Ya on a basic level I like it because it has Odysseus now as the explorer - not just trying to get home. He is out there looking for knowledge - the bit about Cicero and the Sirens is great! It definitely fits in with the Idea that the Sirens were associated with the music of the spheres and as such would have access to "forbidden knowledge".
The Quest To Find Raxxla
- Thread starter Macros Black
- Start date
Ya on a basic level I like it because it has Odysseus now as the explorer - not just trying to get home. He is out there looking for knowledge - the bit about Cicero and the Sirens is great! It definitely fits in with the Idea that the Sirens were associated with the music of the spheres and as such would have access to "forbidden knowledge".
Odysseus as a tragic figure led astray by the allure of forbidden knowledge does tie up the Dark Wheel's toast and the Paradise Lost allusions neatly.
Something else I had in mind: assuming Raxxla is, or hosts, forbidden fruit, it might be a thing that leads to knowledge yet all superpowers agree on never unleashing upon humanity - I'd argue machine sentience fits that description very well.
It's also strongly associated with the Guardians (already prime suspects per Halsey's visions) and ultimately doomed their civilization...
I had mapped these previously but did not follow them up any further. Below I have tried to replicate your work, and maybe identify a few findings.
Many of the Titan names are actually replicated in game as named systems, bar two?
Cocijo ( 31.31 -52.62 19.03 )
Hadad ( 9.88 57.84 20.59 )
Taranis ( -52.53 18.47 -28.69 )
Thor ( 60.38 15.25 -9.25 )
Indra ( -60.66 -18.12 -7.50 )
Leigong. No associated system?
Oya. No associated system?
Rainjin ( 121.47 -68.87 -0.37 )
Here are the actual titan locations:
Cocijo = Col 285 Sector BA-P c6-18
Hadad = HIP 30377
Taranis = Hyades Sector FB-N b7-6
Thor = Col 285 Sector IG-O c6-5
Indra = HIP 2056
Leigong = HIP 8887
Oya = Cephei Sector BV-Y B4
Rainjin = Pegasi Sector IH-U b3-3
Titan actual systems:
Col 285 Sector BA-P c6-18 = ( 157.28 14.97 -103.87 )
HIP 30377 = ( 178.78 -81.72 -47.94 ) m
Hyades Sector FB-N b7-6 = ( 88.44 -74.91 -122.00 )
Col 285 Sector IG-O c6-5 = ( 125.50 -169.75 -97.12 )
HIP 20567 = ( -2.81 -63.81 -162.44 )
HIP 8887 = ( -66.44 -144.41 -106.28 )
Cephei Sector BV-Y B4 = ( -97.81 44.31 -83.84 )
Pegasi Sector IH-U b3-3 = ( -147.56 -61.78 -27.50 )
All the titans (as we all already know) share a common naming meaning:
Cocijo = lightning
Hadad = storm and rain god
Taranis = thunder god
Thor = lightning, thunder, storms
Indra = lightning, weather, thunder, storms, rains
Leigong = thunder
Oya = wind, lightning and storms
Rainjin = thunder
The following image shows systems that share naming with Titans in yellow, overlaid with all the systems named after the older gods ‘deities’.
Assumptions: it’s possible the Titans naming are utilised to advertise these ‘storm’ systems and the wider cosmology eg the zone of chaos but there are only eight Titans where as the storm gods are more prevalent, they do not form any succinct pattern neither.
The following image shows the Titans linked to their namesake systems.
Assumptions: there does not seem to be any direct correlative pattern or relationships linking Titans with their namesake systems, there is no focal point nor common alignment cross over paths.
The following image shows all Titans linked together into two diamonds, in relation to their namesake systems.
Assumptions: these Titans would seem to be in a distinct pattern, each side although not precise is relatively the same distance, and their midpoints are similar. They would seem to encircle these namesake systems and or the general bubble but nothing is conclusive. A centroid may advocate a focal point but these diamonds are not uniform.
The following image shows all Titans linked together into two diamonds, overlaid with systems named after the older gods ‘deities’.
Assumptions: these Titans would seem to encircle these systems and or the general bubble but nothing is directly conclusive. Their pattern although distinct shows they don’t focus on one particular group of systems namely eg the zone of chaos nor the Lost Realms, their focal point looks to be just off here. A centroid may advocate a focal point but these diamonds are not uniform.
