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NO POLITICS please! We play games to escape the <stuff> we have to endure daily.

Please keep discussions like this out of the game/forum!

No one I know was offended by the name Colonia so don’t look for trouble where there isn’t any o7
 
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Forceful colonization of an already inhabited place with no concern for those already there, or an outright attempt to displace and/or destroy current inhabitants, is a far cry from what Colonia is in Elite: Dangerous. There were no indigenous populations of any extant, sentient, or sapient, beings in the systems currently part of Colonia.

Even if Colonia were the most negative sort of colonization, the kind where the term is naught but a euphemism for a process of genocidal invasion, mass theft, and slavery, it would still be occurring within the context of the game, and should be supported or opposed in that context as well. Perhaps if this were the case Frontier should have framed it more neutrally or negatively, and allowed more player character agency in it's success or failure (specisim, racism, ethnocentrism, and more all have their place in Elite's setting; a depiction of an act is not the same as the act), but again, this isn't what Colonia is.

Well yes, but in our case the Romans did bring peace. And the roads. And it would be safe to walk at night if they were still here.

The violent crime rate of Rome itself from the 1st century BC to the 4th century AD, not to mention far flug fringes of the late Republic/Empire, almost certainly made them far more dangerous places than any you could possibly be referring to today.
 
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Roll on global warming hopefully it will melt all these snowflakes.

Whats next? One person is offended by the letter A so we have to re-do the alphabet or more likely “the sound of the English language offends me because the British ruled my country for a bit, yes it was decades before I was born but that’s not the point I’m offended so the English language should be banned and all it’s natural speakers castigated”.

Today is the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1 I’m just glad none of those who faced that barbaric conflict are alive to see what their sacrifice led to. A society of ungrateful wingers hell bent on taking offence at the slightest opportunity regardless of facts or the situation.

well in 1hr I’m going to put on my Sunday best, go down to my local cenotaph with hundreds more, show my respect for those who stood up when called and paid the ultimate sacrifice and to show not everyone alive today is an ungrateful whinging snowflake.
 
Social Justice Warrior (SJW) stuff should also be left out of space altogether, actually

+1

And I should also add, that the word "colonia" is actually older than the social phenomenon, described in the OP, and that it comes, actually, from the different language, where it meant, actually, different thing.

And that even now on planet Earth there are different cultures with different languages, where different words mean, actually, different things (what a surprise!), and some people might get offended by some of those words, while the others might not get offended.

And that proclaiming someone's culture, someone's language and someone's ways to get offended the only right ways to go and pushing this to all others by force (because, you know, those ways are the only right ways and beware anyone who doesn't agree) -- is actually one of the best ways to offend a lot of people.
 
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I believe you are conflating colonisation with colonialism. The former is benign, the latter oppressive.

In this case, the former is occurring and maybe we should not look for offense where there is none.
 
To shamelessly rip from etymonline:

colony(n)

[...] from Latin colonia "settled land, farm, landed estate," from colonus "husbandman, tenant farmer, settler in new land," from colere "to cultivate, to till; to inhabit; to frequent, practice, respect; tend, guard, [removed some less relevant but not negative parts]

In reference to modern situations, "company or body of people who migrate from their native country to cultivate and inhabit a new place while remaining subject to the mother country," attested from 1540s. Meaning "a country or district colonized" is by 1610s.

Apart from someone getting its panties in a twist because someone used a word in a negative context and thus henceforth use of the word shall be forbidden in all eternity even though it is correctly and concisely identifying the situation at hand, there is no problem until Colonia formally declares independence from the bubble, and wouldn't that be entertaining.

And to make things even more ridiculous, I hereby demand that the city of Köln (Cologne, née Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium) shall be renamed to rescind its vile repressed past.
 
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Ian Phillips

Volunteer Moderator
Lets set some ground rules for this discussion.

Politics is a No, no in the forums as it is simply a minefield. If this turns political it WILL be closed per forum guidelines.

The basic idea of language pre-conditioning us is an interesting subject but not best fitted in the exploration forum.

We'll see how it goes and make a moderation decision as needed, so please keep it civil and stay away from minefields and this could be a good discussion.

Thanks for your consideration.
 
Introduction:
...
To you I say, games have always been political and have always reflected our understanding of the world. They do not exist separate from it and because of that we could do our best to ensure the game is inclusive to everyone.
...
So please, comment, discuss, argue and be polite. ...

We all due respect that's uttter drivel and nonsense.

Recall the Solo v Open mode argument? The PP Open only mode argument? Concerning the BGS among other issues?

How is this political? In the sense of the real world politics that impact on each individual human's life every moment?

The ideal that a game can be 'inclusive' to everyone cannot be achieved. Idealism is dangerous and human history is repelete with the disastrous consequences of people trying to achieve it: imposition by force being the usual consequence.

I abhor slavery, in all its forms. In ED I will not and never will participate in any slave trading. That's not a political decision. However I will not endeavour to impose my 'idealism' or my sense of politics on this game or its players.

Your post has an odour of political correctness about it.
 
First, sorry for my english.

Second, i find a very shortsighted idea taking all the history of human expansion under the "westerner" prism. The european colonization of América and África was the last of many in history, and a flawed example per se. There were already native human civilizations, Eol Prou was empty.

If there's an example on human history of our narrative ingame, this should be the crossing of the Bering strait by the first north american settlers, or the polinesians setting sails East to settle in an empty South América.

We can't pretend history started yesterday with ours. And for this, I find all that words of racism and offence in space exploration, selfish and silly.
 
