Automation and Scripting - An investigation into further abuses of BGS and Powerplay

[MarkAusten]

Orientate to the jump vector. Not easy, as it can be anywhere. We have not seen this.

There is a video on YouTube that demonstrates this very behaviour with a brief description, if you read the comments, on how it is done. It was using an easily available, relatively basic scripting utility.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Or even better random intervals of not less than 2 hours and not more than 12 that may or may not overlap across accounts.

As you say. many possibilities that are so easy to think up and all put together by a competent programmer would make bot behaviour virtually undetectable.

Hence my conclusion that either the programmer is not that good, or that they wanted to be found out possibly even both.

Completely agree. Again, the bot I was looking at in that vid was made by a complete amateur. They knew enough to script the required pattern recognition and control logic, but didn't try in the least to make it "human". I'll say no more, even though it must be obvious how that should be done.

 

[sollisb]

Unfortunately, this is very easy. Not going to reveal how it's done, but it should be obvious. Why do you say we haven't seen this? Did you watch the vid in the OP where it was shown over and over?



Unfortunately, this is also very easy. Perhaps you should PM me because misinformation like this doesn't help.

The only part of the whole round-trip that's mildly complex is the undocking and traversing the mail slot. Since this was shown in the example vids, everyone should assume the remainder as a given.



What I saw in the vids was a very unsophisticated bot, obviously written by an amateur. As you say yourself, you or I could code one that would be virtually undetectable. So why is it so strange that given such an unsophisticated bot (and presumably operator), that it would accidentally be run in open, or through hubris (as has already been suggested by others), or it's simply bot timing error accidentally sending it into open.

This unsophisticated bot surfacing in open (accidentally or otherwise) is IMO the tip of the iceberg. You'd be naive not to assume that for every crude bot like this there might be dozens of other bots, far better coded, virtually undetectable, that always run in solo. For every hour this crude bot ran in open, we and FDev should assume thousands of hours running in solo, by this bot and many others.

I'm actually laughing to myself. I tried to not give the entire game away. I know exactly how and how to stop FDev ever knowing about it. However, that;d ruin the entire experience for me. Everything I have on all my accounts is totally legit and that;s why i still keep playing. For sure I abused the hell out of Draconis/Robigo/quince etc, but that was all available to me and anyone else who wanted to use them.

I can understand, creating an account, botting it to create wealth and then selling to some sucker... But to effect the BGS is just dumb AF...

 

[MarkAusten]

In my mind I always had the feeling when you want to do something doubtful, the best way is not to be suspicious. The users of the bot might had thought FD would be more focused on detecting automated scripts in solo/PG modes as the 'hiding modes' instead of the plain sight of open.

Hm. I hadn't thought of that. Good call. Still demonstrates the relatively low skill of the programmer to my mind.

 

[ilo]

Hm. I hadn't thought of that. Good call. Still demonstrates the relatively low skill of the programmer to my mind.

You are assuming the programer is the one using the bot, which most likely is not the case.

 

[MarkAusten]

Completely agree. Again, the bot I was looking at in that vid was made by a complete amateur. They knew enough to script the required pattern recognition and control logic, but didn't try in the least to make it "human". I'll say no more, even though it must be obvious how that should be done.

Indeed. And I agree, we are skirting the forum rules just a tad too close.

 

[sollisb]

There is a video on YouTube that demonstrates this very behaviour with a brief description, if you read the comments, on how it is done. It was using an easily available, relatively basic scripting utility.

Like I said to Merkir.. I was trying to not make it aall sound too easy... We're stepping into the realm of making some peeps think its easy so go do it.. The truth, and any coder here knows, it's easy, and if you're any good, undetectable. But lets not get too gubris ourselves

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Yes, sollisb and Mark, I agree it's saying too much. The only reason I entered this thread was the large number of players that apparently don't even believe these bots really exist, or that they are not widespread. That's understandable for those without the technical background in this area. But all players should take it seriously, and FDev moreso.

 

[Sentenza]

Correct. It's just a few extra lines in the script, completely necessary lines, since we all know when we dock or undock, FDev's programmers have conveniently made all the NPCs dock/undock at the same time, effectively blocking our path. It's all part of the docking/undocking "mini-game".

There is obviously a "materialize a Beluga into the slot when player departs" routine. There is ALWAYS a Beluga.

