Star Citizen: This is actually not very clear
The Star Citizen Thread v5
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Star Citizen: This is actually not very clear
Mu77ley
Volunteer Moderator
Oh, dear. 30 minutes in and this is still badly broken.
Pros
* Loads faster than previously
* Better FPS than previously. Solid 60fps at 4k resolution (but I have upgraded from 2xSLId GTX 980s, to a single GTX 1080 since the last time I tried it).
Cons
* FPS immediately drops to 30 as soon as you join the PU.
* Game locks up if you dare to press the B button (yes, I'm using a Xbone controller for those, so shoot me) in the graphics menu. Have to kill the task.
* Unable to enter constellation lift pad from 2 sides of it.
* Combat is still an utter yawn-fest, with absolutely no requirement to manoeuvre. Just throttle to max, and hold the mouse pointer over the enemy ship.
Conclusion
Still utter rubbish
Pros
* Loads faster than previously
* Better FPS than previously. Solid 60fps at 4k resolution (but I have upgraded from 2xSLId GTX 980s, to a single GTX 1080 since the last time I tried it).
Cons
* FPS immediately drops to 30 as soon as you join the PU.
* Game locks up if you dare to press the B button (yes, I'm using a Xbone controller for those, so shoot me) in the graphics menu. Have to kill the task.
* Unable to enter constellation lift pad from 2 sides of it.
* Combat is still an utter yawn-fest, with absolutely no requirement to manoeuvre. Just throttle to max, and hold the mouse pointer over the enemy ship.
Conclusion
Still utter rubbish
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HI Thorn,
as far as I recall, the original flight model involved telling your ship where you wanted it to go, leading to it calculating which engines to fire when in order to get you there. For example, in SC you could move the travel vector up and right, and the ship would work out how to get there; in ED, the commander would first have to roll to the right, then pitch up. Under the SC system, you can have the ship maneuver in all 6 axis with the mouse, even if you can't directly control it. I remember thinking that turning a ship back then in first person, felt pretty much the same as moving your head in a FPS, i.e. the ships had no inertia due to incredibly high (stupidly high) thrust values; reducing this thrust would go a long way towards improving the flight model, and I get the impression that they have done this to some extent.
I've not jumped into SC for 2 years or so, so the flight model could have changed, if only for HOTAS inputs; I imagine mouse would work the same.
I know that CIG have aimed for controller parity, but I also know that it eluded them for a long time. However, from what I've seen it does seem that joystick users have been getting along a lot better than before. One would expect the joystick to dominate, however mouse was the preferred input for a good while, if it's not today.
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But it's the highest detail, greatest polycount, bestest fidelity, most realistic, completely immersive, 100% confirmed Genuine Roberts utter rubbish that has ever existed.
No because if they crash and burn a whole bunch of gamers are going to lose a collective $140m and that wouldn't give me any pleasure whatsoever.
However within that group of gamers there are some individuals whose behaviour concerns me.
Some are just capable of levels of self-deception the likes of which I can't really get a handle on and are therefore able to convince themselves that everything looks perfectly normal. I still have sympathy for those people because I totally understand wanting to believe; hell, I've said enough times that if the game ever appears and actually includes all of the content that has been promised I'll be buying it, in fact I don't know many gamers who wouldn't want to buy it. I don't believe though and it's not because I'm naturally a cynic (I am) but because when Chris says that a game like this has never been made before he's right and there are so many entirely valid technical reasons for that, it's clear that he's having the same conversation that I used to have with my mates when I was twelve or so about the bestest game in the world, only I didn't charge people $140m to listen to me. That group of people need protecting from themselves really.
Some are shilling for CIG in the most classical sense though. Endless posts on forums and reddit that say things like 'the game will feature...' or 'we're going to have...' followed by either repeating the official theorycrafting or often injecting their own. Endless posts on forums and reddit from them attacking people who are not just blindly lashing out at CIG and Roberts but have tried to explain sensibly, calmly and with no shortage of technical detail exactly why and how many aspects of what CIG come out with is literally selling myths as reality.
