Would like a new, different exploration ship from FD:

DeathStroke · Jan 21, 2018

CMDR Pugwash · Jan 21, 2018

AtomicMegaNerd said:
You have a point there, but some ships do seem pretty optimized for combat in this game like the Chieftain, FAS, FGS, etc. A few different ships optimized for exploration could be an interesting addition to the game.

I love exploration in Elite. I’ve put many many light years on my old trusty Asp Explorer, the Athabasca. My first Python and Beluga and a chunk of my first Anaconda were all funded by my deep space adventures. Went the slow way to Colonia, stopping by nebulae and scanning all the valuable planets I could. Took me a month!

In any event, I like having everything i need to stay out in the black for an extended period of time. I am actually considering building a Type-10 for deep space exploration so I can equip it with AMFU’s, SRV’s, and repair limpets. The jump range on the Type-10 isn’t bad and I agree with some who say that a decent jump range is fine for exploration if your goal is to scan systems and not just to get from point A to point B. The only thing I’d like to see fixed on the Type-10 for exploration is the awful SC handling. I hope that was just an oversight and the SC handling will be fixed somewhat.

I'm doing the same thing, currently doing some of these new fangled passenger missions to save some dosh before heading out again. I'm learning to like her slow graceful supercruise turns. I plan to bring an SLF with me for some fun. I am hoping that they will release a specialised exploration shuttle (Described Here) at some point too.

popuptoaster · Jan 21, 2018

Kurama 1100 said:
Be careful with your word choice, Mengy and I aren't arguing its impossible to explore without good jump ranges, we were saying that jump range is an important factor when classifing ships into "exploration specialized" or otherwise.

Be careful with YOUR word choice, you'll note that i never mentioned specialised exploration vessels specifications, i was talking about what the pilots require based on either experience or what they see on the forums.

Also I disagree with you anyway, I think a large fuel scoop, the right module slots for appropriate equipment, good heat management for resistance to damage while scooping and a good view out of the cockpit (if you are role playing and not using camera drones) are more important than jump range when looking at exploration vessels, i would put having a long jump range quite a long way down the list as although desirable not really necessary.

In fact I'd suggest that a native high jump range should be higher up the list of desirable attributes for a specialised cargo vessel than an explorer ship, probably second on the list after cargo slots as longer jump ranges (especially when reduced by a full cargo load) mean faster deliveries and more credits earned per hour, time is money for a businessman while explorers can dawdle along and, long or short jump, they still end up in a scanable money making system.

Long jump range is more of a convenience for explorers except for the few that are trying to get out to the rim systems to whom it's a necessity, but that falls under my comment about experienced players shopping according to needs rather than all specialised exploration vessels must have long jump range, MOST explorers need endurance, not speed of travel.

Sylveria · Jan 21, 2018

popuptoaster said:
Be careful with YOUR word choice, you'll note that i never mentioned specialised exploration vessels specifications, i was talking about what the pilots require based on either experience or what they see on the forums.

Also I disagree with you anyway, I think a large fuel scoop, the right module slots for appropriate equipment, good heat management for resistance to damage while scooping and a good view out of the cockpit (if you are role playing and not using camera drones) are more important than jump range when looking at exploration vessels, i would put having a long jump range quite a long way down the list as although desirable not really necessary.

In fact I'd suggest that a native high jump range should be higher up the list of desirable attributes for a specialised cargo vessel than an explorer ship, probably second on the list after cargo slots as longer jump ranges (especially when reduced by a full cargo load) mean faster deliveries and more credits earned per hour, time is money for a businessman while explorers can dawdle along and, long or short jump, they still end up in a scanable money making system.

Long jump range is more of a convenience for explorers except for the few that are trying to get out to the rim systems to whom it's a necessity, but that falls under my comment about experienced players shopping according to needs rather than all specialised exploration vessels much have long jump range, MOST explorers need endurance, not speed of travel.

Just out of curiosity... do you have a specific problem with people having options, even if it means "convenience" in some way?

I mean, I get your point that things like long jump range aren't "required" (not debating that, I concur that as a scientific explorer, scanning more systems is kind of the point) but rather why purposely gimp a ship to a shorter jump range when it's meant to be used for Exploration in general?

Shinji Ikari · Jan 21, 2018

popuptoaster said:
Be careful with YOUR word choice, you'll note that i never mentioned specialised exploration vessels specifications, i was talking about what the pilots require based on either experience or what they see on the forums.

Also I disagree with you anyway, I think a large fuel scoop, the right module slots for appropriate equipment, good heat management for resistance to damage while scooping and a good view out of the cockpit (if you are role playing and not using camera drones) are more important than jump range when looking at exploration vessels, i would put having a long jump range quite a long way down the list as although desirable not really necessary.

In fact I'd suggest that a native high jump range should be higher up the list of desirable attributes for a specialised cargo vessel than an explorer ship, probably second on the list after cargo slots as longer jump ranges (especially when reduced by a full cargo load) mean faster deliveries and more credits earned per hour, time is money for a businessman while explorers can dawdle along and, long or short jump, they still end up in a scanable money making system.

