What do think is coming to Planet Zoo this month?

[Aramar]

I also don't care about endemic for an european pack, but more about iconic. That's why I would add the moose in an european pack and not in a north america pack. Moose are highly iconic to sweden and other scandinavian regions and is found in every "Tierpark" here (zoo that specialize more in european animals and is usually imbeded in quite untouched nature).

There are enough other american animals I would put in spot of the moose

I agree that moose belong in a European pack as much as in a North America pack. For curiosity, would you choose a moose over a deer for Europe? I would go for the deer because it is present from the south to the north of Europe, while the moose is only present in the north. A deer offers more flexibility, especially for southern European countries which have almost nothing yet in the game. That's why I prefer to get the moose in a North America pack and free a spot in the European DLC for the deer. We can get a wolverine or beaver in Europe to free a spot in NA.

i agree…. I asked earlier, and repeat here: Why do you want 4 European species +1+ theme in a Europe pack rather than 5-6 European species but no theme in a 8+1 Eurasia animal pack? Where did you see the list with mostly Asian animals? I didn’t see one.

This is not against your idea of an Eurasian pack, which is not a bad idea. It refers to other people's ideas of an Eurasian pack which based on the lists of animals they have provided, were actually Asian packs disguised as Eurasian by adding just one or two European animals. There have been several examples of this on the forum. So yes, getting 5-6 European species is better that getting 4, but getting 4 is better than getting 2 like some people (not you) suggested.

End of quotes

Another problem I personally have with an Eurasian pack is: how do I choose between a lynx and a leopard? because I need both and a Eurasian pack would probably just include one cat. How do I choose between a mouflon/ibex and a markhor/takin? I need at least two of them, one per continent, but I doubt a pack would include more than one goat-like creature. How do I choose between a king cobra/python or a fire salamander? Both Europe and Asia are desperately lacking of exhibit animals.

In my opinion, merging Europe and Asia kills the chance of getting some animals that are must have for me, and I'm talking about the animals that are probably meant to be the stars of the pack.

 

[avietar]

I'm well aware of the historical importance of European zoos like Antwerp, London, or Berlin--yet all these zoos became famous for their exotic collections, no?

I'm all for fallow deer, lynx, badgers, etc.--I just don't know which European animal would be as well-positioned to headline a DLC pack as a penguin or meerkat. Frontier has their bottom line to be concerned about.

Red deer or Ibex would be great headliners they are magnificent, especially red deer.

 

[ElectricMonk]

I agree that moose belong in a European pack as much as in a North America pack. For curiosity, would you choose a moose over a deer for Europe? I would go for the deer because it is present from the south to the north of Europe, while the moose is only present in the north. A deer offers more flexibility, especially for southern European countries which have almost nothing yet in the game. That's why I prefer to get the moose in a North America pack and free a spot in the European DLC for the deer. We can get a wolverine or beaver in Europe to free a spot in NA.

This is not against your idea of an Eurasian pack, which is not a bad idea. It refers to other people's ideas of an Eurasian pack which based on the lists of animals they have provided, were actually Asian packs disguised as Eurasian by adding just one or two European animals. There have been several examples of this on the forum. So yes, getting 5-6 European species is better that getting 4, but getting 4 is better than getting 2 like some people (not you) suggested.

End of quotes

Another problem I personally have with an Eurasian pack is: how do I choose between a lynx and a leopard? because I need both and a Eurasian pack would probably just include one cat. How do I choose between a mouflon/ibex and a markhor/takin? I need at least two of them, one per continent, but I doubt a pack would include more than one goat-like creature. How do I choose between a king cobra/python or a fire salamander? Both Europe and Asia are desperately lacking of exhibit animals.

In my opinion, merging Europe and Asia kills the chance of getting some animals that are must have for me, and I'm talking about the animals that are probably meant to be the stars of the pack.

All of the packs so far have left out key animals which are still missing from each region. I’d consider all of the following to be ‘must have’: Arctic fox, musk ox, capybara, vicuña, wallaby, emu, Tasmanian devil, grey kangaroo, gibbon, etc., etc… No matter what, some ‘key’ species wouldd be missing, but they might well appear in a later pack (e.g. SA animals in aquatic). For example, a leopard or lynx subspecies / species could be added in an endangered species pack very easily.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Red deer or Ibex would be great headliners they are magnificent, especially red deer.

That's what I would have said as well.
I still think the headliner species idea is debateable and only somewhat true, a red deer is indeed an animal that I would call a headliner. Basically, just like with every "headliner" animal, it comes down to presentation.

A Koala that is presented with what it does most of the day - sleeping - wouldn't be interesting for a lot of people. A deer on a summer meadow? Eh, not so much. But present it roaring in an autum setting, sell the DLC during fall in the northern hemisphere, and you definately got people interested. All in all, I think europe is perfect for an autumn pack. Even much better than a north america pack with a sea lion as key species.I think that would sell better next summer, but of course, that's all speculation, as much as what a key animal is or not.

