The Quest To Find Raxxla

[Louis Calvert]

I was also talking to our friendly AI about witch-space and Raxxla today

Spoiler: Chatting about Hyperspace and Raxxla

Just saying it for anyone that doesn't know at this point cos of hiding under a rock. Chat GPT is a cool robot that has the ability to make anything sound factual, but in reality most of it isn't. I was using it here to bounce ideas off and see if it said anything interesting - I think it did a good job of summarising the topic.

And some stuff from real folks from years back makes me wonder if we've just gotten so used to the whispers that we stopped thinking about them?:

Spoiler: Posts about the whispers

Galnet 3303 Hyperspace
"Even today, hyperspace remains poorly understood. Many pilots have reported glimpsing inexplicable lights, and even structures, within the witch-space tunnels. It may be centuries before all of its mysteries are unravelled."

FORMIDINE RIFT ALPHA MISSION 2/6
"Expedition Log: 28/08/3270
Could have sworn I heard some weird voices in the last jump. "

FORMIDINE RIFT ALPHA MISSION 5/6
"Expedition Log: 07/10/3270
“I can’t bear another jump. The lights in witch-space are coming for me, the lights… always the lights… they’re calling to me… a siren song… I must join them…”

Someone has to have done some sort of Canonn-style analysis of the whispers??

 

[Rochester]

The thing about hyperspace is, it’s just a loading screen.

Now it’s not outside the reach of plausibility to set an incursion zone, and any transgression into that zone ought to trigger a sound in the loading screen period.

However such a mechanism would be very obvious, unless you specifically toned this noise down so it was inexplicable.

Now FD has always used sound as a mechanism since day one, sadly in my opinion this is a design flaw because their are some of us with hearing impairments, so logically if such a mechanism existed you ought to apply a secondary visual cue too… if that were the case such a mechanism ought to be obvious. So we ought to have found this by now.

Again we fall into that old chestnut, does a mechanism exist in game that only applies to one element, or has it been utilised for other elements - see Thargoid interceptions.

Disregarding that, the reference to the Siren of the deepest void in the Codex initially has always made me think of those Galnet ‘Whispers’ stories, so for me it has always been the most logical outcome, with those stories acting as way points, and either a sound exists at those points (?) or those points themselves correlate somehow?

Personally I have never gotten around to investigating this, as there has usually been some other distraction.

 

[Ughkoff]

Got a system name?

PSR J0024-7204O but maybe I was too hot, it's very difficult to get there.

I'm working with the theory where Braben said that it is enough to have a regular scanner. I’m trying to build routes from Tau Ceti towards the center of the galaxy. We know that with a “scanner” we can hear the “call of the serenas” by directing our ship exactly to the center of the galaxy. (Omphalos this means not only the navel, but also “center”, which can mean exactly the center of the galaxy). For now I’m looking for a rift somewhere nearby, going into the arms of the galaxy. So far no success. Considering the picture that we can get by analyzing the sounds of serens (a certain mountain or something similar, and put it on a map)

 

[Louis Calvert]

The thing about hyperspace is, it’s just a loading screen.

... a door that's also a key?

Oddly, a loading screen for Elite Dangerous works kinda exactly like Hyperspace: a non-space transit between two 'real' places... and you can't reach a system without Hyperspace, so mechanically, it's both a door to other systems and a key to access other systems.

Now it’s not outside the reach of plausibility to set an incursion zone, and any transgression into that zone ought to trigger a sound in the loading screen period.

However such a mechanism would be very obvious, unless you specifically toned this noise down so it was inexplicable.

1.3 Changelog. IIRC they tweaked this a few times?

Now FD has always used sound as a mechanism since day one, sadly in my opinion this is a design flaw because their are some of us with hearing impairments, so logically if such a mechanism existed you ought to apply a secondary visual cue too… if that were the case such a mechanism ought to be obvious. So we ought to have found this by now.

... well, don't you have to make some of it a little bit obvious?

But, joking aside, most people ignore Hyperspace. I can't be the only one that pretty much zones out during jumps. After all... hyperspace is just a loading screen right?

Again we fall it that old chestnut, dies a mechanism exist in game that only applies to one element, or has it been utilised for other elements - see Thargoids interceptions.