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absolutely!

the genocide of 750 innocent Eol-Prouanians should not be forgotten !!!
QHD6pzX.jpg
 
Hoo boy. Unfortunately, I expected that the snowflakes who would be offended about the simple suggestion that we might need to rethink some names would show up.

While I never liked the name Colonia, and was mildly disappointed that Frontier decided to go with it, in this case, what's done is done. I find it highly unlikely that Frontier would change it now, if for nothing else, then because the same reaction would happen, just amplified a lot because of the larger audience. Plus the renaming wouldn't make much in-game sense.

Perhaps a new settlement could be done elsewhere, with a better name and not mostly populated by PMFs, but I think it's too late to change Colonia now.
 
Introduction:
I read this article recently called We need to change the way we talk about space exploration by National Geographic

Then I started following the links and started reading The Racist Language of Space Exploration by the outline

and Event Horizon by Reallifemag
And then How decolonization could reshape South African science by Nature

I'm usually feel like I have a good grasp on most things space but these the points forwarded by these articles have left me struggling because of the complexity of these issues.

To me, these articles collectively state:
"The terminology and vocabulary we use when we talk about space exploration is problematic because they put forward a narrative that is harmful to minorities"

What does that mean?
For example, let's take the term "colonization".
Be it setting up a colony on Mars or the Moon or Achenar, space colonization is always framed in a positive light despite the negative impact that colonization has and still continues to have.Practically every western colony resulted in the exploitation and subjugation of humans enmasse.
There's never been a case in history where a colony hasn't resulted in harm to the indigenous population.
and those effects are still felt by those marginalized groups of folks.

According to Lucianne Walkowicz who studyies the ethics of Mars exploration as the Chair of Astrobiology at the U.S. Library of Congress:


What does this have to do with Elite: Dangerous and the exploration community?
I like Elite: Dangerous. I like playing in this huge sandbox. I like the player-led communities and all that we can accomplish together.
But after reading this article I realised that the term Colonization has came up in Elite: Dangerous. and it's one we as a community had put forward without realizing the implications.
I'm speaking of course about Colonia.

From EDSM via the Galactic Mapping Project:


Colonia was built on the idea of creating a new colony. And it was done in a positive light.

Now let me first say that I nor should anyone harbour any ill will to the CMDR who coined the name for the system and region. This isn't about individual members of the communities this is about us as a whole.
I think it may be possible that the name we chose for the second bubble is problematic because by doing so, we as a community helped "[erase] the history of colonization here on our own planet.

And that's disconcerting to me. One because it's already done. and two because I don't know if there'd be any support to change the name. I'm worried that perhaps the devs would not be willing to do so.
A lot of our in game lore and stories in the region are tied to the name Colonia, and what it represents.
Still... I feel like we've collectively done a disservice to those who continued to be affected by the legacy colonization and that maybe, just maybe,

"We should try and suggest to frontier as that same community again to change the name."

I don't know what we should change it to. But I think we should do it. Like correcting incorrect science, we should correct problematic terminology. or at the very least, recognize and present that what we had done was problematic and harmful to others outside of the game.

Now I understand to some of you folks that:

  • This is just a game
  • This is set in the far future and maybe those narratives aren't as important (because in 3300, racism is cured)
  • This game has slavery what about that huh? Do you want it to be removed?

To you I say, games have always been political and have always reflected our understanding of the world. They do not exist separate from it and because of that we could do our best to ensure the game is inclusive to everyone.
We as the exploration community should talk about the effect we have and whether that effect can be damaging to others in the real world.
Slavery is problemtic but we as players are given that ethical choice by the game to choose to engage in it or not and that is beneficial to understanding the slave trade out of game. The narrative of Colonization is one that we can't not choose to engage in.

So please, comment, discuss, argue and be polite. This is not as easy topic but I think everyone here has a stake in it but as always, if this isn't something you're interested in, there are plenty of other threads.

These articles make terrible arguments, specifically the second one. The author attributes the dawn of racism and colonization to America. As if Arno other point in history were anyone conquered or treated differently for arbitrary attributes.

We do not need to rename Colonia. We do not need to rethink the way that we discuss space travel. Since humans first drew breath on this earth, they have sought to expand and explore. The Egyptians did it, the Vikings did it, the British did it. Now this instinctual drive to reach out will extend to the stars. As far as we know, there is no indigenous population on any planet or body we are looking to inhabit. This fact alone renders most comparisons moot.

On a base level, this is intellectual laziness that requires cherrypicked facts. The whole argument boils down to “colonialism 400 years ago was bad, so we should still feel bad”. I don’t think we need to nerf language based on the sins of our forefathers. What we need to do is come together as a species and figure out how to get off this rock.

P.S. for anyone interested in how a futuristic society would struggle with colonialism /bigotry, check out The Expanse
 
Words fail me, they really do.
Further more the auto filter won’t let me post the words I want to say, it keeps removing the key ones!
 
I like the name Colonia for the region and I'd vote for it to stay as it is.


NOW, a higher priority topic for discussion regarding colonizing space in Elite would be....whatever will we call the third new bubble for explorers to grow anew? :D
 
Hoo boy. Unfortunately, I expected that the snowflakes who would be offended about the simple suggestion that we might need to rethink some names would show up.

huh? so you're labeling people on this thread snowflakes for not kowtowing to the PC brigade? seen it all now LOL :rolleyes:

Seriously what? I want to play a game not get engrossed in Politically correct nonsense.

'Tis the most nonsensical thread i've seen on here for a while. :D
 
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