Totally agree. This is a GAME. There are no Thargoids really. but if there were, they wouldn't sit down and discuss "Colonisation" or "Colonization". They'd suck your brains out......
Hey folks I've just read all the comments you've all had. Thank you all for sharing your input. I know there was a lot to read and a lot to make sense of. It's as foreign and unfamiliar to me as it is to most of you.
I wanted to chime in and clarify a few things. My formatting and wording may have not been perfect.
First of I'd like to thank the mods for giving this a go. Thank you Ian Phillips for keeping this open. I will post your comment at the top of my OP.
I may not fully succeed but I will do my best to keep my replies civil and stay away from as many minefields as I can.
I understand that it may not be fitted for the exploration forum,If there is a better forum to talk to the exploration community about our impact in the game as an exploration community, I would probably much prefer it.
I ask that those participating in this thread to try your best to not use words like snowflake, idiot or social justice warrior/SJW when talking about each other. Or any other derogatory term. This falls under "being polite".
I think Macedonica said it better than I could and answers some of your questions regarding why it matters.
Okay so there are three types of comments I see. Ones that bring up fundamental issues with what was said in the articles. These can be political So i'll do my best to be succinct.
Then there are comments that I believe require clarification on what was said. in the articles.
Fundamental issues:
Being vocal about offensive issues breeds division in society and we need to see ourselves as one human race.
I think a lot of people would love to be seen as just human but can't because society at large does not. I wish it were that simply be considered just human but I don't believe we are at that stage.
In my opinion, pointing out issues with the system that marginalises them where they exist isn't inherently bad. It's necessary.
Real world politics should be left in the real world and has no place in our game
I've seen this point brought up before. I would point folks who have this view to watch this Extra Credits Video:
Basically, all media, games included since the dawn of time has and have always been political because the creators can't remove themselves from the games they make.
If people find the name, "Colonia" offensive or damaging to them, they shouldn't play this game.
It is my belief we as an elite dangerous community should endeavour to be more inclusive as possible rather that exclusive.
I'm hoping that that's something we can all fundamentally agree upon even if we don't agree how to go about it. I'm not saying it isn't difficult, but it is a worthwhile endeavour.
No one has said anything about the word Colonia damaging them. Why is there an issue now?
that's usually due to minority voices having been stifled in the past. It's always been an issue to those affected by colonization, it's just that people are now starting to listen and write about them.
According to Qohen:
So it's inaccurate to say it's only just become an issue. It has always been an issue, except more people are speaking up about it.
Clarification Required:
Are you/the article saying Space colonisation is inherently bad because it's had a bad history(for some at least) on Earth
No one has an issue with humans going to another planet and staying there is inherently bad. We're saying using Colonization to refer to that is. Because it supplants the historical definition and affects of Colonization on a whole lot of people.
it doesn't matter if "No sentient beings or indigenous people's were living out in the the Eol Prou nebula when it was colonized." because it's about the erasure of our history. Colonization had terrible effects still felt today by the indigenous population.
Are you/ the article saying that the word Colonization should be removed from the english language entirely?
The articles are not saying that the words should be excised from the english language. It's saying that they should only be used in their original context of exploitation and subjugation because to do otherwise would overwrite that history... and thus we'd learn nothing from it by reinventing it. That' to me, we shouldn't use it in the context of space exploration.
The word Colonization shouldn't be a problem in the context of space exploration if there were no indigenous inhabitants to begin with and thus Colonia is fine.
The articles are not saying that the words should be excised from the english language. It's saying that they should only be used in their original context of exploitation and subjugation because to do otherwise would overwrite that history... and thus we'd learn nothing from it by reinventing it. That' to me, we shouldn't use it in the context of space exploration.
But either way, we're still going to say we're colonising a planet or colonising space. We're going out there to live there. Colony is a good word. Just because it's been dirtied by others
See I'm starting to believe that may not be true anymore. The article I linked was an interview with Lucianne Walkowicz. She's not a nobody. She's an astronomer who studied the ethics of Mars exploration as the Chair of Astrobiology at the U.S. Library of Congress.
If Neil Degrasse Tyson is recognising it, to me it tells me in the astronomical community have thought about it and felt this way and thus the term is likely to change before we begin settling other planets. Colonization has been a word with negative connotation for centuries. It's not a recent thing.
That would be interesting to know!