My older assessments still stand, I’ll attempt to access a better more mathematically accurate centroid…
Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10138410
Assumptions: Hypothetically one might roughly calculate the fulcrum of the Mealstroms, but as each ‘diamond’ is not equal it’s an unreliable theory.
Undertaking a very rough projection my investigation places this location somewhere upon the outer rim equator of the zone of Chaos aka the bubble of storm deities, very close to Mat Zemlya; Cocijo and Mamaragan but also Veroandi of the Norse Norns!
Last edited:
Oya is known in Candomblé as Iansã, from her moniker Oya Yansan.
Iansan - star system | Elite:Dangerous | INARA
The companion site for Elite:Dangerous with the game database, market data, trade routes, outfitting, engineers, blueprints, crafting, Thargoid war, squadrons, logbooks, galleries, galaxy information and much more...
inara.cz
Charybdis is in game: it's a dock for capital ships in the Carthage system, or was at least when I wrote my website some years ago.
Homers Odyssey
“To the jewel that burns on the brow of the mother of galaxies. To the whisperer in witch-space. The siren of the deepest void. The parents grief. The Lovers woe and the yearning of our vagab…
vagabondsofraxxla.wordpress.com
Charybdis is in game: it's a dock for capital ships in the Carthage system, or was at least when I wrote my website some years ago.
Homers Odyssey
“To the jewel that burns on the brow of the mother of galaxies. To the whisperer in witch-space. The siren of the deepest void. The parents grief. The Lovers woe and the yearning of our vagab…
Thanks for the tip. And now there's a very interesting route. Only one problem. Between Carthage and Scylla is a lot of systems)
Well, hello there, my fellow Raxxlers! Back after a few years and it's so nice to see you all again and going strong. Also seeing you haven't found the almost-proverbial IT. Tsk tsk tsk...
Anyway, I got a challenge for y'all fine people:
Looking for an interesting system, Kepler-70 is the name given in 2011, in preexisting catalogues aka WISE J194525.47+410534.7, aka all of the ones below (SIMBAD).
None of them are present in Galmap. Apparently it's around 3600 lys in the general direction of delta-Cygni and it has 2 planets as hot as F-STARS, results of a planetary mitosis. Mitosis, which is formed by the separation 2 ASTERS, ('member that no-good Astrophel chick?), in a structure strangely similar to an OMPHALOS. It almost looks like a RIFT. With an (unconfirmed) 3d planetary body between the first two. I wonder what we might find there, hmmm?
Also, we might be after a white-dwarf, since Elite time is about 1300 years later than 2011 and Kepler-70 is about to go pop.
Gimme a shout if you find its name, or a lil' credit if you find IT there.
Anyway, I got a challenge for y'all fine people:
Looking for an interesting system, Kepler-70 is the name given in 2011, in preexisting catalogues aka WISE J194525.47+410534.7, aka all of the ones below (SIMBAD).
| UCAC2 46165657 | KOI-55 | TIC 184427882 | Gaia DR3 2076819620539690880 |
| Kepler-70 | KPD 1943+4058 | UCAC3 263-170867 | Gaia DR2 2076819620539690880 |
| KIC 5807616 | 2MASS J19452546+4105339 | USNO-B1.0 1310-00349976 |
None of them are present in Galmap. Apparently it's around 3600 lys in the general direction of delta-Cygni and it has 2 planets as hot as F-STARS, results of a planetary mitosis. Mitosis, which is formed by the separation 2 ASTERS, ('member that no-good Astrophel chick?), in a structure strangely similar to an OMPHALOS. It almost looks like a RIFT. With an (unconfirmed) 3d planetary body between the first two. I wonder what we might find there, hmmm?
Also, we might be after a white-dwarf, since Elite time is about 1300 years later than 2011 and Kepler-70 is about to go pop.
Gimme a shout if you find its name, or a lil' credit if you find IT there.
Good find. Even if it doesn't lead to any Raxxla clues, it would be an amazing system to visit if it exists. Theoretically the hottest known planet in the ED galaxy.Well, hello there, my fellow Raxxlers! Back after a few years and it's so nice to see you all again and going strong. Also seeing you haven't found the almost-proverbial IT. Tsk tsk tsk...
Anyway, I got a challenge for y'all fine people:
Looking for an interesting system, Kepler-70 is the name given in 2011, in preexisting catalogues aka WISE J194525.47+410534.7, aka all of the ones below (SIMBAD).
