry, nope, the commander is already the most beloved, the apple of this faction's eye; I'm not gonna increase their rep", this doesn't block the superpower skill from increasing."
 
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On a side note, I wonder selling the cartographics data from these systems to TDW in Shinrarta might trigger an invitation....

The more I ponder this idea, the more is sounds plausible. Delivering them the data from these two systems could serve as the proof that you are worthy.
It does sound plausible, and as I said earlier it would explain TDW presence in SD and the original need to be elite (SD permit) to find Raxxla. However a further thought occured- it is too stochastic. If you sell the system data for those systems elsewhere, which is most likely for most players, then they could never pass this test since you can only discover a system once. I don’t think DB/MB would allow that for the DW test as it would lock out most players from having a chance. For example when I was testing my Argonautica hypothesis I travelled the route then sold the data at the end system (Erio) on the assumption that one of the local factions was DW-affiliated (“wheels within wheels” clue from Premonition) -it wouldn’t have been logical in that context to sell the data at SD.

It is perhaps more likely that your travel history has to include a defined set of systems which then triggers a skill test which must be a passenger, cargo, or data retrieval mission (I discount assassination etc missions since TDW are explorers & adventurers).
 
KS Backers got an SD permit without any requirement for Elite....

When was DW in LFT 926 at the ground base, was it always there or did it jump out of SD? (and for some BGS reason I dont understand expanding from SD was made more difficult for the DW). Before TTW Mick and others, me included, tried to expand it from 926.

But was it there as an 'accessible' DW contact for non Elite from the start?
 
My memory is bad, but I think TDW only expanded out of SD into LFT 926 after a long while, presumably with some player BGS assistance. Does a galnet search give you the date? Edit: nope it doesn’ t, just checked both Heinrich & the French searchable galnet sites. Very little on either LFT 926 or Dark Wheel in galnet!!

Edit: I think the only reason for needing elite to find Raxxla came from Holdstock’s novella, and it was sort of supported by the Elite/Founder missions at Jameson which then disappeared. I still think it’s strange that FD people commented that those missions should still be there (must document those posts!) so maybe they are the DW test and an additional step was introduced before they appear???but I believe several players completed those missions and nothing happened? Perhaps had to do them several times??

Edit2: have updated the FD references thread (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/fdev-ed-relevant-quotes-videos.553526/#post-8671776) on this. Seems questions on those missing missions initially got a couple of “should still be there, will check” responses which later took on a “nothing to comment at this stage”. That seems highly suggestive to me. IMHO FD do seem to admit when they’ve made a mistake and attempt to correct it, but when the message becomes “nothing to say at this stage” I get the impression that it is related to an in-game secret & they seem to become over-secretive, probably not wishing to say anything in case their response gives too much away and spoils the gameplay. So I’m speculating that either those missions are still in the game and need a trigger of some form before they appear, or they were the DW test and a stepping stone to Raxxla but have been updated/replaced by some other test. Don’t think either possibility really helps us though 🥺

In case it’s the first possibility has anyone continued to take on gameplay recently at SD for the DW there? Perhaps we now need to do lots for them?
 
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Yea in this search I don’t think it matters if someone has been there previously.

I’ll tell you guys one thing though, these Camelopardalis systems have more than one “errors“ in their generation. There’s “Camemopardalis” the typo, and then 2 Camelopardalis system has a star in it labeled 53 Camelopardalis even though there is a completemy separate 53 Camelopardalis system nearby. Not that this means anything but it’s interesting.

I’ll check out CS Camelopardalis when I get on later, thanks for recommending it.
You are right, but most of the time the systems have already been mapped. If someone has mapped a system, I don't spend more time to search for anything because I think that there is nothing more to find.
By the way I'm back in the bubble and went straight to CS Camelopardalis. Nothing. Just a huge blue supergiant. No planets, no asteroid clusters .. just empty space.
Now I'm zig-zagging my way back home, visiting the remaining camelopardalis systems. But I suppose there is nothing special too.

