External View [A definitive discussion]

[RGS]

Actually I really like it the way it is. Feels much more realistic to me, I don't want to be able to check outside for damage etc. when floating round in space. Much better to limp 'home' get out and take a look myself . (I do get that some people want to see the 'eye candy' of their ships in action in space, but for me that just breaks the immersion and can also lead to a combat advantage if view-hopping.)

It will be nice to walk around the ships in the hangar/planet-side in the future though .

I also wouldn't be against a 'drone camera' for viewing your ship in space as I can understand the reasoning behind that. Def don't want to see a standard third person view personally though.

 

[QuantumTron]

I've suggested in another thread last week that instead of an external view camera, what I'd REALLY like to see would be some kind of virtual video recorder.

This would enable the player to replay a scene they were involved in, at a later time, as an external view.

Imagine being able to - after docking at a station - have a 3rd person camera view of that battle you just won, and being able to move the virtual camera around as you replay those moments of excitement and adventure.

It could also serve as a sort of black box recorder for when you get ganked by a griefer player, as evidence against them, perhaps. Or for evidence against a PK'er, or perhaps even a Pirate who then murders you after taking your cargo instead of letting you go

 

[Ramjet]

^ +1 :smilie: I really like that idea because it is entirely feasible that there would be some form of advanced onboard recording system for just such incidents.

Viewing the replay later would be so awesome and it just seems natural to have such a mode included... kinda like in EA's Fight Night series where you can slow down replays and do all sorts of cool stuff with the camera and then save it out for viewing later.

 

[Komemiute]

I've suggested in another thread last week that instead of an external view camera, what I'd REALLY like to see would be some kind of virtual video recorder.

This would enable the player to replay a scene they were involved in, at a later time, as an external view.

Imagine being able to - after docking at a station - have a 3rd person camera view of that battle you just won, and being able to move the virtual camera around as you replay those moments of excitement and adventure.

It could also serve as a sort of black box recorder for when you get ganked by a griefer player, as evidence against them, perhaps. Or for evidence against a PK'er, or perhaps even a Pirate who then murders you after taking your cargo instead of letting you go

I like the idea, but I'd limit that to a screenshot rather than a video.
But that's just me.

 

[zigmeister]

I've suggested in another thread last week that instead of an external view camera, what I'd REALLY like to see would be some kind of virtual video recorder.

This would enable the player to replay a scene they were involved in, at a later time, as an external view.

Imagine being able to - after docking at a station - have a 3rd person camera view of that battle you just won, and being able to move the virtual camera around as you replay those moments of excitement and adventure.

It could also serve as a sort of black box recorder for when you get ganked by a griefer player, as evidence against them, perhaps. Or for evidence against a PK'er, or perhaps even a Pirate who then murders you after taking your cargo instead of letting you go

I would love to see this implementation. I have several flight sims (Rise of Flight and DCS series) that offer this capability and it is truly wonderful for reviewing your greatest missions and making movies of the action. I don't know if we will get something like this, however, as it might take a bit of work to implement. Perhaps as part of an expansion or DLC?:S

 

[Snowglider]

Just a big +1 from me to the OP.

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

I like the recorder idea, it gives no advantage and doesn't wreck immersion.
Various racing games have it, as well as the GTA games.

 

[QuantumTron]

I like the idea, but I'd limit that to a screenshot rather than a video.
But that's just me.

Well you're not actually recording a video to your hard disk, taking up Gigabytes of valuable space, if that's what you're concerned about.

All it would take would be to record the XYZ coordinates, direction, ship orientation, speed, weapons action, and results (being blown up, escaping, etc.) and whatever else is necessary - something the game client is taking care of in real time anyway, in order for you to play the game.

Just write those variables in a compact way to a file - limit the file to a certain size - and then in video-replay mode the game client can then re-load the recorded variables in order to recreate the scene in a 3rd-person camera view.

That data file would be a fraction of the size in comparison to an actual video file.

Such a camera could then be manually controlled by the player if they wanted to get dramatic angles of the recorded scene. Again, all the camera would be is a ship model without the surrounding cockpit and you could just use the already existing ship control code to control the camera.

All the stuff needed to do this is already in the game client! It just needs a developer to add in the code necessary to implement this function

 

[Rog]

You might want to have a quick read here:
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12464

 

[QuantumTron]

You might want to have a quick read here:
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12464

That's an excellent thread, by the way.

I've also just created a feature request for my virtual video recorder idea, which would be in addition to the features discussed there, as I think this would make for a great feature.

 

[smartroad]

It's the early 1900's, Ford have released the Model T. It has 20HP and no doors. The Model T evolves, eventually getting doors and windows enclosing the occupants while still allowing a near full view around the car.

It is the late 1900's, cars now have larger windows allowing a large view (especially the rear) and a review mirror to reduce the strain of looking behind. Even basic cars can produce upward of 80-100HP.

It is now, cars have cameras which allow the driver to see directly behind the car. More expensive models have cameras that can see all around the car. Renault even presents a concept car which has a built in quadcopter to fly off and check why the traffic queue has happened (http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/renault-kwid-concept-car-has-its-own-drone-we-kwid-you-not/) - even I have a quadcopter at home that allows me to see through a video camera on the front (thus allowing me to see me in the 3rd person).

I don't understand after only what 100 or so years of development, we have got to a point where looking out of a car window is not our only source of visual information about the world around us, that after 1000 years we would have gone backwards to only being able to look out the front of a space vehicle?

Today cameras are cheap and the computers that control the systems are getting cheaper and more powerful. I don't see it as far fetched that a ship from the 34th century (which is capable of superluminary travel no less) would be covered in cameras, giving it a 360 view of its surroundings in both planes. Nor do I see it as far fetched that between that view of its surroundings, and a 3D simulation of itself, that it couldn't create a live 3D external view of the ship in the space it currently occupies.