UCAC2 46165657 KOI-55 TIC 184427882 Gaia DR3 2076819620539690880 Kepler-70 KPD 1943+4058 UCAC3 263-170867 Gaia DR2 2076819620539690880 KIC 5807616 2MASS J19452546+4105339 USNO-B1.0 1310-00349976
None of them are present in Galmap. Apparently it's around 3600 lys in the general direction of delta-Cygni and it has 2 planets as hot as F-STARS, results of a planetary mitosis. Mitosis, which is formed by the separation 2 ASTERS, ('member that no-good Astrophel chick?), in a structure strangely similar to an OMPHALOS. It almost looks like a RIFT. With an (unconfirmed) 3d planetary body between the first two. I wonder what we might find there, hmmm?
Also, we might be after a white-dwarf, since Elite time is about 1300 years later than 2011 and Kepler-70 is about to go pop.
Gimme a shout if you find its name, or a lil' credit if you find IT there.
NASA has a great visualiser for it
I would initially speculate that it just wasn't generated by Stellar Forge, or the algorithm for calculating its future state and position meant that the system 'dropped off' the radar. However, given the special interest value of it I think it would be a great discovery. ED is famous for allegedly predicting the location of the Trappist 1 system, so who knows how many other planetary systems like it have been accurately predicted.
RAXXLA backwards is ALXXAR.
LXX = 70. The plot thickens...
LXX = 70. The plot thickens...
Another Titanomachia thought came up in my reading:
If Uranus imprisoned Gaia's children - the Hundred-Handed, and Cyclopes, in the Underworld, and they were guarded by the dragon Campe, then a comparison could be made here.
If my earlier idea that the Hundred Handed are ED's equivalent of Engineers - Humans. Then a further extrapolation could be:
If the Cyclopes are a race of skilled and powerful wall-builders and who crafted the lightning bolt for Zeus, then they could be an equivalent to the Guardian race.
The guardians created walls = shields to protect their settlements, and the bolt for zeus = lightning theme across the Guardian tech.
That leaves the dragon Campe. Described as a "jailor", she had the appearance of a female torso with a scaled, snaky sea monster below and was compared to Scylla (thus, a link to Milton's daughter of Satan - him being a figure who sought to overthrow the established power just like Zeus).
So from this perspective, it could be said that we Humans, along with our genetic cousins the Guardians, right now exist in the Underworld, which is being guarded by the serpent-like Thargoid "dragons" who monitor us and keep us imprisoned.
The theme of Legacy is uprising / revolt, and the Beaumont 'clue' within it alludes to this same idea so it does paint a strong theme for what we might see in the game. The question would be what represents Zeus as the figure that 'liberates' humanity and guardians from the dragon? and what power exists that needs to be overthrown - aka Cronus? Are plans afoot to reveal the elder race that created the Thargoids? - assuming we 'conquer' these Titan prison guards...
Are we the star-loving maidens? whose ancestry ('royal' blood) grants us a prophesised birthright to inherit the galaxy? thus we are trapped in a prison of spiralling stars by a paranoid authority who is fearful of our prophesised return?? Is the Omphalos akin to the Stone of Scone? Stone of Jacob? Lia Fáil? the Arthurian 'stone' of Excalibur? thus a symbol of obtaining true inheritance of the galaxy? Is Raxxla the Key to our Salvation?
Speaking of Arthur, have there been any associations with Sir Kay? what if MB was making a play on words and it's - 'the door is the "kay"'
Last edited:
New Holdstock anthology out in August, featuring Allen Stroud.
Heartwood: A Mythago Wood Anthology [trade paperback] Edited by Dan Coxon
AN ANTHOLOGY edited by Dan Coxon PUBLICATION DATE August 2024 COVER AT INTERIOR ILLUSTRATION Vince Haig INTRODUCTION Michael Moorcock PAGES 484 ISBN
pspublishing.co.uk
Last edited:
Also- Et in Arcadia? … Here there be Monsters…. Oh and the Myth of Grief… Hmmmm very susNew Holdstock anthology out in August, featuring Allen Stroud.