It's entirely possible that this is the case. Thargoid Hyperdictions are always the proof that Hyperspace 'loading screens' can be seamlessly switched out for 'content'.

Disregarding that, the reference to the Siren of the deepest void in the Codex initially has always made me think of those Galnet ‘Whispers’ stories, so for me it has always been the most logical outcome, with those stories acting as way points, and either a sound exists at those points (?) or those points themselves correlate somehow?

Personally I have never gotten around to investigating this, as there has usually been some other distraction.

Oh interesting, which ones are they? The only "whisper" keyword that shows up for me is the Thetis, Shamash, and one from 3304 where someone talks about whispered rumours.

Thetis and Shamash signals aren't whispers in witch-space; they're very specifically radio signals in realspace. Sirens very specifically sing to try to entice passing sailors towards them (to be eaten); The Thetis signal sends people psychopathic and murderous within minutes.

The Codex Entry is quite specific:

To the whisperer in witch-space, the siren of the deepest void!

'The whisperer' is singular. This sentence structure indicates the 'siren of the deepest void' is the 'whisperer in witch-space'. If we assume this means Raxxla (because that's the structure of the Toast, linguistically), then the most-likely interpretation of the codex is simply that: 'Raxxla is the jewel that burns on the brow of the Milky Way, it's the whisperer in witch-space, the siren of the deepest void, it's the parent's grief, the lover's woe, and it's the yearning of The Dark Wheel's heart'.

I'm still searching for any info on whether anyone's tried to investigate the whispers before, can't seem to find anything at all?

 

[Bushido Brown]

PSR J0024-7204O but maybe I was too hot, it's very difficult to get there.

I recall people talking about this cluster. No known way of getting there IIRC.

 

[Rochester]

... a door that's also a key?

Oddly, a loading screen for Elite Dangerous works kinda exactly like Hyperspace: a non-space transit between two 'real' places... and you can't reach a system without Hyperspace, so mechanically, it's both a door to other systems and a key to access other systems.

1.3 Changelog. IIRC they tweaked this a few times?
View attachment 375570

... well, don't you have to make some of it a little bit obvious?

But, joking aside, most people ignore Hyperspace. I can't be the only one that pretty much zones out during jumps. After all... hyperspace is just a loading screen right?

It's entirely possible that this is the case. Thargoid Hyperdictions are always the proof that Hyperspace 'loading screens' can be seamlessly switched out for 'content'.


Oh interesting, which ones are they? The only "whisper" keyword that shows up for me is the Thetis, Shamash, and one from 3304 where someone talks about whispered rumours.

Thetis and Shamash signals aren't whispers in witch-space; they're very specifically radio signals in realspace. Sirens very specifically sing to try to entice passing sailors towards them (to be eaten); The Thetis signal sends people psychopathic and murderous within minutes.

The Codex Entry is quite specific:

'The whisperer' is singular. This sentence structure indicates the 'siren of the deepest void' is the 'whisperer in witch-space'. If we assume this means Raxxla (because that's the structure of the Toast, linguistically), then the most-likely interpretation of the codex is simply that: 'Raxxla is the jewel that burns on the brow of the Milky Way, it's the whisperer in witch-space, the siren of the deepest void, it's the parent's grief, the lover's woe, and it's the yearning of The Dark Wheel's heart'.

I'm still searching for any info on whether anyone's tried to investigate the whispers before, can't seem to find anything at all?

The obvious references are those regarding the Thetis and Shamash. Personally at 6am I can’t recall any others. Right now.

However, very interestingly this location is suspiciously close to my new ‘Realm of Chaos’ / ‘Pendant World’ theory.

Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10264516

The next phase of the above hypothesis of mine was to draw a line of sight between the hypothetical throne of Chaos ‘Tiamat’ and between that of ‘The Fall’.

Another was to investigate the line of sight between Shibboleth and then upwards towards Badb of the Morrigan system, aligned perfectly!

In Paradise Lost Satan was driven out of a particular point in heaven, and fell straight down. Later when he escaped Hell with the help of his daughter Sin (Sinn) who followed him upwards, then built a bridge for him, he flew upward randomly until he found the realm of the deity Chaos, who gave him directions to the pendant world - which was described as being close to where Satan had been cast out.