They're probably the same people who would think asking players to provide photo ID to get a refund is sensible, or who don't see anything even slightly off-kilter about a company who lie repeatedly and obviously about numerous aspects of the game's open (lol) development. For example announcing a meeting to start planning the content for the update that four months earlier they had said would be released about two weeks before that meeting took place, the S42 demo that was allegedly only two days away from being ready but was then allegedly dropped for hilariously bull reasons and hasn't been seen since despite the growing scepticism around the project etc. I mean really, even if you accept the reason for dropping it two days away from completion can anybody seriously believe that they wouldn't have done two days work on it since then to finish it off and put it out there?
They are a cohort of people who genuinely fit all of the main criteria to be considered a cult and like most cults you can't argue with them because they don't hold opinions which have any basis in logic to begin with, it's all blind faith, circular enabling and creating a bunker mentality where critics or the sceptical are all out to get them for no discernible reason other than the fact they are evil people. They're also very vocal in encouraging people to spend more money on the game or to make an initial purchase and that is breathtakingly irresponsible considering the overall situation with the game's development and the fact that people just coming across it for the first time are unlikely to have a full understanding of the position in the round as far as the game's chances of actually getting a release in a way that even vaguely resembles Roberts' fantasies is concerned.
Honestly, I will laugh and laugh and laugh if some of those people are into SC for five grand and lose it because I absolutely despise people like that and I make no apologies whatsoever for it. Those people losing a large amount of money is in fact the only good that could possibly come out of the game folding.
I've come across a group of very similar people before you see. I've been a fan of cycling (road and track) for over 30 years and like most clued up cycling fans, I used to watch Lance Armstrong riding up Alps, away from world class fields that were themselves full of dopers, like he was on a motorbike and knew that I was watching someone who was so doped up it was a miracle he didn't glow in the dark. Yet for years, as he lied, lied and lied again ('What am I on? I'm on my bike, seven hours a day' and all that crap) there was a bunch of Armstrong fanboys who would descend on anyone commenting that he might just possibly have taken a little bit of the bad stuff and hound people both on web forums and in some cases in real life for it.
I have no time for people so desperate to believe something that was clearly a fantasy that they were willing to attack perfectly decent people because of it. I could understand anyone who needed some education to explain why what old Lance was saying was so patently a crock of crap, but I can't excuse supposedly intelligent adults who put their own refusal to challege what was bordering on a religious belief structure for them ahead of common sense and measurable data.
The reason Lance popped into my mind was that one of the most hilariously hubris-filled things he ever came out with (after
I'll say to the people who don't believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics, I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry that you can't dream big. I'm sorry that you don't believe in miracles.'
Replace the word 'cycling' with 'Chris Roberts' or 'Star Citizen' and I bet you could find a post which basically paraphrased that statement on the game forum or reddit inside 30 seconds. It's only a shame Lance didn't say 'You just don't understand professional cycling' to complete the bingo card.
I was walking around with a smile on my face for weeks when he finally got popped. I read the full USADA report and giggled all the way through it and when he went on Oprah I downloaded it and sat here with a bottle of Bollinger laughing like a toddler all the way through it, not least because I was thinking about all of those people who believed in miracles and spent well over ten years slaughtering people online, in the print and visual media on the back of their crank delusions.
So yeah. If you're reading this, have a lot of money in Star Citizen and are spending your time shilling for it in the face of all logic and sense I truly hope that you get the game you're anticipating and if you do, I will welcome you with open arms when you come to rub my face in it.
But if you don't, make sure you remember that I'm laughing at you. Probably with a nice bottle of Bolly.
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Nice rant
BTW everyone in professional sport are doped one way or another, at least those who are in 1,2,3 places. It's everywhere from chess players to weight lifters. It's a fact of life.
sorry for the OT comment.