As I'm writing I had another frightening thought .. what if a lone commander has found something interesting, mapped the planet, discovered some cool stuff ... and kept it for himself? No forum, no youtube, nothing, maybe because he is not this "social guy". Maybe he stopped playing ED for years.
panic :LOL:
I'm not interested in re-scanning everything. The haystack just got bigger ..
We need much bigger magnets to find this needle ...
 
Rochester got me interested, so spent a day googling Norse mythology. Some interesting tidbits, in-game systems enboldened:

Frigg (possibly Freya or Freyja) = Queen of the Æsir (one of the two tribes of Norse gods, home Asgard) and the goddess of the sky (but no jewel???); Other tribe being Vanir, home Vanaheim. Asgard is located in the sky and is connected to Midgard, the world of humanity, by the rainbow bridge Bifrost (rainbow being a jewel?)
Jörd, (Old Norse: “Earth”) also called Fjörgyn, or Hlódyn, a giantess, mother of the deity Thor and mistress of the god Odin. Jord is in-game.

Ran goddess of the sea was mentioned in the context of drowning unfortunate seafarers and dragging them down to dwell in her underwater abode, so could be a siren, Aegir was god of the sea; they had 9 daughters but none seem to be in-game. Jormungandr is a giant serpent who is a child of Loki’s and the giantess Angrboda, in-game as Jormungand, Odin threw the serpent into that deep sea which lies round all lands, and this serpent grew so that it lies in the midst of the ocean encircling all lands and bites on its own tail.

Freya embodied the female seer of the Norse religion who had the ability to tinker with the seidr – magic pertaining to destiny and its ‘weaving’. Freya was also regarded among the Norse goddesses as the ruler of the afterlife realm Folkvang, which allowed her to choose half of the warriors who were slain in battle (the other half were guided by the Valkyries to Odin’s hall Valhalla)

Hel, female ruler of the netherworld (also called Helheim where Vikings went who didn't die in battle), who was the daughter of Loki and the giant Angrboda. Hel is in-game

Ginnungagap ("magical (and creative) power-filled space") was the vast, primordial void that existed prior to the creation of the manifest universe.

Odin= vagabond; the one-eyed (“For those with eyes to see”) All-Father, haggard wanderer who relentlessly sought knowledge. Norse mythology associates Odin with wisdom, healing, death, royalty, the gallows (hung himself from Yggdrasil, wounded himself with his spear, and fasted from food and drink for nine days and nights in order to get the runes), knowledge, war, battle, victory, sorcery, poetry, frenzy, and the runic alphabet. He had many sons (i.e. lover?). Also called Wotan/Wodan/Woden (i.e. Woe den/dan?). "Wednesday's child is full of woe" alludes to Odin, who has never being attributed with any cheerful disposition. His symbol was a cross in a circle. On another occasion, he ventured to Mimir’s Well (the Well of Urd, whose waters impart cosmic knowledge) amongst the roots of the world-tree Yggdrasil; he asked Mimir the guardian for a drink from the water. The well’s guardian, knowing the value of such a draught, refused unless the seeker offered an eye in return. Mimir, whose name means “The Rememberer,” seems to have been the being who told the gods how to live in accordance with ancestral tradition, and with wisdom more generally. So in spiritual terms Odin sacrificed his “lower self” to his “higher self.” And his sacrifice of an eye indicates he exchanged a mundane mode of perception for a sacred mode informed by divine, ancestral wisdom. Odin’s Wisdom is in-game.

Odin’s grief at his son Baldr’s death?

In Marvel comics Loki (Loki Tan, Loki Tstae, tan translates to ‘ton’ or ‘so much’, tstae translates as ‘tstar’-a font, song, rapper, company name, or could anagram to ‘state/taste/teats/atest/tseta) was depicted as a member of the Olympian gods exiled to the Underworld. God of mischief, malicious sorcerer. Loki could take female form, including as the Scarlet Witch. Loki was killed by the Void, & reincarnated as a young street hustler going by the name of Serrure (the French word for lock). Lock-significant?? As in “lock that is also the key”

Jewel->Bifrost, Jord
whisperer->Loki Tan? Loki Tstae?
siren->Jormungand, Hel
Grief-> Baldr
Woe/Vagabond’s desire->Odin’s Wisdom
(which at ~900ly could require an expedition (Holdstock-do we have a date for the novella against the current game timeline??), and might appeal to a group of adventurers/explorers).
 