If we add the location of the Thetis and Shamash, then we find they aren’t very far off this path…if this is an obvious clue then one possibility is Raxxla - aka the Pendant world, is in this location, near the brow of heavens wall (upper triangle which represents the Morrigan).

 

[Han_Zen]

Regarding the whisper in witch space. This does not have to be overly complex, to be a possible implementation of the Raxxla mystery.
Even though the hyperspace sequence is a loading screen, it's not entirely static. It does change a bit, depending on the target star. Some form of data is loaded into the sequence animation. The sound probably has the same option.

We know there are hidden systems in the game. At release you could search the galmap for test or test2, and the map would move to locations in the central bubble. one of them was very close to Sol. You cold not select them jump to them. They were used by FD for testing.

FD could easily made another hidden system and put Raxxla in it. If so they would only have to override your target system for the hyperspace jump, if all the required criteria were in place. If they use Shinrarta Dezhra as either the jump from system or target system, you even get the Elite requirement for free.

 

[Shadowsnog]

i still think that part of road to raxxla is some kind of exotic fsd behaviour. misjumps (as they were) arent in the game anymore, but perhaps there are some conditions that still could trigger some kind of unnatural jump.
so ive been wondering what kind of situation would make sense to cause fsd to malfunction in this way. perhaps something that only an elite could do. and it occured to me that we can jump ships from exclusion zones of stars.
wouldnt it make sense that white dwarves and neutron stars, which are able to supercharge our fsd, would be able to super-supercharge the fsd when successfully jumping from its exclusion zone? i tried it once (long time ago, by a mistake ^^ ) and it certainly seemed to be a challenge for a skilled pilot in a well equipped ship... maybe theres some kind of supercharge to be achieved in wolf-rayet stars. maybe we just need to drop to sag a, position to have the bh between ship and sol, target sol, synth jumponium and engage... maybe i dont really know where i want to take this, but it seem to me like a possibility, so im just going to leave it here ^^ ill do some testing sometimes and if i find anything ill come back

 

[Ughkoff]

We know there are hidden systems in the game. At release you could search the galmap for test or test2, and the map would move to locations in the central bubble. one of them was very close to Sol. You cold not select them jump to them. They were used by FD for testing.

Hmm... curious. can't you remember where it was on the map and how far it is from Tau Ceti?

The solution to this riddle itself should be simple, I am far from thinking that during the crunch before launching the game, Braben sat in encyclopedias about Ancient Greek or Egyptian mythology (at least to such a deep level as we are currently looking for) in order to fit this Raxxla secret into the framework of such things. And although the game is full of such names, these people (devs) are still closer to mathematics, logic, etc. than to theology and philosophy. Therefore the solution should be simple, a mystery at the level of 2012-2015 (if it really exists)

By the way, doesn’t the jump into witch space itself give some kind of signal that draws some pictures, like a signal from the center of the galaxy?

 

[El Saico]

Regarding the whisper in witch space. This does not have to be overly complex, to be a possible implementation of the Raxxla mystery.
Even though the hyperspace sequence is a loading screen, it's not entirely static. It does change a bit, depending on the target star. Some form of data is loaded into the sequence animation. The sound probably has the same option.

We know there are hidden systems in the game. At release you could search the galmap for test or test2, and the map would move to locations in the central bubble. one of them was very close to Sol. You cold not select them jump to them. They were used by FD for testing.

FD could easily made another hidden system and put Raxxla in it. If so they would only have to override your target system for the hyperspace jump, if all the required criteria were in place. If they use Shinrarta Dezhra as either the jump from system or target system, you even get the Elite requirement for free.

Case in point: Ross 54, which IRL is an alternative name to LFT 509 - curiously, a long-suspected host to the Dark Wheel station - but represents an unplottable different location.
They attempted to fix this, so searching by its name points to LFT 509 instead, but a different alternative name (HIP 34104) still shows it.

Hmm... curious. can't you remember where it was on the map and how far it is from Tau Ceti?