Nice rant
BTW everyone in professional sport are doped one way or another, at least those who are in 1,2,3 places. It's everywhere from chess players to weight lifters. It's a fact of life.
sorry for the OT comment.
In the main you're right and that's without even getting into the dubious use of things that aren't banned. For a start you'd think that athsma was actually a strong indicator of potential athletic greatness rather than a debilitating disease given the number of elite athletes who take medication for it... However if like me you believe that's a bad thing, you can only try to deal with it a case at a time. It's a self-perpetuating cycle (pun intended) in that it's scum like Armstrong who ultimately create a culture where any young kid, no matter how talented, who wants to break into a sport will one day find himself in a hotel room with a needle in his hand and a decision to make.
End of off topic - apologies but that required a reply.
Yup, regardless if the game is released with a reasonable design or they actually MANAGE to add EVERYTHING, the game is so overhyped that no-one will be satisfied in the end since they inject THEIR wishes for the game.
I COULD see them add everything but in that case they would need several years AFTER release to make all that needed content.
I have no doubt they could make a single player wing commander'esque campaign but that should not suffer in quality or production time due to the persistent universe idea. Which I think it does a bit since they are integrating everything into one thing so without a lot of X mechanics done the Y will not be finished until it's done.
EDIT: I make no bones about it that I tend to WISH for things to be included in a game but what a lot of people forget with kickstarters and similar things is that it's THEIR game they are making, not MY game. Sure, one can try to give suggestion and criticism but in the end it's THEIR game, not MY game.
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It's sad really when it comes to sports. The moment MONEY seem to enter it the sportsmanship takes an exit stage right for many people and WINNING no matter what is the main thing.
Thankfully we still see good sportmanship but nowadays they are seldom the winners due to cheating.
+1 Very nicely put.
Mu77ley
Volunteer Moderator
On thing I've realised over the last couple of years of intermittently playing Star Citizen, is that if space legs in ED (when we eventually get it) is as bad as the walking around stuff in SC, then the game would really be better off without it.
Issues with clipping through your ship whilst trying to find the <<USE>> button (now renamed to give an indication of what you're trying to use), and terribly cramped ships where, in first person view it means you're spending most of your time staring at a wall textures wondering which direction you need to turn to find the ladder to get out (yes, I stole some commando's Mustang which was inexplicably sitting upside down on the landing pad), and totally unusable in 3rd person as there's nowhere for the camera to sit. Even the slightly larger Constellation has similar issues.
Basically the walking around stuff adds nothing to the game other than getting in the way of doing things (not that there's anything much to do in SC still).
Issues with clipping through your ship whilst trying to find the <<USE>> button (now renamed to give an indication of what you're trying to use), and terribly cramped ships where, in first person view it means you're spending most of your time staring at a wall textures wondering which direction you need to turn to find the ladder to get out (yes, I stole some commando's Mustang which was inexplicably sitting upside down on the landing pad), and totally unusable in 3rd person as there's nowhere for the camera to sit. Even the slightly larger Constellation has similar issues.
Basically the walking around stuff adds nothing to the game other than getting in the way of doing things (not that there's anything much to do in SC still).
This is the nightmare problem with walking around. In the fans imagination it's like a "real life" version of The Expanse and just thrilling - in reality it's a lot of waiting around and just sitting while someone else flies somewhere or a lot of trekking down corridors to find the right office.
Within a narrative driven single player experience that's easily managed and can be scripted and filled with events to make it fun but in a freeform MMO galaxy? Stuffed. I cringe at some of what people dream of for either game
Within a narrative driven single player experience that's easily managed and can be scripted and filled with events to make it fun but in a freeform MMO galaxy? Stuffed. I cringe at some of what people dream of for either game
Don't worry, SC is there to scare other developers by its example, so they won't repeat the same mistakes in their own games.