Long jump range is more of a convenience for explorers except for the few that are trying to get out to the rim systems to whom it's a necessity, but that falls under my comment about experienced players shopping according to needs rather than all specialised exploration vessels must have long jump range, MOST explorers need endurance, not speed of travel.

The issue is that all large and some medium ships have endurance, just get two AFMUS, repair drones and some heatsink and you are done. To keep the heat down you actually get benefited by downgrading most of your modules to reduce power consumption, most or all ships are fairly cool if you downgrade enough their modules.

Those characteristics you mention are actually only useful to travel quickly except for the cockpit affinity.

CMDR Pugwash · Jan 21, 2018

Kurama 1100 said:
The issue is that all large and some medium ships have endurance, just get two AFMUS, repair drones and some heatsink and you are done. To keep the heat down you actually get benefited by downgrading most of your modules to reduce power consumption, most or all ships are fairly cool if you downgrade enough their modules.

Those characteristics you mention are actually only useful to travel quickly except for the cockpit affinity.

Heatsinks are useless. Once they're gone, they're gone, so you never use them. They're just weight in the end.

Sylveria · Jan 21, 2018

CMDR Pugwash said:
Heatsinks are useless. Once they're gone, they're gone, so you never use them. They're just weight in the end.

Not entirely. I usually equip at least one Heat Sink Launcher for emergency purposes- and you can always synthesize to load up more.

Shinji Ikari · Jan 21, 2018

CMDR Pugwash said:
Heatsinks are useless. Once they're gone, they're gone, so you never use them. They're just weight in the end.

Hmm, you can bring one lightweight heatsink and some refills with materials and you're done, lots of heatsinks with miniscule weight penalty.

CMDR Pugwash · Jan 21, 2018

Kurama 1100 said:
Hmm, you can bring one lightweight heatsink and some refills with materials and you're done, lots of heatsinks with miniscule weight penalty.

But you can't find those materials out in the black. I suppose it comes down to the size of your ship and the surplus weight you can carry.

Sylveria · Jan 21, 2018

CMDR Pugwash said:
But you can't find those materials out in the black. I suppose it comes down to the size of your ship and the surplus weight you can carry.

If you're previously loaded with materials, it matters not... materials don't (currently) weigh anything. A Heat Sink Launcher is relatively lightweight, too.

Fyrd Judge · Jan 21, 2018

Forget small, medium ships we have enough ships that can explore and every one can explore, i even took a Federal Corvette 56,000ly to the other side. We need a mega ship that explorers can use as a mobile staging post and cash in their data, service their ships, just like Jaques station did before he parked up and left the explorers alone. We need a replacement for those that are nomadic in deep space, hopefully the carriers that are due to come will be able to fill that role if not carrier exploration ships are needed for those that are exploring 5-7 months (or far longer) out of each year.

Karamon · Jan 21, 2018

DeathStroke said:
...

Anaconda - biga and fat , and ugly interior
DE - ugly , ugly interior
ASPx - ugly, ugly interior
Orca- no comment
Dolphin - even worse
Type 6 - ugly everything
AspS - ugly everything
Python - NOT UGLY! but cockpit so ugly and dirty that i can't look at it for extended periods of time
Sidewinder mk 3 - just a bigger sidewinder, ugly
Imperial courier , a bit to small for my needs but not bad

rest does not even count to mention them .

I'd love Gutamaya medium ship , Clipper is nearly perfect for my everyday travels but Large size sometimes is not nice

But to be fair i don't need dedicated explorer at this moment, rather medium sized taxi that can take some booze to an engineer , then go see some alien ruins , go to other side of bubble to gather some engineering materials and go to other side where my corvette is to hunt some pirates , then to take me to pleiades to shoot some xenos .

Python is perfect , but really i can't look at this dirty and rusty cockpit for extended periods of time

Shinji Ikari · Jan 21, 2018

CMDR Pugwash said:
But you can't find those materials out in the black. I suppose it comes down to the size of your ship and the surplus weight you can carry.

I know but you can just store them before departing and 0.3 Tons are really not very important.

Mengy · Jan 21, 2018

DeathStroke said:
There's at least 12 ships that are good at exploration.
Anaconda - it's the best: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/ana.../xkAvq9RqCIAAAA=.EweloBhBmSQUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=
Diamondback Explorer - if you want the best, but don't like/can't afford the Anaconda: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/dia.../xkAvq9RqCIAAAA=.EweloBhBmSQUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=
Asp Explorer - The classic: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/asp.../xkAvq9RqCIAAAA=.EweloBhBmSQUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=
Orca - if you're one of those people: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/orc.../xkAvq9RqCIAAAA=.EweloBhBmSQUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=
Dolphin - if you're one of those people, but don't like big ships: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/dol.../xkAvq9RqCIAAAA=.EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A=
Type 6 - If you like your ship to resemble a lobster pot: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/typ.../xkAvq9RqCIAAAA=.EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A=
Asp Scout - Asp explorer on a budget: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/asp.../xkAvq9RqCIAAAA=.EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A=
Python - if you love the underdog: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/pyt.../xkAvq9RqCIAAAA=.EweloBhBmSQUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=
Cobra III - Classic on a budget: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/cob.../xkAvq9RqCIAAAA=.EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A=
Imperial Courier - if you just have to fly imperial: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/imp.../xkAvq9RqCIAAAA=.EweloBhAOEoUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=
Adder - if you're too poor/cheap to buy something better: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/add.../xkAvq9RqCIAAAA=.EweloBhAOEoUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=
Honorable mention: Hauler - Makes a great starter explorer, but in the end isn't great for Horizons owners, just fine for those without horizons though. (No room for srv).