 

[MarkAusten]

You are assuming the programer is the one using the bot, which most likely is not the case.

Possibly, possibly not. It's a very good point however.

 

[Hellakitty]

If one of you clever folk could make me a bot that changed my holo-me’s outfit every day, while keeping some semblance of colour coordination, that would be just great thanks.

 

[Crank Larson]

If one of you clever folk could make me a bot that changed my holo-me’s outfit every day, while keeping some semblance of colour coordination, that would be just great thanks.

That would be exceptionally easy as it is all menu based. But no, I'm not going to do it.

 

[Deareim]

I was waiting for the clever persons saying it is easy to do but i don’ t do it... or i can do it better. Such a wonderful attitude and a little bit hypocrit.

Because, at the end the day, how many people on this thread, if they had the opportunity to bot would not do it.
I think a poll would be interesting : You have to go to A-B-C-D for no game reasons, just time sink and someone comes and tells you : you can go from A to D directly, interested?
Facing the wall of grind, who would not ? It is human nature.

Fondamental problem here is not the bots but the ED game design..

 

[[VR] Merkir]

If one of you clever folk could make me a bot that changed my holo-me’s outfit every day, while keeping some semblance of colour coordination, that would be just great thanks.

I'm sure there's a clever line here about bots never being 100% reliable and perhaps failing to clothe you one day.

 

[Deareim]

Oh well, i dont do BGS stuff myself, but this is an real issue FD have to handel.
Good investigation OP!



Imho detecting patterns is actualy the only thing FD can do a the moment.
I dont know if someone came up with it allready, but I think/fear FD realy have to decide when Scripts become Cheating now.

I mean, Scripts/Makros in general are totally fine imho, im sure I use quite the same "undock-script" myself.
Its a standart command for the HCS-Voice Packs (wich, or better Voiceattack at all, are great fun to use AND extend, "programming" my own Ship-Computer has become some kind of Meta-Game for me I realy love and enjoy to do)
I dont want to make up any numbers here but im quite sure there are a lot of Cmdrs that use VoiceCommands, Makros, Shortcuts ect on a regular basis without a single bad intention and/or affecting anyone.

And here is the problem: What happens if some people starting to complain about other people having an unfair advantage using second party software/makros at all?
I dont say/think its reasonable though, but technically they would be right and when it comes to online-whatever there is one thing for certain: The bumhurt is strong with someone.

So while i agree that FDev have to take some action about the issue, i think they also should/need to come up with some kind of rule set of what is accepted to prevent further "confusion" (what is quite sad, since its just the good ol "few idiots who make things more complicated as they need to be for the large majority and overall great Playerbase" thing)

Edit: Kinda Ninjad in some post while typing [noob]

valid point. For example, since I have the rift, i am using more VA macros.where is the limit then ?

 

[Stigbob]

I was waiting for the clever persons saying it is easy to do but i don’ t do it... or i can do it better. Such a wonderful attitude and a little bit hypocrit.

Because, at the end the day, how many people on this thread, if they had the opportunity to bot would not do it.
I think a poll would be interesting : You have to go to A-B-C-D for no game reasons, just time sink and someone comes and tells you : you can go from A to D directly, interested?
Facing the wall of grind, who would not ? It is human nature.

Fondamental problem here is not the bots but the ED game design..

I wouldn't do it.

Cheats cheat. Money exploits, clogging, rep exploits, pip exploits, engineer exploits, botting it's all exactly the same it's either beneath you or it isn't.

 

[Crank Larson]

Because, at the end the day, how many people on this thread, if they had the opportunity to bot would not do it.

We've all got the opportunity. Some of us have the capability. Doesn't mean that those with the capability have the desire to do it. I program computers for a living. For fun, I'm quite happy not to.

 

[Deareim]

We've all got the opportunity. Some of us have the capability. Doesn't mean that those with the capability have the desire to do it. I program computers for a living. For fun, I'm quite happy not to.

i am more talking about mr. Everybody / casual player.

 

[Stigbob]

i am more talking about mr. Everybody / casual player.

Not many of them in the forum.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Could you email community@frontier.co.uk with all of the commander names that you suspect of botting/cheating/economy manipulation? Will follow up with customer support and our anti cheat team on this. Thanks!

For what it's worth I've just sent you a Mail which might get you a few Candidates.
Good luck.