Heartwood: A Mythago Wood Anthology [trade paperback] Edited by Dan Coxon
AN ANTHOLOGY edited by Dan Coxon PUBLICATION DATE August 2024 COVER AT INTERIOR ILLUSTRATION Vince Haig INTRODUCTION Michael Moorcock PAGES 484 ISBNpspublishing.co.uk
Edit-
Ok so theses are all themes identified as relating to the works of holdstock - the et in arcadia ego - is a reference to a lost world and probably where Holdstock got that idea for his “Lost Worlds”. These are themes explored by holdstock in his books…. Will be an interesting read.
Last edited:
Yes.
Raxxla was created by Holdstock, not from Elite lore but Holdstock’s. It’s a repeated theme concerning lost realms or otherworldly Edens, and the original ‘a place that’s not a place a door which is also a key’ etc flows from these inspirations. Otherworld’s were liminal spaces opened by ethereal magical objects or ordinary natural doorways or barriers.
My suspicions are, that given the heavy references within the Codex identifying the dense fulcrum of systems all named after such mythical locations, that FD are honouring a large part about where and what Raxxla is by utilising Holdstock lore and or influences. It is not a new invention.
Granted it likely will be mixed with Lovercraft and Milton…elements all of which share similar themes and influences.
Any new text will hopefully provide some fresh perspective. Not necessarily towards understanding Raxxla, but how key players may have interpreted the source material. Or at most provide a fresh perspective lens to view such texts, which may / may not advocate certain repeating themes?
One may but hope.
Raxxla was created by Holdstock, not from Elite lore but Holdstock’s. It’s a repeated theme concerning lost realms or otherworldly Edens, and the original ‘a place that’s not a place a door which is also a key’ etc flows from these inspirations. Otherworld’s were liminal spaces opened by ethereal magical objects or ordinary natural doorways or barriers.
My suspicions are, that given the heavy references within the Codex identifying the dense fulcrum of systems all named after such mythical locations, that FD are honouring a large part about where and what Raxxla is by utilising Holdstock lore and or influences. It is not a new invention.
Granted it likely will be mixed with Lovercraft and Milton…elements all of which share similar themes and influences.
Any new text will hopefully provide some fresh perspective. Not necessarily towards understanding Raxxla, but how key players may have interpreted the source material. Or at most provide a fresh perspective lens to view such texts, which may / may not advocate certain repeating themes?
One may but hope.
Last edited:
Yes i think it will be an interesting read. It also reminded me of my earlier attempts going through Holdstocks works - I had identified Lavondyss from his Mythago series as a similar thing to Raxxla. It is a hodgepodge of names- a combination of Lyonesse, Avalon and Dis. All systems in game - well Dis as Dis Pater… (also another Dante reference). I guess in a way Lavondyss is a Mythago for Raxxla. All these alternate paths via the Myths of Milton, Holdstock, Homer, Dante, Plato, etc… leading to Raxxla is very reminiscent of his paths in the woods.
Looking back - i didnt make the connection then , but it does explain why the area around Achenar has Heaven, Hell, and the Lost Worlds in one area - it is all in how Lavondyss was described…
"Tir-na-nOc, dear Steven, Avalon, Heaven. Call it what you like. It's the unknown land, the beginning of the labyrinth. The place of mystery. The realm guarded not against Man but against Man's curiosity. The inaccessible place. The unknowable, forgotten past" (Mythago Wood 265)
Last edited:
It seems to fit - so we have an inkling of the structure of the paths and a general area. I guess now we just have to put on some masks…. Incidentally there is also a mention of a dark wheel in the book Lavondyss … something to do with a bunch of crows flying up - cant quite remember exactly. Will look it up when i get home.
Ok so i remembered someone had made an interesting article about cartographies of the mythago wood-
Look at figure 3…..
Palimpsets…. Remember…
Ok so i remembered someone had made an interesting article about cartographies of the mythago wood-
Look at figure 3…..
Palimpsets…. Remember…
Last edited:
This is why I believe Raxxla or the path to it exists within the Lost Realm zone. It is both an Easter egg to Holdstock, but likewise a collection of Mythagos.
To be obfuscated upon the outer rim.
To intentionally make something less clear and harder to understand.
What better place to hide something, but within a conglomeration of other mythologies!
It is upon the outer rim of a zone of influence, be this the frontier mentioned in Legacy; the area denoted by the date 2296; or the boundary of this cosmological construct?
