Time to abandon it

[Stigbob]

I think you are looking at extremes. I dare say the silent majority have just forgotten about it and will wait and see what happens. For me it is made much easier because Privateer, whilst I really enjoyed it was always a distant 2nd place for games I wanted to play compared to Elite.

Which is why I care far more about what happens in ED than I ever will in SC. Worst comes to the worst if SC fails i have lost $60 or $65. ED however that was the one I got sucked into all the pre release gumpf, purely because it was Elite 4...... finally. I kicked in much more money into ED than I ever will for SC..

I think the silent majority chose not to touch it with a ten foot stick or refunded their basic game package years ago.

 

[Ezren]

I think you are looking at extremes. I dare say the silent majority have just forgotten about it and will wait and see what happens. For me it is made much easier because Privateer, whilst I really enjoyed it was always a distant 2nd place for games I wanted to play compared to Elite.

Which is why I care far more about what happens in ED than I ever will in SC. Worst comes to the worst if SC fails i have lost $60 or $65. ED however that was the one I got sucked into all the pre release gumpf, purely because it was Elite 4...... finally. I kicked in much more money into ED than I ever will for SC..

I don't know if I would consider it extremes, as Elite is in a very unique position.

Consider its competition - Star Citizen and No Man's Sky. One is the biggest crowdfunding project ever, and the other was the poster child for overpromising and underdelivering in a high-profile release. Both were predicated on huge promises.

Comparatively, Elite's pretty realistic with its approach, which would be great if not for the fact that competition on both sides either made bad promises or is making unfulfilled ones, so Elite's not really standing out. These other games have made big news through some methods that aren't exactly great, but that made them big names.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

For me at least HG are forgiven with NMS. Yes the game was a shadow of what was "promised"....... Whether this was hubris from them, pressure to get it out of the door from sony or simply over optimism from a fairly inexperienced and small team, I really do not know.... but rather than give up and move on (like other devs) they kept to the grind and now I would say NMS is everything it was ever advertised to be, with a bunch more stuff on top.

Star Citizen vs ED just feels to me (no offence to any of our over the pond friends) like an American vs British thing (and yes I know there are a lot of brits including Roberts himself on the project, so am not blaming America ) but everything about its hype and marketing, the big shinies, and the whooping and what not in their live events just screams American company to me.

All that said though, people are very quick to push what over egging FD themselves did under the carpet and pretend it never happened. is the stuff behind the DDF really all that different? Pay £500 to be essentially a games master in the game *, special missions only for the founding members of the Elite talk to the developers and get the early scoop on the features which will be in the game,(except a whole lot of em were seemingly cut at least for the 1st 6 years).

(*** I am not even saything these are all good ideas but they WERE features used to get extra money from people)

even as recently as Horizons launch stream we were told during the horizons season there would be new types of planets to land on.
the multicrew video (along with stuff the devs said) showed multicrew working with an SRV - leading fans to expect 3 pronged attacks with mothership, SRV and SLF.

all much more sensible expectations than Star Citizens slogan of was it BDSSE (best damn space sim ever or summat) but the fact it was that much more sensible made it all the more dissapointing when it didnt happen imo.

FD are a decent dev team, but they aint perfect either so when it comes to over promising I think glass houses should be kept in mind.

 

[Ezren]

For me at least HG are forgiven with NMS. Yes the game was a shadow of what was "promised"....... Whether this was hubris from them, pressure to get it out of the door from sony or simply over optimism from a fairly inexperienced and small team, I really do not know.... but rather than give up and move on (like other devs) they kept to the grind and now I would say NMS is everything it was ever advertised to be, with a bunch more stuff on top.

Star Citizen vs ED just feels to me (no offence to any of our over the pond friends) like an American vs British thing (and yes I know there are a lot of brits including Roberts himself on the project, so am not blaming America ) but everything about its hype and marketing, the big shinies, and the whooping and what not in their live events just screams American company to me.

All that said though, people are very quick to push what over egging FD themselves did under the carpet and pretend it never happened. is the stuff behind the DDF really all that different? Pay £500 to be essentially a games master in the game?, talk to the developers and get the early scoop on the features which will be in the game (except a whole lot of em were seemingly cut at least for the 1st 6 years).

even as recently as Horizons launch stream we were told during the horizons season there would be new types of planets to land on.
the multicrew video (along with stuff the devs said) showed multicrew working with an SRV - leading fans to expect 3 pronged attacks with mothership, SRV and SLF.

all much more sensible expectations than Star Citizens slogan of was it BDSSE (best damn space sim ever or summat) but the fact it was that much more sensible made it all the more dissapointing when it didnt happen imo.

FD are a decent dev team, but they aint perfect either so when it comes to over promising I think glass houses should be kept in mind.

Ehh, I feel like the perceived expectation of getting to multi-crew SRV is a lot different than outright saying you can interact with other players and that not being the case at all.