The solution to this riddle itself should be simple, I am far from thinking that during the crunch before launching the game, Braben sat in encyclopedias about Ancient Greek or Egyptian mythology (at least to such a deep level as we are currently looking for) in order to fit this Raxxla secret into the framework of such things. And although the game is full of such names, these people (devs) are still closer to mathematics, logic, etc. than to theology and philosophy. Therefore the solution should be simple, a mystery at the level of 2012-2015 (if it really exists)

By the way, doesn’t the jump into witch space itself give some kind of signal that draws some pictures, like a signal from the center of the galaxy?

Here's the thing though: Raxxla was not a Braben invention, but a Michael Brookes one.

And, as Drew Wagar said in his memorial tour (which I'm watching right now) he loved to make his puzzles as complex as possible. The Thargoid Probe was cited as an example - when placed in a planetary atmosphere, it emits an audio burst containing binary-encoded data of the planet:

• Some attributes (temperature, gravity, radius) expressed as a fraction of those of Merope 5 c
• The atmospheric, represented by each molecule's composition (number of atoms of each element + its atomic number) and its percentage expressed as a fraction
• The distance to Col 70 Sector FY-N c21-3, in terms of the distance between that system and Merope

Canonn's article has a guide to decode this information, it's quite a read: https://canonn.science/codex/unknown-probe/

Since Raxxla was designed as his magnum opus, and a secret he literally took to his grave (Braben is supposedly the only other person to know its location), a very convoluted solution is to be expected.

 

[Han_Zen]

Hmm... curious. can't you remember where it was on the map and how far it is from Tau Ceti?

The solution to this riddle itself should be simple, I am far from thinking that during the crunch before launching the game, Braben sat in encyclopedias about Ancient Greek or Egyptian mythology (at least to such a deep level as we are currently looking for) in order to fit this Raxxla secret into the framework of such things. And although the game is full of such names, these people (devs) are still closer to mathematics, logic, etc. than to theology and philosophy. Therefore the solution should be simple, a mystery at the level of 2012-2015 (if it really exists)

By the way, doesn’t the jump into witch space itself give some kind of signal that draws some pictures, like a signal from the center of the galaxy?

I don't remember the direction, but it's very close to Sol. As you can see here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/a8nbfc

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/a8nbfc/so_the_test_system_where_is_that_exactly/

It pops up in missions sometimes. This was probably after an update, before patching.
Just from memory I want to say 1.2 ly from Sol, but take that with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Edelgard von Rhein]

Regarding the whisper in witch space. This does not have to be overly complex, to be a possible implementation of the Raxxla mystery.
Even though the hyperspace sequence is a loading screen, it's not entirely static. It does change a bit, depending on the target star. Some form of data is loaded into the sequence animation. The sound probably has the same option.

We know there are hidden systems in the game. At release you could search the galmap for test or test2, and the map would move to locations in the central bubble. one of them was very close to Sol. You cold not select them jump to them. They were used by FD for testing.

FD could easily made another hidden system and put Raxxla in it. If so they would only have to override your target system for the hyperspace jump, if all the required criteria were in place. If they use Shinrarta Dezhra as either the jump from system or target system, you even get the Elite requirement for free.

I knew of test systems (I think that there even used to be a star in one that appeared on the skybox from surrounding systems - the Sol test lights or something iirc) but I did not know that they were searchable in the Galaxy Map.

It would not then be inconceivable for Raxxla to be searchable but under a different name - and maybe there is something else in the game that will provide us with that name, that lurks in the Lost Realms? If that is the case, then it fits the old lore (Jason Ryder finding evidence for Raxxla's existence but needing an expedition to get there) and it could be right under our noses (as somewhere 200LY or so from Sol is these days). Alternatively, Raxxla itself might be in the Lost Realms but the clue could be anywhere, even in a book, perhaps, without being in-game.

 

[Han_Zen]

I knew of test systems (I think that there even used to be a star in one that appeared on the skybox from surrounding systems - the Sol test lights or something iirc) but I did not know that they were searchable in the Galaxy Map.

It would not then be inconceivable for Raxxla to be searchable but under a different name - and maybe there is something else in the game that will provide us with that name, that lurks in the Lost Realms? If that is the case, then it fits the old lore (Jason Ryder finding evidence for Raxxla's existence but needing an expedition to get there) and it could be right under our noses (as somewhere 200LY or so from Sol is these days). Alternatively, Raxxla itself might be in the Lost Realms but the clue could be anywhere, even in a book, perhaps, without being in-game.