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There's certainly big list of issues to solve before you can even touch proper space legs on ship. I think people who dream of space legs entertain idea of GTA in space, don't realise that GTA games are really are just cop muder sims and really don't care of immersion or realism. They don't have complex machinery to manage or driver around neither.
They also most certainly don't realize how much GTAV did cost to make and how much work was done to make city to feel alive.
However that said it CAN be done. Multiple FPS have done this and certainly from technical stand point there's very little road blocks. However, it takes and skill. You get a point about that walking should be extra, it shouldn't get in a way to fly ship for example. For ED space legs for certain places I care for certain things - for ships - exploring interiors, customizing them alone would be worth price tag. However, then you get boarding, repairs, solving potential mysteries, etc. It can be extra.
I actually had the same thought. However i did really enjoy being able to go in Bars in Freelancer (it wasn't really space-legs) more like scripted cut scenes but i would like space legs to go in bars and meet peeps pickup custom missions ect. im not interested in the fps aspect of legs so much but the exploration and interaction aspects.
Also now that i think about it the animation for how we get in our ships now from the srv is really very nice. Same with with SLF.
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Well, I don't know about others, but I would play such game. However, majority of gamers just won't. And I guess that's major point here. You can't burn millions to make glorified ship corridor walker - you won't make your money back.
However, I believe there's player base for such game with lower fidelity than ED or SC. I would certainly check it out. I believe it can be made interesting as well.
edit: also you CAN make such interesting events for MMO galaxy. But again, incredibly complex, lots of work and required experience. Experience CIG doesn't possess at the moment. ED might have. They struggle with rather simple missions already though. No easy task.
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I guess this is what David means when he is talking about making sense for space legs. If there's enough interactivity which can be accessed trough space legs, then it makes sense to make them.
And this is where SC fails at the moment - interactivity enabled by space legs is just isn't there yet. There are some technical prototypes, but they are bare bones and have barely moved on for years.
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Doing it right will give you endless glory and free beer, doing it in a poorly executed way brings you Star Citizen
That being said, there are some core basics we need to look into first. DayZ a game that has been in a internal Alpha limbo, however the game can be a drug, a good experience even though all it's horrible bug with zombies clipping through walls. It's just one of these games that did something right.
The main issue here are foundation and design. There has always been a strong design manual for DayZ, they always knew what the end product should be, and they NEVER deviated from it.
The players also knew what it will end up being, so the core players base are very forgiving.
ED: Well ED maybe have a design brief somewhere in our glorious leaders mind, but honestly I sometimes see them as two different games, the one David talks about and the game that is evolving.
That's doesn't mean it's bad just two slightly differs versions.
Star Citizen: Oh boy it's like being to a shrink doctor session with the local boy, who pick the wings of fly's and help his momma in the kitchen. No clear design, no clear goal, no direction or guides it's all imaginary and glitter.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
This may have been already answered, kinda obvious but, do you actually play Elite (just as an example, among many, of virtual joystick mouse implementation)? Very different from the "gimballed mouse point and click to shoot and ship just follows" that Freelancer and Star Citizen are.
This is one of the oldest discussions, and one of the largest (if not the largest) katamari, at the RSI forums and one of the most dramatic initial promises that were broken (many among the original backers were expecting a more sim-ish experience and not an arcadey point and click weapon/flight system like the one we have today). Ben Lesnick played a big role in the original discussions. The fact that you seem to be unaware is quite puzzling to be honest. Let us know if you need any links.
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Yep. It's all about shortcuts and ellipses to keep the pace. Helm, even movies are all about shortcuts and ellipses, be it narrative or visual/editing ones. Chris should know that.
But no. Even currently, the spawning we have is nowhere near a good cinematic experience, unless they're aiming at Groundhog Day or Edge of Tomorrow kind of flick
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Gives them a chance to rehearse which questions to answer and which to swerve.
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