I just wish ED had some of that SC money, then we could probably just get anything.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I just wish ED had some of that SC money, then we could probably just get anything.

I am with you there.

as fpr NMS and interacting with people... that was my point. you couldnt.... but now you can, infact even at the start Sean M was reticent to say you would meet people when pushed he said you could but would be very very rare. but now, i see loads of people and you can play it fully multiplayer if you want and build stuff together etc. (I havent done that i am a lone wolf but its nice to wave to other players doing their own thing.

 

[Han Zulu]

Ehh, I feel like the perceived expectation of getting to multi-crew SRV is a lot different than outright saying you can interact with other players and that not being the case at all.

I just wish ED had some of that SC money, then we could probably just get anything.

Not sure if money is what would solve it. Many great ideas, inventions, and developments have been made in the past when there's not enough people, skill, or money.

Ingenuity and making the code efficient can't be bought.

I think it was the money the screwed up SC. They got too much too fast, so it turned into a game of raising money rather than a work to finish a game.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

My feeling is CR is a bit like Peter Moleneux. a great crowd pleaser, really enthusiastic and a good ideas man. Certainly good for bringing in money.
but really needs a more down to earth person above him, who is able to reign him in....... CR didnt have that with Star Citizen. CIG were also a new company with no infrastructure and little experience making modern games.

Frontier Develoments are an established dev team, successful in their own right with a number of reasonable titles under their belt. I think they would have handled it better TBH

 

[Burke]

Because in order to do space legs properly they are going to have to rework the game engine. The vehicular code in the game currently is disjointed and patchworked together. SRV's and SLF's handled differently, mulitplayer supported by one but not the other, one can leave the ship perimeter while one can't. The only way to put first person into the game right now is to make the player avatar another "vehicle", but would it use the SRV or the SLF model?

The best way to future proof the game (and to implement first person) is to rewrite it to have vehicular code integrated into it's foundation consistantly rather than tacked on top like an afterthought. That requires a core engine rewrite.

If they aren't rewriting the core then we'll be getting first person in a half baked version of space legs, and that wouldn't be very appealing nor enticing. If we are getting space legs for the New Era then a core engine rewrite is pretty much required.

The stuff you wrote makes it seem like you understand game construction and im not in a position to say its wrong. It just seems unlikely in the extreme to me. As for legs, a "vehicle" is just a disembodied point of view with some gfx round the edge of the screen. The more i think about this the less likely walking becomes tbh. All those textures, station insides, ship insides etc. If they couldnt deliver reskinned planets it doesnt seem optimistic... legs have never actually been confirmed anywhere have they? I reckon you might get some kind of carrier everything above that should be considered gravy.


Edit: "the new era" Man kind either learns to use guardien tech fully or the guardiens come back to life or something and somehow the evil thargoids are defeated and it ushers in a new era of peace and prosperity in the ED universe. Just a theory

 

[Stigbob]

Ehh, I feel like the perceived expectation of getting to multi-crew SRV is a lot different than outright saying you can interact with other players and that not being the case at all.

I just wish ED had some of that SC money, then we could probably just get anything.

That's the thing, we could have had remakes of wing commander, x-wing, tie-fighter, privateer, tachyon all kinds of cool space ship stuff could have been going on. Joysticks might have become something most gamers have again.

Instead we get to watch a skip full of money get flushed down the repeated cheesy mocap filming toilet.

SC was supposed to be the saviour of PC gaming (lol) more likely its going to kill space games off for another twenty years and probably get crowdfunding heavily regulated. It does need regulating though so its not all bad.

 

[Ezren]

I am with you there.

as fpr NMS and interacting with people... that was my point. you couldnt.... but now you can, infact even at the start Sean M was reticent to say you would meet people when pushed he said you could but would be very very rare. but now, i see loads of people and you can play it fully multiplayer if you want and build stuff together etc. (I havent done that i am a lone wolf but its nice to wave to other players doing their own thing.

Well, NMS came back to make good on some promises, but it made so many big promises that totally fell flat on release that it's probably going to be a marketing case study. Same for SC, they could very well be on the course for exactly the same thing, but they've kicked their timeline way down the road.

I know I want what SC promises, fully-realized ships and space legs and interactions and all. We want to be the space guy or gal. With a space ship that's cool. And do the cool space things. Which is why people probably go nuts with frustration at ED, because it has a lot of the pieces there, but not everything.

 

[Stigbob]

Well, NMS came back to make good on some promises, but it made so many big promises that totally fell flat on release that it's probably going to be a marketing case study. Same for SC, they could very well be on the course for exactly the same thing, but they've kicked their timeline way down the road.

I know I want what SC promises, fully-realized ships and space legs and interactions and all. We want to be the space guy or gal. With a space ship that's cool. And do the cool space things. Which is why people probably go nuts with frustration at ED, because it has a lot of the pieces there, but not everything.