They just used to be searchable. They aren't any more.

There isn't anything mysterious about the test systems. FD talked about them openly when asked. Like EvR said, they were used for light testing among other things. I just wanted to highlight that there are mechanics to hide entire systems, in the game and that they have been there since release.

 

[Rochester]

The obvious references are those regarding the Thetis and Shamash. Personally at 6am I can’t recall any others. Right now.

However, very interestingly this location is suspiciously close to my new ‘Realm of Chaos’ / ‘Pendant World’ theory.

Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10264516

View attachment 375605

The next phase of the above hypothesis of mine was to draw a line of sight between the hypothetical throne of Chaos ‘Tiamat’ and between that of ‘The Fall’.

In Paradise Lost Satan was driven out of a particular point in heaven, and fell straight down. Later when he escaped Hell with the help of his daughter Sin (Sinn) who followed him upwards, then built a bridge for him, he flew upward randomly until he found the realm of the deity Chaos, who gave him directions to the pendant world - which was described as being close to where Satan had been cast out.

If we add the location of the Thetis and Shamash, then we find they aren’t very far off this path…if this is an obvious clue then one possibility is Raxxla - aka the Pendant world, is in this location, near the brow of heavens wall (upper triangle which represents the Morrigan).

View attachment 375606

In an update on this hypothesis, the location of the Thetis and Shamash is slap bang upon an alignment of the Moirai, in game!

*Image below shows the areas of influence of the Thetis and Shamash. The Moirai is shown as a white triangle. Following image is the same, but influence areas removed. For myself I find this a revelation!

What follows is when I overlay the Norse Norns, we find they build an alignment with a hypothetical ceiling of the heavens?

Again personally I find this entire construct absolutely beautiful and a real work of genius, Frontier Developments need to be applauding this cosmological model, which perfectly marries various theologies, the works of Milton and Holdstock into something which presumably was built by Brookes, thats absolutely astonishing to perceive and behold.

There exists a relationship with Thetis and Shamash which I feel goes towards linking it to Raxxla, and that is with the story of Gilgamesh.

Ninsun is the mother of Gilgamesh and helps him by and convincing Shamash to protect her son. In a similar fashion Thetis protects her son Achilles. The link falls upon the parallels between these two demi-gods who share a fair few similarities. Of note Achilles is not in game, so does Gilgamesh represent him in game?

Love, Loss, Lions: The Similarities Between Achilles and Gilgamesh | TheCollector

As shown by the many similarities between Achilles and Gilgamesh, Greek literary traditions were heavily influenced by Mesopotamian traditions.

www.thecollector.com

Gilgamesh is of importance because there are a great deal of deities linked to his epic in game, this epic involves a trip to a magical land or ‘Otherworld’ as well as a trip to the Underworld…

This is rather an enormous breakthrough, because that epic involves a creation myth, and many of these systems in game seem to align with other systems, denoting the realms of heaven and the underworld…

Here is the map animated - for context:

 

[Ughkoff]

Here's the thing though: Raxxla was not a Braben invention, but a Michael Brookes one.

And, as Drew Wagar said in his memorial tour (which I'm watching right now) he loved to make his puzzles as complex as possible. The Thargoid Probe was cited as an example - when placed in a planetary atmosphere, it emits an audio burst containing binary-encoded data of the planet:

• Some attributes (temperature, gravity, radius) expressed as a fraction of those of Merope 5 c
• The atmospheric, represented by each molecule's composition (number of atoms of each element + its atomic number) and its percentage expressed as a fraction
• The distance to Col 70 Sector FY-N c21-3, in terms of the distance between that system and Merope

Canonn's article has a guide to decode this information, it's quite a read: https://canonn.science/codex/unknown-probe/

Since Raxxla was designed as his magnum opus, and a secret he literally took to his grave (Braben is supposedly the only other person to know its location), a very convoluted solution is to be expected.