Sure they are all "good" at exploration, in the same way that every single ship in the game is "good" at combat. Every ship can equip weapons and shields, yet no one would claim that an Adder is a combat ship.

This discussion isn't about ships which are "good" at exploration, we are desiring more ships designed to excel at exploration. And that means enough internals to carry all of the equipment plus top tier jump range in order to reach systems which are normally unreachable. A commander can go exploring in a Cobra III but he'll never be able to reach Semotus Beacon, or any of the other millions of systems just as distant. We are discussing new ships which can be used to explore the places that the "good" ships can never reach.

Currently the game has 3 ships which excel at exploration: the Anaconda, the DBX, and the Asp X. The Orca isn't far behind either, but after that the capability of other ships drops quickly with regard to excelling at exploration. So 3 to 4 great exploration ships. How many pure combat ships are in the game?

All explorers want are options, and I don't think that's too much to ask honestly.

Lightspeed · Jan 21, 2018

We received the T-10. That was a surprise.

I like pleasant surprises

[Diplomacy] Carnegie · Jan 21, 2018

Just out of curiosity, how many dedicated mining ships are there?

A D · Jan 21, 2018

Mengy said:
Technically any ship in the game can explore, just like technically every ship in the game can do combat. However, the fact that every ship has hardpoints does not mean they are “combat ships”, just like the fact that many ships can explore do not make them “exploration ships”.

So, what makes a ship a true exploration ship? What features make it stand above the others? I would argue that there are four strong criteria to classifying a ship well suited for exploration:

Jump Range. The ship needs to be able to 1) get into deep space, and 2) reach systems at the fringes.

Supercruise Agility. Scanning complete systems requires a lot of maneuvering in SC, and the slower the ship the more frustrating and time consuming exploration becomes.

Six Internals Minimum. In order for a ship to function adequately as a long term deep space explorer you need six internals: ADS, DSS, Scoop, SRV, Shield, AFMU. This is the minimum, more is better.

Cockpit View. When the ships job is looking at things, being able to see them out the front window is a huge perk.

Now, very few ships win at all four of those, honestly only the Asp X and the DBX fully satisfy all four. The Anaconda hits two of them in spades but misses SC agility and view, however having the best jump range in the game is a great plus. The Orca honestly does very well too, its jump range is behind the three I just mentioned but not by too much. Next in the ranking would be the Dolphin, another passenger ship. It meets all four criteria but slacks a bit in jump range and in view somewhat, but still very good. The T6 would be next, it meets three of them nicely but it’s jump range is a bit less than the Dolphins. The Imperial Courier would fall behind the T6 here, as it meets all four points but its jump range just isn’t up to snuff compared to the previous six.

So there are the seven “exploration ships”. However, only three really meet all of the criteria in spades: the Asp X, Orca, and the DBX. All of the others miss or fall behind in one or more categories.

Totally agree (and would rep you Mengy, but can't ATM - have to spread the love apparently). IMO the AspX nudges in for top spot:

- the cockpit view is better. Can fly level (nose flat/control free) over planets and easily see down.
- Fits a Class 6A fuel scoop. After 1,000+ jumps you appreciate time saved at the bowser.

As a minor point, the AspX does have one more internal slot than the DBX. Not that useful ATM, but it can be used to fit a cargo rack or second ARM. I'd love it if FD moved the detail surface scanner to a utility slot (like other scanners - manifest, wake). Could then fit a repair limpet controller and have the complete exploration package.

BTW, would be interested to know what engineered max jump players are getting on the Asp X fully outfitted for exploration - I got 50.43 Ly. Very chuffed with it.

DeathStroke · Jan 21, 2018

Karamon said:
uglyuglyuglyuglyuglyuglyuglyuglyuglyuglyugly

The fact that you have bad taste is no ones fault but your own.

Mengy · Jan 21, 2018

A D said:
BTW, would be interested to know what engineered max jump players are getting on the Asp X fully outfitted for exploration - I got 50.43 Ly. Very chuffed with it.

My Asp will jump 55lys on a full 16T tank, 56.9lys on fumes. There is still room on the FSD to do better yet, maybe after 3.0 I'll work on that.

Nowadays I explore in my 59ly DBX.

Karamon · Jan 21, 2018

DeathStroke said:
The fact that you have bad taste is no ones fault but your own.

I simply like clean ships , not bucket of bolts , with loose wires and filled with dust and gravel from some distant forgotten by god moon