NASA gave the arm on the Shuttle a camera so it could check the underside of the vessel for damage during take-off. They have also been looking at having Smartphone powered 'flying' robots for the ISS. Having an external view can be important in real life on a space-vessel (damage assessment), is it so far fetched that in 1,200 years time a space ship would have an upgraded ability to view itself?

What do we want? Realism? Because we would have to be rid of the superluminary travel for one, or maybe the artificial caps on top speed, or the artificial gimping of the yaw axis. Or do we want believability? As long as an external view is done in a believable fashion (external drone, 3D computer simulation etc), then why not have it?

 

[Aleksej]

Threads merged.

 

[Zephyriel]

QuantumTron, I quite like your idea! It would be cool if those recordings could then be viewed by players in-universe. For example, when docked to a station, on the news board, you could see videos player recorded from events that happened in the local sector.

Additionaly, maybe there could even be a way to pay in-game credits to watch the full video, sending the money directly to the player who recorded it. This would open up a way for players to become "journalists", filming battles, making nice timelapse videos or whatever and earning a living this way...

 

[CalUKGR]

I'd love to see some sort of 'external view' option. I also like the idea of being able to record gameplay and view it from an external view. Both great ideas, imo. Without an external view, it seems such a shame we won't be able to appreciate more fully the beauty of the game - and think of the great screenshots/TY videos that would come out of having such features.

 

[JackOakley]

Paint job - 3rd Person view when out of combat?

I know we can't have a 3rd person view while in combat (which I completely agree with) but is there a way to see the ship in 3rd person view while out of combat?
I'm tempted to check out the paint jobs but can't see the point if I can't see the ship in space.

 

[MadEye]

I believe FD said they were working on a practical reason that you would be able to get outside of your ship and see it.

Don't quote me on that though.

 

[JackOakley]

I believe FD said they were working on a practical reason that you would be able to get outside of your ship and see it.

Don't quote me on that though.

Too late! ;-)

And thanks for the info.

 

[deathcoy]

Yea, im hoping for such an option too. Viewing the ship in outfitting mode doesnt cut it. Its sad other players can view and admire your ship but you can't >.<

 

[Kirisute]

They have quoted something like "drone cams" which will allow an exterior view. Possibly purchased?
Why they seem to think it has to be that complicated is beyond me but there ya go!

 

[Darkoba]

It's the early 1900's, Ford have released the Model T. It has 20HP and no doors. The Model T evolves, eventually getting doors and windows enclosing the occupants while still allowing a near full view around the car.

It is the late 1900's, cars now have larger windows allowing a large view (especially the rear) and a review mirror to reduce the strain of looking behind. Even basic cars can produce upward of 80-100HP.

It is now, cars have cameras which allow the driver to see directly behind the car. More expensive models have cameras that can see all around the car. Renault even presents a concept car which has a built in quadcopter to fly off and check why the traffic queue has happened (http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/renault-kwid-concept-car-has-its-own-drone-we-kwid-you-not/) - even I have a quadcopter at home that allows me to see through a video camera on the front (thus allowing me to see me in the 3rd person).

I don't understand after only what 100 or so years of development, we have got to a point where looking out of a car window is not our only source of visual information about the world around us, that after 1000 years we would have gone backwards to only being able to look out the front of a space vehicle?

Today cameras are cheap and the computers that control the systems are getting cheaper and more powerful. I don't see it as far fetched that a ship from the 34th century (which is capable of superluminary travel no less) would be covered in cameras, giving it a 360 view of its surroundings in both planes. Nor do I see it as far fetched that between that view of its surroundings, and a 3D simulation of itself, that it couldn't create a live 3D external view of the ship in the space it currently occupies.

NASA gave the arm on the Shuttle a camera so it could check the underside of the vessel for damage during take-off. They have also been looking at having Smartphone powered 'flying' robots for the ISS. Having an external view can be important in real life on a space-vessel (damage assessment), is it so far fetched that in 1,200 years time a space ship would have an upgraded ability to view itself?

What do we want? Realism? Because we would have to be rid of the superluminary travel for one, or maybe the artificial caps on top speed, or the artificial gimping of the yaw axis. Or do we want believability? As long as an external view is done in a believable fashion (external drone, 3D computer simulation etc), then why not have it?

Totally agree!!!

A camera on an arm, or R/C free flying would be almost mandatory for damage control (plus the occasional loving look at your ship when no-one's looking ).
It would also be extremely useful to explorers / miners, etc., who could use such a piece of equipment to check the safety, say, of a newly discovered asteroid.

I have absolutely no idea of how any combat advantage could be gained from this, unless it was used to check around the other side of a floating rock to see if there was an ambush in place - I don't see how that 'spoils' the game immersion. In 'reality', I would certainly use it that way. Actually taking part in combat, but through the eye of such a drone would IMHO only be disadvantageous and downright risky.

Whether or not the images captured by such a drone are shown on a control panel screen, or are shown 'full-screen' is less important to me. Perhaps a 'projector similar to the galaxy map projector could be employed (ie. without cockpit interior) - this would be capable of showing more detail. Or perhaps a screen on the control panel could be 'zoomed-in'?

In any case, I think some manner of looking around from outside the ship would, in the future, be at least an optional extra, if not a mandatory safety feature (remember when it was not mandatory to wear seat-belts?).



A ship who's skin is covered in 'nano-cameras' could / would have an all-round view by projecting the external views onto the inside walls of the cockpit, so it would appear that the pilot was sat on his flight couch out in open space, with just his HUD and controls in front and to the sides, but perhaps that development is for another thousand years further on.



If I am reincarnated in the future when ED has become reality, I am going to make darned sure I have an external drone / camera of some sort