I’m trying to visualise Brookes model universe. One speculation is that his universe is not a reflection of that of Milton etc, but an extension. Brookes ‘older gods’ of Lovecraft influence were by his description the true progenitors, so our perception of the universe is biased from the outset.
I find it very insightful that all these ‘lost realms’ - these ‘other Edens’ as Holstock identified, are within the Underworld. This placement, although in contradiction to the Christian layout, is historically accurate.
The concept of ‘Hell and heaven’ as two separate realms, were segregated by distance via a Christian concept, established primarily to denigrate pre-Christian beliefs during periods of migration and invasion. The older concepts revolved around the Underworld being the Otherworld, a place upon the outer-world, the far away but at the same time everywhere.
So the in game localisation looks by my assessment to be correct?
In theory this pendant globe ought to hang from the brow of heaven. Not in hell?
But what if it did. Has Brookes moved Eden and placed it correctly in the Otherworld… or equally accurate, is the path or gate to Raxxla found in the Otherworld?
I find the ‘correct’ placement of these Otherworlds perplexing because in Milton’s universe construction these locations existed - as did Eden ‘within’ the pendant globe not outside of it, it was a universe within a universe.
Satan, having found the pendant globe flys into the globe and downwards, during this period of flight through its internal construction (our universe) he passes innumerable other worlds, likened by Milton to various classical and pagan paradises, where the blessed dwell in bliss.
‘Like those Hesperian gardens famed of old, Fortunate fields, and groves and flowery vales, Thrice happy isles, but who dwelt happy there He stayed not to inquire’.
So in game these said Otherworlds are not in the pendant globe, but are outside of it and technically from a Miltonian perspective - in Hell. Is this actually an indication in game of the true shape of the authors cosmological model, or is it an academic misinterpretation by the in game author?
I think personally this is the true shape of the cosmology, and it is not wholly Miltonian. I speculate the Lost Realms / Otherworlds exist upon an axis, at the base of which grows the tree of Yggdrasil (very Celtic). Technically upon an area denoted in Norse myth as the edge of the world.
The underworld exists in the lower hemisphere, and is made up of all the fallen ‘lower’ Older gods, guardians of the dead and underworld. Above it, a zone of ‘Storm gods’ Older gods or creators gods (similar to Milton’s Chaos - womb of nature); above that the Empyrean, the seat of the Devine.
The whole cosmology I speculate is upon a shifted axis and that internally various mythologies are laid out and follow similar alignments.
Contradictory to this I also speculate that the Miltonian construct is in parts still equally true in game, especially the path Satan used to exit, hell then to travel up through Chaos towards the Empyrean and the pendant globe!
The Empyrean in game likewise has various systems (but not as prolific), that identify similar lost lands or Edens.
Do we need to follow this path, is it identifiable in game (mechanism - direct) or outside the game (lore / environment / narrative) - esoteric). Or can we take a shortcut, if so will we know how to find it?
Irrespective of my wider cosmological observations, my assessment of the codex would advocate it’s telling us to travel and find something below the underworld, I speculate the Codex is also referring to the book Legacy, and some esoteric clue that will help reduce the sphere of this focal point.
Where it takes us next is a total unknown. But I speculate said clue has some contextual or literary link to Holdstock.
To be obfuscated upon the outer rim.
To intentionally make something less clear and harder to understand.
What better place to hide something, but within a conglomeration of other mythologies!
It is upon the outer rim of a zone of influence, be this the frontier mentioned in Legacy; the area denoted by the date 2296; or the boundary of this cosmological construct?
I’m trying to visualise Brookes model universe. One speculation is that his universe is not a reflection of that of Milton etc, but an extension. Brookes ‘older gods’ of Lovecraft influence were by his description the true progenitors, so our perception of the universe is biased from the outset.
I find it very insightful that all these ‘lost realms’ - these ‘other Edens’ as Holstock identified, are within the Underworld. This placement, although in contradiction to the Christian layout, is historically accurate.
The concept of ‘Hell and heaven’ as two separate realms, were segregated by distance via a Christian concept, established primarily to denigrate pre-Christian beliefs during periods of migration and invasion. The older concepts revolved around the Underworld being the Otherworld, a place upon the outer-world, the far away but at the same time everywhere.
So the in game localisation looks by my assessment to be correct?
In theory this pendant globe ought to hang from the brow of heaven. Not in hell?