I'm playing NMS at the moment, its fun like first person spore and has a lot of bits of stuff to do in it but I don't think its really in ED's league. The thing is with NMS despite all of the bits they are individually pretty shoddy.

The PG stuff just isn't there at all really six different planet types, lots of quadrupeds, birds and fish with maybe six tail/leg/head/body types some hopping whelks and stuff as well but they are boringly incredibly similar on different planets. On that front it lacks even spores variation.

The FPS has some of the worst hit detection I've ever seen you need to aim four feet or so below carnivorous indoor plants to hit them at all and animals you miss with the sniper laser drop dead anyway because the beam is just for show. Constantly getting stuck on plants off to one side whilst walking.

Economy wise I looked at raw mat prices and blueprints built an activated indium mine and am now rich to the point of money being no object at all. Got the end game s-class squid fighter by it showing up as I wandered through a random space port and my freighters a beast. I feel I may already have hit end game after not very long in game at all.

Base building is duplo stuff.

Ground vehicles locked to 3rd person view because the cockpit interior view is not transparent.

Old bits of the game now superceded lying about pointlessly, like the tool tip to recharge phase beams that don't need recharging anymore or the call spaceship for 1 navigation data pillars even though you can do it free from the quick menu.

Alien interaction is a list of canned phrases and irritating little dances with RNG governing reactions, I'd prefer it to be text based only.

Difficulty wise I only died once by standing about to get eaten and see what happened.

Space flight lol.

 

[Viajero]

but they havent delivered the lead ring yet, so whether it is a scam or not is still unknown.

That said, I am truly interested and surprised in your stance here.... Every feature FD listed pre-release which has not made it into the game, ones which were used to get people to go big on their purchases such as the life time pass you are very vocal are all just theory crafting and hopes and dreams.... and you are quick to point to small print about features subject to change etc.
I havent looked because I am no where near as interested in SC as I am ED, but i would be gobsmacked if CIG do not have exactly the same get out clauses in place.

Propably pointed out already so apologies but the comparison brought here is a bit out of proportion in all dimensions.

On the one hand we have best wishes by a developer of what may eventually (or not) make it to the game ("no ETAs or guarantees" everpresent FDEV moto), that were never part of a commercial product description or sold specifically in any way or form (I am asuming here you talking about the DDF). On the other we have a complete list of Stretch Goals diretcly paid for and financed (5 times over and counting at that) and a significant amount of additional game content (vehicles, modules etc) with full commercial product descriptions including abilities, and gameplay features, all sold directly for money in dedicated sale events or promotions or at the developer shop.

Regarding the LEP, on the one hand we have a very minute proportion of units within the total community of the game sold on a very limited and finite time window and without any kind of specific committment about delivery time or content. On the other we have 2 full on "AAA" games that are being pre-sold to the entire community, that have been pre sold since 2012 and are still being pre-sold at full price (more expensive now actually) as we speak without no end in sight, even when there are clear indications that not all the features and content in the commercial product descriptions will make it into release.

On the one hand you have a released product that has been subject to gaming reviews and where buyers can actually see before buying. In the other, after 7-8 years of development we do not even know yet what shape or form or content will be in the eventual release product. Maybe.

If the SC topic is of interest, I suggest to head this way.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I'm playing NMS at the moment, its fun like first person spore and has a lot of bits of stuff to do in it but I don't think its really in ED's league. The thing is with NMS despite all of the bits they are individually pretty shoddy.

The PG stuff just isn't there at all really six different planet types, lots of quadrupeds, birds and fish with maybe six tail/leg/head/body types some hopping whelks and stuff as well but they are boringly incredibly similar on different planets. On that front it lacks even spores variation.

The FPS has some of the worst hit detection I've ever seen you need to aim four feet or so below carnivorous indoor plants to hit them at all and animals you miss with the sniper laser drop dead anyway because the beam is just for show. Constantly getting stuck on plants off to one side whilst walking.

Economy wise I looked at raw mat prices and blueprints built an activated indium mine and am now rich to the point of money being no object at all. Got the end game s-class squid fighter by it showing up as I wandered through a random space port and my freighters a beast. I feel I may already have hit end game after not very long in game at all.

Base building is duplo stuff.

Ground vehicles locked to 3rd person view because the cockpit interior view is not transparent.

Old bits of the game now superceded lying about pointlessly, like the tool tip to recharge phase beams that don't need recharging anymore or the call spaceship for 1 navigation data pillars even though you can do it free from the quick menu.

Alien interaction is a list of canned phrases and irritating little dances with RNG governing reactions, I'd prefer it to be text based only.

Difficulty wise I only died once by standing about to get eaten and see what happened.

Space flight lol.