It does sound plausible, and as I said earlier it would explain TDW presence in SD and the original need to be elite (SD permit) to find Raxxla. However a further thought occured- it is too stochastic. If you sell the system data for those systems elsewhere, which is most likely for most players, then they could never pass this test since you can only discover a system once. I don’t think DB/MB would allow that for the DW test as it would lock out most players from having a chance. For example when I was testing my Argonautica hypothesis I travelled the route then sold the data at the end system (Erio) on the assumption that one of the local factions was DW-affiliated (“wheels within wheels” clue from Premonition) -it wouldn’t have been logical in that context to sell the data at SD.

It is perhaps more likely that your travel history has to include a defined set of systems which then triggers a skill test which must be a passenger, cargo, or data retrieval mission (I discount assassination etc missions since TDW are explorers & adventurers).
Looking at the time requirement and possible skill required, I'm not sure if I can complete the task. I'll give you what I have, see what you make of it, likely you're a better pilot than I am.
 
You cant leave it like that!

Jorki has done his hand in killing scouts, share it here if youre willing, your names on it if it comes to anything dont worry about that.

I have to admit Im intrigued as you said theres no myth involved so would love to see what you came up with. Even if its wrong it may trigger someone else to think something. Im 90% certain theres no myth involved. Just lore and in-game myth maybe.

No pressure, but any time, Ill read it.
 
You cant leave it like that!

Jorki has done his hand in killing scouts, share it here if youre willing, your names on it if it comes to anything dont worry about that.

I have to admit Im intrigued as you said theres no myth involved so would love to see what you came up with. Even if its wrong it may trigger someone else to think something. Im 90% certain theres no myth involved. Just lore and in-game myth maybe.

No pressure, but any time, Ill read it.
I didn't give up, just not sure if I can succeed. Gotta go two places way outside my pitiful range of 5k ly.
 
I didn't give up, just not sure if I can succeed. Gotta go two places way outside my pitiful range of 5k ly.
My piloting skills are limited at the moment, I’m not enjoying pirate-bashing because of my hand problems.
For anyone interested I’m in Ejagham, solely because it has the only tourist beacon that refers to lovers (“lover’s Woe”)-twin ice moons, also a type F star- I remembered the picture of the old start menu screen which showed an F/A star and two ice moons (impossibly close together, but I think FD like to manipulate visual scale) with an orbiting station-always thought that was a clue! I also am dubious about mythological “clues” and think the solution really ought to be in-game. The Yggdrasil t-shirt was the one thing that gave me pause for thought - I’ve always been suspicious of that “there will be no clues” statement; DB/MB wouldn’t leave such an Easter egg as Raxxla solvable only by pure chance in a 4 billion to one probability, and I think it likely that MB’s sense of humour might lead him to say that while wearing an obvious clue, same thought about his tattoo.

There’s no difference in difficulty between 5kly and 100ly, the way to climb a mountain is to take it one step at a time! Just ensure your ship is properly equipped and engineered for a long journey. But yes, we’d like to hear your hypothesis. We might not believe it, but if someone likes it they will check it out. Might be me, might be Vetinari, Macros, Han_Zen, Simulacrae, Edelgard (where is he? Not been in contact for a while!) or someone else. I’m way past the point of personally wanting the find, I just want it (or at least TDW invitation!) to be found by someone; I’ve got a problem-solver type of mind and the Quest is getting a little boring!

One thing that occurred to me while lying in bed last night was that we know TDW are antagonistic to The Club, and were keen to expose The Club’s Dynasty plot, elitism, and historic manipulation of humanity. So a possible membership requirement might be to have visited all the Dynasty bases and read the message logs (which are stored in your commander’s database...convenient for testing by “TDW”). I’ve done FRift and Conflux (during DW2) bases, but haven’t yet been to the Hawking’s Gap bases. Anybody done all of them? It would be a lot of travel and therefore could appeal to a band of explorers and adventurers!
 