But what if it did. Has Brookes moved Eden and placed it correctly in the Otherworld… or equally accurate, is the path or gate to Raxxla found in the Otherworld?
I find the ‘correct’ placement of these Otherworlds perplexing because in Milton’s universe construction these locations existed - as did Eden ‘within’ the pendant globe not outside of it, it was a universe within a universe.
Satan, having found the pendant globe flys into the globe and downwards, during this period of flight through its internal construction (our universe) he passes innumerable other worlds, likened by Milton to various classical and pagan paradises, where the blessed dwell in bliss.
‘Like those Hesperian gardens famed of old, Fortunate fields, and groves and flowery vales, Thrice happy isles, but who dwelt happy there He stayed not to inquire’.
So in game these said Otherworlds are not in the pendant globe, but are outside of it and technically from a Miltonian perspective - in Hell. Is this actually an indication in game of the true shape of the authors cosmological model, or is it an academic misinterpretation by the in game author?
I think personally this is the true shape of the cosmology, and it is not wholly Miltonian. I speculate the Lost Realms / Otherworlds exist upon an axis, at the base of which grows the tree of Yggdrasil (very Celtic). Technically upon an area denoted in Norse myth as the edge of the world.
The underworld exists in the lower hemisphere, and is made up of all the fallen ‘lower’ Older gods, guardians of the dead and underworld. Above it, a zone of ‘Storm gods’ Older gods or creators gods (similar to Milton’s Chaos - womb of nature); above that the Empyrean, the seat of the Devine.
The whole cosmology I speculate is upon a shifted axis and that internally various mythologies are laid out and follow similar alignments.
Contradictory to this I also speculate that the Miltonian construct is in parts still equally true in game, especially the path Satan used to exit, hell then to travel up through Chaos towards the Empyrean and the pendant globe!
The Empyrean in game likewise has various systems (but not as prolific), that identify similar lost lands or Edens.
Do we need to follow this path, is it identifiable in game (mechanism - direct) or outside the game (lore / environment / narrative) - esoteric). Or can we take a shortcut, if so will we know how to find it?
Irrespective of my wider cosmological observations, my assessment of the codex would advocate it’s telling us to travel and find something below the underworld, I speculate the Codex is also referring to the book Legacy, and some esoteric clue that will help reduce the sphere of this focal point.
Where it takes us next is a total unknown. But I speculate said clue has some contextual or literary link to Holdstock.
Last edited:
To start off - I think what is being described here is a complete cosmology. It encompasses the whole of the Galaxy and to a certain extent - parts of every story.
There is a description of the creative process involving the creation of the "world" that is being applied to things...
We have the Intellect (or Science) combining with Nature to create the "constructs" or "ideal forms", "archetypes"... but for the grand scale lets just call it a "Seed"
The Seed serves as an initial value (given birth in natures womb), and the algorithms (Demiurge?) use it to generate various aspects of the universe.
There may be one Seed but we are so far down stream from that initial purity that we can never know it directly ( 23114, 584, 46931). The only way to get a sense of it is through passed down memories... Or death - death is another way.
When we take this format and look at the themes associated with Raxxla in the context of Mythagos we get not one path - but many holloways that go into the forest so to speak.
Looking at some of the obvious themes in game, Heaven/Hell Axis - Utopias - Hero Killing the Dragon... Each of these themes has multiple stories associated with them - these "Mythagos" ( I hope im interpreting this right) are shadows of the original seed that was generated. Following any one path will not get us to the answer - we must identify multiple and find convergences. The Milton cosmology, The Ulysses Path... etc... and map them out.
Yup I think this area is probably "key" And the fact that it also contains Achenar makes me think the origin story of the Empire will have more to tell us.
I will say that there are other areas as well that we will need to look at. Thinking about memories passed down through tales - the thunder god fighting the dragon.... a passed down shared memory that referred to the Guardian / Thargoid war...
There is a description of the creative process involving the creation of the "world" that is being applied to things...
We have the Intellect (or Science) combining with Nature to create the "constructs" or "ideal forms", "archetypes"... but for the grand scale lets just call it a "Seed"
The Seed serves as an initial value (given birth in natures womb), and the algorithms (Demiurge?) use it to generate various aspects of the universe.
There may be one Seed but we are so far down stream from that initial purity that we can never know it directly ( 23114, 584, 46931). The only way to get a sense of it is through passed down memories... Or death - death is another way.