If there's any points I've missed, or accidentally strawmanned, please let me know! Please remember the central premise of this thread is to talk about whether we feel words like Colonization used in the context of space and thus in elite: dangerous (with regards to Colonia) leads to harm to people affected by western colonization. by erasing those narratives and rebranding colonialism as this positive thing when it's actually pretty bad.
The aim is to discuss whether we made a mistake in naming Colonia, due to being unaware of the problematic nature of the second bubble's name at the time and what we as an exploration community should do about it if anything.
Olivia a simple name change is small fry in the scheme of things, but where do you draw the line?
The elite background lore is full of atrocities. People can murder each other in this gameworld, and do every day. Should we ban PvP? There have been acts of terrorism conducted by all political parties in ED's history, should those be deleted from the timeline? What about Elite: Reclamation, its a part of the background lore, yet it has genocide as one of its central themes. Should that be re-written or stricken from the archives? What about the sentient alien species in Achenar that was wiped out when the Empire colonized the system, should that be re-written in case it offends people?
I appreciate the thought you've put into your argument, but you start with an intention that soon turns into a Pandora's box because wherever your line in the sand is drawn on a certain issue, is not where someone else draws theirs - and that's an issue as you're never going to appease everyone. All that happens is a rich history, whether its 'good' or 'bad', gets diluted or re-written to suit those who prefer a new sanitized narrative... or worse; prefer certain issues to be completely erased. Those are lines that should never be crossed (in game or out) imo.
As you say, there are plenty of other threads. For me, I've hit the 'ignore thread' button and have asked the mods to move the thread out of the Exploration sub-forum - I don't come here to hear your world views, your philosophy, your take on history or your interpretation on how I can/cannot/should/should not use the English language (or those of your 'idols').
If you'd have delivered them to Colonia during the Twin Candles initiative to ship slaves there and set them free, you could have earned a CCN merit badge!
Politics is a No, no in the forums as it is simply a minefield. If this turns political it WILL be closed per forum guidelines.
The basic idea of language pre-conditioning us is an interesting subject but not best fitted in the exploration forum.
We'll see how it goes and make a moderation decision as needed, so please keep it civil and stay away from minefields and this could be a good discussion.
If you'd have delivered them to Colonia during the Twin Candles initiative to ship slaves there and set them free, you could have earned a CCN merit badge!
Is there any way to block the OP? This drivel offends me immensely - particularly today - and I have no interest in seeing any more of this nauseatingly pathetic garbage.
No this is the language of Political Correctness. This thread is entirely political and in order to respond to it adequately the answers would be very political.
This thread should be closed otherwise why have the rule at all?
Basically, all media, games included since the dawn of time has and have always been political because the creators can't remove themselves from the games they make.
There are games that have a place with utilizing real world politics. Elite Dangerous is not one of them simply because it takes place in 3301 and is science fiction. The only connection it has and should have is that it shares the same galaxy as us and that it has humans in it. Current politics have no place in Elite subsequently.
No, I disagree. At the end of the day this is a game that should not support the "inclusion at all costs" ideology. It would harm this community more than it would help it
That's the way communities work. If your opinion is unpopular, it will become the minority. Being a minority in a community doesn't give your words extra weight.
According to Qohen: Originally Posted by Qohen Leth (Source)
The issue of the name 'Colonia' had been raised by several (myself included) even before it became the de facto name of the system.
Although the biggest issue imho is that it's dreadfully uninspired.
So it's inaccurate to say it's only just become an issue. It has always been an issue, except more people are speaking up about it.
If you will notice, I was very specific on how I worded my quote, the main word being "Damages". Q is not damaged by the word Colonia, he thinks it is uncreative. Your point is moot because it doesn't support what your arguing against in that regard.
If Neil Degrasse Tyson is recognising it, to me it tells me in the astronomical community have thought about it and felt this way and thus the term is likely to change before we begin settling other planets. Colonization has been a word with negative connotation for centuries. It's not a recent thing.
Neil says a lot of things that don't matter, I mean look at his twitter. This doesn't matter. We are supposed to learn from history not dwell on it. You and people who share this view are dwelling on it in terms of this subject. Wouldn't you rather break the mold and attempt to use it how it's supposed to be used rather than try to sweep it under the rug because of things done in it's name? That brings me to my second point. A lot of terrible things have been done in the name of words such as god, justice, progress, and science but I don't see them being lambasted.