Not in that sense. Even if Michael Brooks is behind it, it won't be something very complex, and so deeply connected to the legends. it will be something that was on the game's release (the Thargoid probe came much later). These will be some kind of markers that point to this place, for example Tau Ceti, a star spiral (aka Wolf-Rayet Stars), some kind of rift, etc. This is something that can be visited on initial ships with a jump of up to 15-20 light years (aka Cobra 3). This is something on a scale, similar to the player first opening a closed system in order to be able to rob a convoy and get only 10,000 credits. this will not be a generated world, this will be something made by the hands of programmers. That's what the developers were inspired by at that time. A puzzle that the player could put together and reach the goal

For example, where is the codex about the Dark Wheel, this is a kind of explanatory moment for a new player on how to get into Shinrarta. where the conditions for contacting them are explained. A new player must go a long way, go through his story, raising his rank. And finally receiving the coveted Elite rank, pilot received access to the most Elite place in the game (at that time) and touched the Dark Wheel. (Initially, raising the rank was very difficult and took a long time, plus the money was ridiculous). With Raxla there will be something in the same sense, but maybe more complicated and requiring more attention

Most likely, not only Braben knows this secret. At a minimum, the Game Designer should know this

 

[selbie]

Listened to it a couple of times using headphones and I couldn't hear the breathing....

Is there a good quality original sound file around? Not had a look at the landscape signal in a while...

The FLAC from the Canonn page
I'm surprised it's not recognisable. Imagine slow breaths as though a person is in deep sleep and breathing through a mask.
Here's how I hear it.

 

[Shadowsnog]

The FLAC from the Canonn page
I'm surprised it's not recognisable. Imagine slow breaths as though a person is in deep sleep and breathing through a mask.
Here's how I hear it.
View attachment 375638

Its not very obvious and can be easily mistook for just a noise (which is why im not really 100% on this). But it does sound kinda like vader...

 

[Rochester]

I’ve never gotten involved within the landscape signal, however I noticed how Cmdrs describe the signal as looking like a mountain range.

My own research into Holdstock, Gilgamesh, Milton, the Celtic Otherworld and Norse Yggdrasil, has identified a recurring theme of ‘mountains’. Michael Brookes likewise talked of mountains in his blogs and writings and I have a suspicion this is a reference to the cosmological world mountain.

In game I may have uncovered a series of systems and bodies named after real life mount ranges, these are all relatively close together, within the area of influence of our Raxxla research, a few segments of this hypothetical range do correlate visually with other constellations, which may identify its intentional.

I do wonder if the landscape signal is a huge clue, and simply is an encoded visual message transmitting a communication to look at mountains in game?

The brow mentioned within the Codex I now suspect is a reference to the brow of a mountain range, outlined in Paradise Lost as the exterior wall of heaven. This mountain/s may also double as the passageway to the Otherworld, or where upon that mountain the deceased go to rest…

Interestingly the origin for the word Fernweh outlined in the Codex, originated out of a 19th-Century German romantic naturist movement, and relates to a yearning for distant lands.

Source: https://youtu.be/LIPc1cfS-oQ?si=q38KTrqDjiWPqYNv

 

[Ughkoff]

The FLAC from the Canonn page
I'm surprised it's not recognisable. Imagine slow breaths as though a person is in deep sleep and breathing through a mask.
Here's how I hear it.
View attachment 375638

there is something similar to inhaling and exhaling after the middle of the recording. This is not necessarily something organic, but the rise and fall is recorded... at least by my gadget and the sound settings on the headphones. If this is a simulation of Sagittarius A - Frontiers really tried

 

[selbie]

there is something similar to inhaling and exhaling after the middle of the recording. This is not necessarily something organic, but the rise and fall is recorded... at least by my gadget and the sound settings on the headphones. If this is a simulation of Sagittarius A - Frontiers really tried

It does require a lot of editing to isolate the sound from all of the humming and whirring going on. Even if it was just a really creative way to generate an ambient sound of the Milky Way / SagA* from a simple gas mask then it has been a fun exercise in deconstructing the sound designer's work

In saying that, it would be great if there are longer recordings of it somewhere. 2 minutes is a very small sample size, so perhaps a larger clip would help determine if it is an actual rhythmic 'breathing' effect.
EDIT: Nevermind, it sounds like from Canonn's expedition research the audio typically repeats just under the 2 minute mark.