When we take this format and look at the themes associated with Raxxla in the context of Mythagos we get not one path - but many holloways that go into the forest so to speak.
Looking at some of the obvious themes in game, Heaven/Hell Axis - Utopias - Hero Killing the Dragon... Each of these themes has multiple stories associated with them - these "Mythagos" ( I hope im interpreting this right) are shadows of the original seed that was generated. Following any one path will not get us to the answer - we must identify multiple and find convergences. The Milton cosmology, The Ulysses Path... etc... and map them out.
Yup I think this area is probably "key" And the fact that it also contains Achenar makes me think the origin story of the Empire will have more to tell us.
I will say that there are other areas as well that we will need to look at. Thinking about memories passed down through tales - the thunder god fighting the dragon.... a passed down shared memory that referred to the Guardian / Thargoid war...
Once again I go to Mark Moxon's Elite source code website to see where that Seed comes into play...
They bootstrap the entire universe as the initial values for system 0 in galaxy 0, and from then on the game's PRNG and procedural algorithms run wild.
The Stellar Forge equivalent must be known only to their backend team - unless they publicized it somewhere. Or maybe, with some hope, the good Dr. Kay Ross remembers it.
This might explain how I came to the idea of our galaxy being akin to Hell. Hell is only hell from the perspective of the Empyrean. To cosmic beings like Chaos and Night, Hell was just another friendly neighbour imposed on them by that pesky "God" guy. What a jerk!
To the ancient Greeks, the Underworld was more like a place concealed 'under' our reality and thus mortals couldn't interact with it directly. Once you were sent there, its guardians made sure there was no escape.
I agree, and ultimately something needs to exist in the game for us to follow. You've built evidence of a cosmological model so far, and so it begs the question which interpretation can reveal a logical path?
The Brookes Tour beacon does directly point us specifically to Book 2, so maybe that is how MB also constrained the search?
In Paradise Lost Book 2, when the fallen spread out to explore Hell and observe its aspects, Milton describes Limbo from line 557:
Others apart sat on a Hill retir'd,
In thoughts more elevate, and reason'd high [a reference to Dante's Castle of Limbo]
Of Providence, Foreknowledge, Will and Fate,
Fixt Fate, free will, foreknowledg absolute,
And found no end, in wandring mazes lost.
From the perspective of Hell's inhabitants, Paradise exists within Hell. So could this help explain why the Lost World systems are present within the Underworld Zone and not 'below' the Empyrean? Limbo was basically a punishment for pagan beliefs before Christianity, so in the context of the system naming this conveniently facilitates incorporation of the other mythologies, and thus obfuscating it enough to be a challenge.
Also in the preceding lines at 545, there is mention of a "silent valley" where the fallen sing 'the devil's song' which 'suspended hell' as they listened.
Could this mean Satan is the siren of the deepest void? and the subject of the toast?
This would point to TDW acolytes being an allegory of the fallen angels. Perhaps this is how TDW see themselves. Powerful beings akin to seraphim.
Satan could be the jewel standing on the brow. The mother of galaxies - Sin, the mother of Death - galaxies evolved from the deaths of the first primordial stars. Whisperer (satan) in witchspace (the void). Parent and lover. Yearning of vagabond (the fallen) hearts.
So perhaps from this one could construct an esoteric path where satan leaves the Empyrean realm, crosses the bridge of souls, enters the gates of hell, and somewhere in the underworld or lost realm we might find Raxxla??
Is there a Castle of Limbo aka TDW Station somewhere to be found?
Last edited:
It is a strange model - I agree the ThunderGods as well as the Nature Goddess seems to form the upper realm of systems in the bubble - somewhat between Sol and Alioth.
As far as the "Underworld" I would argue that is shaped by Holdstocks views - It contains system names mostly which constitute Utopias, Hells and Heavens. He also brought alot of his deeply personal emotions into his work. "The Parents Grief, the Lovers Woe" I suspect speak to some of that. That is why his magical lost place is filled with wonder and horror.
As to the Axis - I think it is fairly straight forward - the Axis of the three major powers Alioth -Sol - Achenar. The Axis of the bubble itself. But what is the Axis outside of the Bubble ?
Will try to get map out this weekend
Another Mythago
Just go to one of the terminals in the Detention Center cells