And in my opinion, cats always sell, so an eurasian lynx would be a good headliner as well. Or the red fox. There are enough crazy people in the world already that keep foxes as pets and while I don't agree with it, it just shows the popularity of this animal. Playful fox and people will buy.

@Aramar would make an animal pack out of europe and think moose and red deer would both fit in it. But I'm kind of in the north, so I'm probably biased. For me a wolverine is an american animal for me personally, but I'm sure someone could proof with some numbres that they are more common in europe. However, I rarely see them in european zoos, which, looking at zootierliste, is obviously due to where I live / what zoos I visited. I see elks quite more often.

 

[random goat]

I personally wouldn't mind an Eurasian Animal pack. In fact, I'd actually prefer it over a 4+1 Europe pack, essentially because I cannot think of any European architecture that can't be built with the current pieces, besides maybe a rustic-mossy stone wall set.

On the 'headliners' topic, a potential Europe pack could have almost as many as the SEA pack or a potential NA, except for the sea lion.
Eurasian or Iberian lynx
Red deer
Elk/Moose
Alpine ibex
Even the Eurasian beaver
Any of those could easily be at the cover of the DLC and it'd make it as appealing as others.

Imagine you make it an Eurasian pack and the Amur leopard and Przewalski horse/takin are added too. The animal selection would make it a top DLC.

 

[Cynogale bennettii II]

Interesting and cool! I stand corrected,… the distinction between species and subspecies is often a fine one. Is it universally agreed or disputed?

Certainly not universally agreed - the IUCN for instance have not split the species yet (although they do say that both physical and genetic evidence suggests they should be split).

 

[ElectricMonk]

Certainly not universally agreed - the IUCN for instance have not split the species yet (although they do say that both physical and genetic evidence suggests they should be split).

Yeah, I checked the IUCN but no other sources. Thanks for the info

 

[Xificayd]

Imagine you make it an Eurasian pack and the Amur leopard and Przewalski horse/takin are added too. The animal selection would make it a top DLC.

As much as you want an amur leopard or przewalski horse, don't mix them up with the Europe DLC, because those animals aren't eurasian to any extent, they are strictly far east asian.

 

[ElectricMonk]

As much as you want an amur leopard or przewalski horse, don't mix them up with the Europe DLC, because those animals aren't eurasian to any extent, they are strictly far east asian.

East Asia is a part of Eurasia.

 

[random goat]

As much as you want an amur leopard or przewalski horse, don't mix them up with the Europe DLC, because those animals aren't eurasian to any extent, they are strictly far east asian.

Eurasia comprises animals from Europe and Asia and it's a concept greatly associated with fauna from both continents in the northern hemisphere. Iberian lynx and Alpine ibex are not present in Asia either, but that doesn't mean they're not Eurasian animals.
And fyi I don't want any of those 2 Asian animals really, it's just what the general public wants. I couldn't care less about the horse and, while I'd like a leopard in PZ, I'd rather have the Persian or Sri Lankan subspecies.
I'm European and I advocate for as many European animals making the cut as possible. But we have to be realistic too, and making an European animal pack wouldn't have as many popular animals as a potential Eurasian animal pack. Plus it'd make no sense to make an animal pack for our continent whereas SA and Australia only got 4 habitat animals in their respective packs.

 

[Laura_91]

I'm well aware of the historical importance of European zoos like Antwerp, London, or Berlin--yet all these zoos became famous for their exotic collections, no?

I'm all for fallow deer, lynx, badgers, etc.--I just don't know which European animal would be as well-positioned to headline a DLC pack as a penguin or meerkat. Frontier has their bottom line to be concerned about.

Im from the UK and I kind of agree with you here. A lot of the animals requested for Europe to me aren't zoo animals. Ive not visited too many zoos outside of the UK, and this maybe why but I dont think ive seen them in zoos.

 

[markun]

But we have to be realistic too, and making an European animal pack wouldn't have as many popular animals as a potential Eurasian animal pack.

That’s completely subjective unless you have access to extensive market research on the matter.

Im from the UK and I kind of agree with you here. A lot of the animals requested for Europe to me aren't zoo animals. Ive not visited too many zoos outside of the UK, and this maybe why but I dont think ive seen them in zoos.

Europe, including the UK is full of zoos with animals like Eurasian and Iberian lynx, wild boar, wisent, various deer species including moose/elk and more. They are found in all kinds of zoos from city zoos like Amsterdam to specialised collections in the Alps or Scandinavia.

In the UK alone there are around 28 zoos with lynx and 28 with fallow deer - that’s not counting deer parks or stately homes with just deer in their grounds. The UK also has zoos specialising in European/British wildlife like the British Wildlife Centre in Surrey, Wildwood in Kent and the New Forest Wildlife Park. Then there is the amazing (never visited but one day…) Highland Wildlife Park with wolverine, Eurasian elk, red deer, Finnish forest reindeer, grey wolf, wisent, lynx, Arctic fox and many more species from colder parts of Asia.

