I've been around since kickstarter, and have over 3,000 hours in the game. I suppose I may be one of the lucky ones that missed Frontier's crosshairs when they picked people to force them to grind. I have not been forced to grind, and have actually enjoyed pretty much every minute I have spent in Elite Dangerous.
Why are we being robbed of grade 5 in the engineering conversion for no reason?
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I've been around since kickstarter, and have over 3,000 hours in the game. I suppose I may be one of the lucky ones that missed Frontier's crosshairs when they picked people to force them to grind. I have not been forced to grind, and have actually enjoyed pretty much every minute I have spent in Elite Dangerous.
So why is the concept confusing you? When the overall power level of Engineering mods was dramatically reduced, FD nerfed everyone down to that level. Now the overall power level of Engineering mods is being dramatically increased, and yet FD doesn't want to buff existing Grade 5 mods to the new level.
If you claim to remember how FD handled the prior nerfs then why are you confused about the issue when FD is not handling buffs in the same way?
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
I have ~20, and all G5'd.
The new system will save me much time overall, and I'll be much more compelled to buy more ships.
Getting just "decent" dirty drives drives for all of those was a huge task.
it was only really possible because so many shared the c5 thrusters I was trying to get for my FDL.
Furthermore, I would guess you don't have the "best" now, on all (Many? Any?) of those.
How many DD5s do you have that are in the 140% range?
You could do all of your ships to that level in the new system, before you'd likely get a single one in the current.
I'm not confused at all. I'm just not bothered by it.
If you actually understand the concept then it should be quite obvious why many players would be bothered by it. Whether you are personally bothered by it or not isn't relevant if you understand the issue here.
Everyone understands the concept.
It was discussed and counter-discussed endlessly.
Every conceivable alternative was presented, shot down, backed up, and reiterated in half a dozen different ways by dozens of different people.
You know, back when we were offered the chance to provide input.
Everyone is free to decide whether the Feedback Forum or the Beta had any impact at all on FD's plans but the point is it's over.
Or do you expect Sandro to wake up in the middle of the night, read your posts and think:
"You know what, Devari is absolutely right - no-one had ever thought of that issue before.
First thing on Monday, I must tell David that we're cancelling 3.0 until we get this right."
No, they really don't. Many players are pretending that it's "not a problem" because they "don't mind" or some similar dismissive statement that tries to pretend the issue doesn't exist.
That's not what happened at all. FD completely ignored the issue during beta. The obvious suggestion of converting current Grade 5 modules to the upper end of the new Grade 5 range in order to reflect the effort and time involved in obtaining them hasn't been addressed by FD in any way. It's something they should have already implemented before the 3.0 beta even launched because it's such an obvious solution. They had no problems nerfing everyone's Engineering mods to a lower range before but somehow the issue of converting existing mods properly into the new range is such a difficult concept that not only have they not addressed it themselves they have completely ignored the idea when presented in numerous threads both during and after the 3.0 beta.
Pretending that we've had any sort of actual response from FD on this issue is a lie. They've just completely ignored the problem and seem to think it will "go away". The only thing that's going away as a result of this is many of their longstanding players who aren't going to repeat a new grind after 2 years of work is devalued by FD.
I'm not pretending anything.
I just know that on Tuesday, Beyond 3.0 is going to drop, and the new Engineering is going to be what it is.
No amount of blather is going to affect that.
Deal with it and move on.
Right, because every other patch has launched perfectly after an extensive and well-received beta testing period and hasn't needed any adjustments afterwards.
Oh, wait, nevermind. That's not what happens, we actually have exactly the opposite. Throughout Horizons we had 2-3 months of endless tweaks, adjustments, and bug fixes after every single Horizons patch and even then they usually end up as a poorly balanced minimum viable product. That's with smaller patches that have betas that last 3-5 weeks on average, not a large adjustment to gameplay balance that was tested for only two weeks with the ridiculously short 3.0 beta testing period.
I expect that many players will "move on" and simply stop playing the game. FD won't be getting them back because not only has it been insulting to devalue 2 years of hard work, they aren't actually delivering any new gameplay content that will be worth coming back to the game for anyways.
You were moaning that people who'd "gone to a lot of effort" to get good G5 mod's will now have them reduced to G4 mod's if they attempt to upgrade them further.
That, alone, doesn't make much sense.
If somebody's happy with what they already have, there's no compulsion to upgrade any further.
If, OTOH, people do decide to use the new system to improve an existing mod, it's not really a big deal if they have to do 3 or 4 additional rolls before their new mod' surpasses what hey previously had - especially if we're to believe these people were prepared to "go to a lot of effort" to create the original mod.
It's not really reasonable to expect the new system to be able to accurately quantify every existing mod' so that further rolls, using the new system, will simply carry on from there.
Fundamentally, though, anybody who was happy to spend a lot of effort creating mod's which are now inferior should probably just be happy that they can now achieve even better results, and results which are guaranteed, rather than wasting their time bleating about the time they wasted obtaining the original mod'.
I see you've come full circle to my original point, that you so casually dismissed.
It's going to happen.
Players can suck it up or quit.
I expect a lot of players to come back to playing because of the refinements to the Engineering system. Playing a video game can in no way be compared to 'Hard Work'. Some people can tell the difference between entertainment, and work.
Your statement here makes zero sense. When players have put in dozens or hundreds of rolls into a mod, and none of that work is converted into new Grade 5 system where the new mods are massively more powerful, why would a player ever be "happy with what they already have" when FD devalued all of that hard work?
How is that concept still difficult to understand for some people?
Pretending the problem doesn't exist isn't an answer. Myself and others have clearly described the problem and I've provided a very simple solution to convert the current Grade 5 mods. FD had no problem applying that solution when they decided to nerf Engineering ranges previously so it's something they should have already implemented on their own without being told that it should be done. Yet all I see in response is complete silence from FD and ridiculous claims from players trying to deny that there's an issue.
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Some things change (like this game - thankfully) and some things don't (like the initial posting). Get over it!
Be thankful that FDEV is actually spending some time on the underlying code base and logic rather than painting party hats on holo-crap!
I'm curious to see how the new Engineering process works out. I look forward to trying something new. No big deal. Its a game...
Be thankful that FDEV is actually spending some time on the underlying code base and logic rather than painting party hats on holo-crap!
I'm curious to see how the new Engineering process works out. I look forward to trying something new. No big deal. Its a game...
That's not a "point". It's avoiding the issue.
That same "response" could have been applied to any other game problem and it would be just as useless. FD was supposed to be improving the gameplay with 3.0, not causing more game balance problems and devaluing 2 years of Engineering grind.
I think it's you that has an issue with a very simple concept.
That despite your righteous opinion, your impeccable logic, and your incessant repetition, people still seem to disagree with you.
Most importantly FD seem to disagree with you.
Now whether that is because they missed your posts, chose to ignore them, or just decided to do what they wanted to in the first place is neither here nor there. They are going to do it anyway.
'Massively more powerful' seems like an exagerration as well.
Some power creep no doubt, but massive? I don't think so.
You lost the argument. You're just going to have to live with the 'problem' and decide how best to deal with it.
Of course not. What is absolutely key here is whether you are personally bothered by it.
No, people seem to be avoiding the issue. Pretending there isn't a problem that multiple players have brought up isn't a "disagreement" based on an actual discussion. It's just denial of a problem.
Of course not. What is absolutely key here is whether you are personally bothered by it.
So you're suggesting that you don't understand why this issue is a problem?
I mean if you can't even explain the concept back to me then you're simply trolling here.