I agree it is no elite beater.... It offers some different stuff that ED doesn't ,(and that is fine ) but I never expected it to be on a par with ED. I did expect it to be what was sold however. At launch it wasn't it was very dishonest. Now imo it is.
I guess it is about expectation management. I have neutral expectations for NMS and SC. I had much greater hope for ED (which is why I am here and not there )

 

[Stigbob]

I agree it is no elite beater.... It offers some different stuff that ED doesn't ,(and that is fine ) but I never expected it to be on a par with ED. I did expect it to be what was sold however. At launch it wasn't it was very dishonest. Now imo it is.
I guess it is about expectation management. I have neutral expectations for NMS and SC. I had much greater hope for WD (which is why I am here and not there )

I was expecting NMS to be pretty shoddy but good simple fun, which it is.

But 'Q' & 'E' for left and right and 'mouse 1' & 'mouse2' for up and down in the same menu is heretical consolitis and should be stamped out immediately with heavy iron shod boots.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I still believe the New Era is essentially Elite Dangerous 2. A new core game engine re-using all of the current assets, with most of the feature modules simply swapped over as is but a lot of the feature code modified to utilize the new and improved features of the rebuilt core. Improved graphics, networking, reworked vehicle code including first person, etc.

Very much like what Blizzard is doing with Overwatch 2. That's what I think ED's New Era is.

So your saying we would have to pay for something that we already have with no additional gameplay.

Also what's the point of them fixing bugs over the next 6 months, just for them to trash it all 3 months later. Doesn't really make sense to me.

 

[dubsdj]

After many years of play I think it's time to abandon it, in the end you realize that the game has too many limits that I hope will be introduced in the future, now everything is limited to grinding and making money and once you get the ship and build properly you have finished the game because everything only leads to making money and nothing else, everything brings you back to this.
For years people have been asking for storage in the stations for the materials and resources collected, being able to walk on the planets and build outposts, add a videochat directly in game with the group's participants, as they are doing on Star Citizen, an audio / video player, make the planets with realistic textures and not all the same with a single color pattern, there is no life in this game and maybe they will be limits of the engine, but I believe it is the lack of desire of the devs to improve the game by investing money, but obviously it is more important to sell skins, what is left to do in this game? jump from one system to another, farming, do missions to get only to make money, too little, there is no capital ship where you could invite party players, it would be more fun to be able to manage the entire ship, mining on foot and missions, I lost all interest, perhaps the new players have not yet understood but at a certain point yes and the money is of no use.

I still like playing the game but what you say is kind of how it is, I agree. Still , there is hope !

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I was expecting NMS to be pretty shoddy but good simple fun, which it is.

But 'Q' & 'E' for left and right and 'mouse 1' & 'mouse2' for up and down in the same menu is heretical consolitis and should be stamped out immediately with heavy iron shod boots.

So for me the UI is OK... But I play in VR so use different controls again. I was pretty wary about how a virtual hotas would work (and don't get me wrong I don't want that for elite) but for NMS it works surprisingly well and I like using my hands to control virtual menus etc

 

[KellyR]

Maybe im wrong. I hope so, i want to be wrong. But if they let everybody down a thrid time, like christmas 2020 rolls round and for whtever reason there is nothing. I dunno kinda feels like they ought to refund people who bought the game cause they thought there was gonna be carriers and stuff. How far can you guys defend this before even you lot choke on it?

Don't be ridiculous. No one (who has actually played the game) is getting a refund. If you have less than a couple hours played, you might especially if you are playing through Steam, but no refunds for those who have played for more than 2 hours. As for me, I've gotten more than my money's worth. People seem to think FD is here just for our entertainment. I assure you they are not. Their prime goal is to make money. Providing video games is how they go about fulfilling that goal.

 

[Ezren]

Don't be ridiculous.

You are barkin' up the wrong tree with a request like that.

 

[Mengy]

So your saying we would have to pay for something that we already have with no additional gameplay.

I have a hunch the update will be free, but the ability to get out of the pilots chair would require purchasing a DLC (except for LP's of course).

Also what's the point of them fixing bugs over the next 6 months, just for them to trash it all 3 months later. Doesn't really make sense to me.

Like I said, my hunch is much of the current feature code will be transplanted into the new core engine. The bugs they are fixing now are likely to routines which will simply be migrated directly into the new game, so it's not wasted work.

To us it would likely appear to be a substantial overhaul to the current game, but under the hood it would really be a total rewrite and replacement of a lot of the game's core. Sometimes in software dev this is the most efficient way to fix horrible spaghetti code which is prone to breaking often. Fixing lots of bugs is sometimes much more work than simply rewriting the foundation anew instead.

Again, just my gut feeling on what's going on behind the scenes at FDev. We might simply end up getting very minor updates after all this time. I could be overzealous with my expectations.

In any case, it's premature to "abandon it". Wait to see what the end of 2020 brings to the game.