European species are definitely zoo species.

 

[random goat]

That’s completely subjective unless you have access to extensive market research on the matter.

Well, none of us have access to that.
But after 2 years of checking most PZ platforms on a daily basis, I think it's no secret that a leopard (preferably Amur) or the wild horse are more requested than pretty much any European animal other than the elk/moose, the Alpine ibex and a species of lynx. Especially among non-European people, who are a significant part of the PZ community.

Even the meta-wishlist, despite its limited sample size and the fact that it's biased by the European and NA communities (we're majority in the forum), indicates that these two Asian animals would be perfect complements (if not 'headliners') of a potential Eurasian pack.

 

[markun]

But after 2 years of checking most PZ platforms on a daily basis, I think it's no secret that a leopard (preferably Amur) or the wild horse are more requested than pretty much any European animal other than the elk/moose, the Alpine ibex and a species of lynx. Especially among non-European people, who are a significant part of the PZ community.

But that doesn’t logically imply that European animals wouldn’t be a popular addition. A capybara is no doubt in more demand than an ibex. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t make an ibex.

 

[random goat]

But that doesn’t logically imply that European animals wouldn’t be a popular addition. A capybara is no doubt in more demand than an ibex. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t make an ibex.

But I never said that
In an ideal situation, I'd vouch for 8 European animals plus some more Asian ones in a different pack.
I said that on top of 5-6 European animals (eg. lynx species, Alpine ibex, elk, red deer, red fox), it'd be more popular and it'd make more sense for Frontier to include the Amur leopard and the wild horse and make it an Eurasian animal pack.
If Frontier made an European animal pack, the amount of backlash they'd receive would be gigantic because i) it would include less popular animals than the 2 Asian ones I mentioned, and ii) it would be unfair to Oceania and South America as they got 4+1 packs.

 

[markun]

If Frontier made an European animal pack, the amount of backlash they'd receive would be gigantic because i) it would include less popular animals than the 2 Asian ones I mentioned, and ii) it would be unfair to Oceania and South America as they got 4+1 packs.

You don’t know that. None of us do.

 

[Aramar]

it would be unfair to Oceania and South America as they got 4+1 packs

Although I understand what you mean, I disagree on this part. Those two packs (which I agree they lack lots of animals) were probably planned and released at the beginning of the lifespan of the game. Since then, feedback has focused on that we want more animals. So if a new pack that is released afterwards takes into account that feedback and adds more animals, I wouldn't say it is unfair for those original packs. Otherwise why do we provide feedback if we can't change the model? Also, wouldn't it be unfair that North America or Europe have had to wait two years to get a pack and those regions only had to wait a few months?

 

[avietar]

And just because animals from Oceania and South America are still missing, that doesn't mean they'll never be added because most of them are high profile animals and highly desired by the community.

However, if Europe doesn't get a pack, I'm afraid European animals would be easily skipped because they aren't as high profile as exotic animals. (depends on where you live whether an animal is exotic of course, but everyone gets what I mean right?)

 

[random goat]

Although I understand what you mean, I disagree on this part. Those two packs (which I agree they lack lots of animals) were probably planned and released at the beginning of the lifespan of the game. Since then, feedback has focused on that we want more animals. So if a new pack that is released afterwards takes into account that feedback and adds more animals, I wouldn't say it is unfair for those original packs. Otherwise why do we provide feedback if we can't change the model? Also, wouldn't it be unfair that North America or Europe have had to wait two years to get a pack and those regions only had to wait a few months?

If so, they should then make animal packs for these continents too, or at least add 4 more animals from each now that they know our feedback. Otherwise it would be unfair, given the biodiversity of these continents.
And no, it is not unfair that NA or Europe had to wait more for their own packs because Australia and SA only had 1 habitat animals in the base-game. NA and Europe had >4 each after the Arctic pack (which was entirely NA-Europe fauna). Needless to say that, after all, some packs have to be released before others.

And just because animals from Oceania and South America are still missing, that doesn't mean they'll never be added because most of them are high profile animals and highly desired by the community.

However, if Europe doesn't get a pack, I'm afraid European animals would be easily skipped because they aren't as high profile as exotic animals. (depends on where you live whether an animal is exotic of course, but everyone gets what I mean right?)

I'll follow markun's principle here: You don't know that. None of us do.
European animals have as much chance as Australian or South American animals to be included in other future packs. We don't know what the future holds. What we know is that the number of DLCs is limited, and some parts of Asia like North-Asia and the Middle-East are also underrepresented. Wouldn't it be egotistical to ask for 8 European animals and leave these parts of Asia potentially with no representation?

 

[Aramar]

If so, they should then make animal packs for these continents too, or at least add 4 more animals from each now that they know our feedback. Otherwise it would be unfair, given the biodiversity of these continents.

But we are already in that situation, right? The SEA animal pack has happened. Was that pack unfair to South America and Australia then? South America got three additional animals, so have they catched up?