I'm interested to know what FD were going to call it as they already had a name set aside, but decided to go with Colonia since it had become part of the players' lexicon pretty quickly. And the only reason it became Colonia is because it was added to the GMP as a temporarily placeholder name in lieu of EOL PROU RS-T D3-94 as we waited for FD to name it! Catch-22!
It could easily have been called the Pagus Nebula or the Diostar Nebula as they were the other names suggested at the same time.
Now I find this bit a bit disingenuous, you cherry picked words out of what he said instead of showing the whole quote, a quote which fervently disagreed with you and seems quite out of place because of it being weirdly quoted. Also the fact that your giving the implication of it agreeing with you by it starting with "Amen"
Now in closing, a massive majority in this thread disagree with you or simply want you to keep politics out of the game. You should honor their wishes and drop it.
Yeah before I purge this interesting and clearly "non political" thread from my memory and life there is a very easy answer to the question relating to ignoring individual posters:
1. Click on poster name.
2. View profile.
3. Locate Add to ignore list option.
4. Click on ignore list option.
Not that i am actively encouraging this, I am just informing those who may not know the process. Easier than posting something which may get you in trouble and sanctioned by the moderators.
Always box clever.
End request: This thread really needs moving from the Exploration subforum. it is clearly getting a lot of members a little annoyed and I feel they may be feeling a little ignored in their posted opinions/requests for its locking/removal. It is additionally mind bogglingly off topic.
Yes truly terrible but let's not leave anything out:
European traders captured some Africans in raids along the coast, but bought most of them from local African or African-European dealers. These dealers had a sophisticated network of trading alliances collecting groups of people together for sale.
When the slave ships arrived from Europe they were laden with trade goods. Captains offered gifts to local African leaders and paid taxes for the right to trade. They then began the serious business of barter and exchange, offering a wide variety of trade goods such as textiles, firearms, alcohol, beads, manillas and cowries.
"All are mere words, of what use are they to you? You are entangled in the web of verbal definitions and formulations. Go beyond your concepts and ideas: in the silence of desire and thought the truth is found."
- "I am That" talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj page 295
Colonisation on Earth involved a bunch of people turning up and declaring everything around them was “mine”.
Critical to this was that there were already people there, and these new colonists decided the6 didn’t count.
So inherent on any Earthlike colonisation was that there were already people they, who would soon either be subjugated, infected with diseases they had no immunity with, exploited, exterminated or plainly ignored (no5 many of the latter).
Conversely, the colonisation of Colonia is probably the purest form of colonisation. Ie. No indigenous life forms who get turfed out, no indigenous plant life that gets changed, actually not a lot here apart from airless worlds. So the opportunity to reinvigorate colonialism back it’s dirty past of the 14th-20th Century terms, doesn’t have anything to latch onto.
Other terms that have political connotations in 21st century appear to be not as relevant as again within the current environs of Colonia where humans are appearing (space stations, star ports on airless worlds) we are not incurring on an indigenous population or fauna and flora to exploit, exterminate or even ignore.
Colonia shouldn’t need to change its name, it has nothing to be ashamed of!
Is there any way to block the OP? This drivel offends me immensely - particularly today - and I have no interest in seeing any more of this nauseatingly pathetic garbage.
"All are mere words, of what use are they to you? You are entangled in the web of verbal definitions and formulations. Go beyond your concepts and ideas: in the silence of desire and thought the truth is found."
- "I am That" talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj page 295
Sorry, you're not on. This whole thread has NOTHING to do with EXPLORATION and everything to do with the OP pushing his/her own political agenda. What is worse is they are being allowed to continue by the very people tasked with keeping the forum on topic. I will not use the "ignore thread" feature, I refuse to turn a blind eye to this. This thread has no right to be in here, what has "language as a predeterminator" got to do with exploration? Go on, I'm all ears. There is a perfectly good forum "Off Topic Discussion" and it should be moved there post haste. It will be right at home with the Brexit discussions and other toxic rubbish.
I respectfully request this thread be moved out of the exploration forum as it is completely off topic.
Exactly this. Nobody is blameless. Now, let's just all accept that there is plenty of guilt to go around for those foolish enough to insist on carrying that burden, and let's the rest of us get on with enjoying our space game.
Mods, I respect you guys, but your call on this one is just so far off base that it's kind of funny.
(Source)