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Looking at the time requirement and possible skill required, I'm not sure if I can complete the task. I'll give you what I have, see what you make of it, likely you're a better pilot than I am.
As @Jorki Rasalas said just start climbing the mountain. Or catch a ride a fleet carrier. Don't have one (yet), so can't offer a ride unfortunately.

I'm thinking of visiting lightning lagrange clouds with an Imperial Cutter, so that might be a good case for a FC.
 
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KS Backers got an SD permit without any requirement for Elite....

When was DW in LFT 926 at the ground base, was it always there or did it jump out of SD? (and for some BGS reason I dont understand expanding from SD was made more difficult for the DW). Before TTW Mick and others, me included, tried to expand it from 926.

But was it there as an 'accessible' DW contact for non Elite from the start?
Not only KS backers got the SD permit. I only had beta access and I've always had it.

Not sure if that was intended or a mistake from FD. There have been a few temporary permits issued in the game. I still have them all.
 
I'll give this explanation a try, may have to edit a few times for clarity. There are currently two ways of interpreting the results that I can not yet rule out until I have made the first journey (I'm on the way, had to get a high jump range ship, engineer it and unlock a Guardian FSD); however, they all result from the premise. When considering this view of the toast, do not conflate this with finding Raxxla, or dismissing it out of hand due what we believe are constrains on the location and distance of Raxxla. What this toast leads to, I have no idea.

The solution seems simple, or rather 'obvious', and fits with a group of "legendary explorers and treasure seekers".


Solution 1: The toast is a short description of the journey that all members of The Dark Wheel must complete to join.
To the jewel that burns on the brow of the mother of galaxies. - Your starting location.​
To the whisperer in witchspace, the siren of the deepest void. - Your end location.​
The parent's grief, the lover's woe, and the yearning of our vagabond hearts. - Parents and lovers response to a long dangerous journey not knowing if or when you'll return and our drive to explore and discover what is out there. (*edit notice there is to "To", this part doesn't describe a location)​
To Raxxla! - The ultimate goal.​
Mission: A flight line from starting location to the remote location to travel without dying (also turning in cartographics data as proof?). A journey that everyone must make for themselves. The two locations are significant to an explorer, the view you see with your eyes.​
Solution 2: The toast describes a location where something is to be revealed.
To the jewel that burns on the brow of the mother of galaxies. - Your starting location to view from.​
To the whisperer in witchspace, the siren of the deepest void. - Your end location to for alignment visually.​
The parent's grief, the lover's woe, and the yearning of our vagabond hearts. - Parents and lovers response to a long dangerous journey not knowing if or when you'll return and our drive to explore and discover what is out there. (*edit notice there is to "To", this part doesn't describe a location)​
To Raxxla! - The ultimate goal.​

Mission: Fly to Point A, align yourself with Point B to see something.​
Starting location is Source 2, its the jewel that burns on the brow of the mother of galaxies Sagittarius A*. Seeing the view and understanding just how large the galaxy is.

End location is located on the very edge of the galaxy, it is a whisperer in witchspace (FDev Video FSS), and it is a siren (dangerous creatures, who lured nearby sailors with their enchanting music and singing voices to shipwreck on the rocky coast of their island). This indicates a Neutron star on the edge of the deepest void, edited intergalactic space. This location also gives views of the galaxy from the outside in.

I'm on the way to Sag A to test solution 2, using the super massive black hole lensing to see if something appears when orienting your ship, black hole and destination point in a line. If nothing presents itself, I'll be taking on solution 1.

When I reach Sag A, if anyone else is there doing the same.. we can chat over outer edge system possibilities.. I think I know the correct one, but not 100% sure. Hope to see a few people there trying.
 
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I like it, havent seen that interpretation exactly before :)

Have wondered if go above or below Galaxy, if you can see a star that burns brighter than the rest, I went up once near Sag A but didnt look as not thought about at the time.
 
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