Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?

[Skip Rockbounder]

I think making the FSS so 'all encompassing' was a mistake and it's delivery was done wrongly etc, etc...
The fact that options were removed is at the least shortsighted and could and should be remedied, the old BDS IDS and ADS did nothing more than allow you to see a map that seemingly just scrolled open wider the more money you spent on the module that began as a honk and ended with the whirlygig, the map was for many the prize and the tool for many others, you can talk about whetevermetric data gathering all you want but the old and new systems didn't and don't do any of that, they simply present information is a delayed fashion.
And now I've just been ninja'd by Sysmon... but I'll continue a bit.

As Sysmon says above tools are critical to the immersion (murshun) of the game and the option of pinging for gravity waves from masses, and radio waves, visible light and other light waves, scans for particles emitted from masses or trails should be doable and visibly doable, but the reward and effort has to be addressed, whether that reward is a map of black blobs, a side note in the nav panel, or a highlight on the totally fuzzy ball on in the (all but forgotten about) orrery*
We need could really do with some Exploration 'add on' tools for Exploration... we have slots!

*And why does the spellchecker ED uses not know what an Orrery is?
Edited : mistakes bit.

 

[Riverside]

The ADS was essential equipment once, unless you had all the time in the world to explore and therefore happy with one of the two cheaper versions. It has now been fully replaced with a more interesting tool that admittedly hinders some styles of game play, although game play styles that regrettably developed because FD was rather slow developing the FSS.

I used the ADS for exploration, for finding stuff to look at it in systems. And I thought it was dead dull and stopped short of doing anything but giving me an odd mix of too much and not enough information.

HOWEVER! There is a place for BDS/IDS/ADS like tools: Tools that simply populates the nav panel and system map with a set of bodies based on system composition: No other data should be present except size and overall type (gas giant or rocky/icy/metallic body, basic orbital configuration). The system map should have a set of blank blobs. Any more data should then be gatherable by flying to each body and scanning it further.

I wasn't against having the ADS, just that it gave too much detail for too little effort. And the effort to be spent after then honk to get more was too much of the wrong kind of effort.

S

There is no need to gimp the old tools if they are reinstated. There is a desire to from those that wouldn't use them, there is no need.

It does not matter how others choose to discover a system.

 

[Darkfyre99]

What you are referring to as interesting stuff is not … that is the niff-naff and trivial information.

The interesting stuff is the nature of the bodies which the pre-3.3 ADS honk did not reveal and neither does the auto-reveal of non-virgin systems.

You do realize that different people find different things interesting, don't you? And just like you prefer to have an active hand in discovering information you find interesting, I want an active hand in discovering the information I find interesting.

The long and the short of it is FD have an obligation to retain the pre-3.3 exploration experience in some shape or form and to not do so would be essentially breeching the consumer rights of those that have invested in the exploration since release. FD may own the IP of their product but they are bound by consumer trading laws and essentially were ill-advised to change things as they have done.

I look forward to following your lawsuit then. You have filed a lawsuit over this egregious violation of your rights, haven't you?

 

[Darkfyre99]

The BDS, with it's 500 light second range, should be incorporated into the FSS's functionality. It's only fair for objects at that range to be populated, if not detail scanned.

Not just no, but hell no.

I have no problem adding back in some of the _DS functionality as optional modules, but I don't want any part of those things added back into the FSS. It's bad enough that systems that others have explored get spoiled for me in this manner. The last thing I need is having 90% of unexplored systems getting spoiled in this manner. I explore for the joy of discovery, and its hard to discover anything for yourself if automated systems are doing it for you instantly at the press of a button.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

There is no need to gimp the old tools if they are reinstated. There is a desire to from those that wouldn't use them, there is no need.

It does not matter how others choose to discover a system.

I would like tools that work with the FSS. For me the ADS as it was does not. So while I am okay for tools to be added and even something like the old ADS, I would much much prefer them to work with it

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Opinions vary on whose opinions are dumb & whose are super likeable. The simple solution is to do as they did with mining & just leave the old stuff in & not get worked up about how other people play.

Some are just dumb and that's nothing to do with opinions. Things like the consumer act, Fdev are punishing me and so forth, people that don't want the ADS back are victimising people, silly descriptions which can also be applied to other mechanics in the game, but those mechanics are fine. Utterly hilarious. There have been many such comments.

As to the simplest solution that is to just except Fdev don't want it in and will not add it in and adapt/change your playstyle to what has been added. That is the simplest solution.

 

[Riverside]

I would like tools that work with the FSS. For me the ADS as it was does not. So while I am okay for tools to be added and even something like the old ADS, I would much much prefer them to work with it

There are lots of extra little nuggets that could be added, to allow players to pick & choose, or to optimise a ship in a particular way depending on playstyle. They haven't been though, and there would need to be a design & feasibility process for any new module. The ADS is a known quantity, it can be quickly & easily added back into the game. When a player explores in the bubble (as I am doing at the moment as a secondary 'income source' for my factions) they are already able to use the functionality I am looking to have reinstated.

 

[HAMM3R]

Suppose they could tie Codex/Universal Cartography more into things. Like, when you enter a system someone's explored already, you'd get a short "Codex entry found" message. Then, say, selecting the main star from the Nav Panel there'd be a button to "Update system info" that would populate the Sys Map (and Nav Panel) with unexplored bodies. That way you could choose if you want to find and explore everything yourself or use data someone else has already gathered.

Or something like that. Just a thought that popped into mind while skimming through the thread.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

There are lots of extra little nuggets that could be added, to allow players to pick & choose, or to optimise a ship in a particular way depending on playstyle. They haven't been though, and there would need to be a design & feasibility process for any new module. The ADS is a known quantity, it can be quickly & easily added back into the game. When a player explores in the bubble (as I am doing at the moment as a secondary 'income source' for my factions) they are already able to use the functionality I am looking to have reinstated.

Personally I would have that functionality removed as it has made the Nav beacons virtually useless. I would also have preferred the FSS as an optional module.

I don't know how easy it will be to add a completely separate mechanic in the game.

 

[Darkfyre99]

The only comments about the fuss I find hard to fathom are when people exclaim it changes the game, enables discovery, liberation from something completely not possible in the past, but then go out of their way to avoid using it.

If I could get by without touching the fuss, I'm sure id be full of praise for it too.

EDIT: But that is just pointing out logic. Of course complete respect for working out a way to enjoy something of that caliber. Lesser folk are still challenged by it.

I suspect that this is directed at me.

Much like Supercruise, my enjoyment of the FSS isn't because I "go out of my way to avoid using it." My enjoyment is that the FSS was designed in such a way that my use of it gets me to where I want to go faster than the simply understood "minigame" that some people insist is the "correct" way to use it. There is a wealth of information provided by the FSS that most players ignore in favor of the "minigame." I don't ignore them, and much like how taking advantage of the mass lock effect vs the "forum recommended technique" can save you time in Supercruise, reading the signs in the FSS saves me time over the "minigame."

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

Personally I would have that functionality removed as it has made the Nav beacons virtually useless. I would also have preferred the FSS as an optional module.

I don't know how easy it will be to add a completely separate mechanic in the game.

My mate used to explore and travel via the nav panel almost exclusively, I never used it really, he also used the Beacons... But, nope, I never used them myself, funny how options make for different gameplay.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

My mate used to explore and travel via the nav panel almost exclusively, I never used it really, he also used the Beacons... But, nope, I never used them myself, funny how options make for different gameplay.

I'm not against different options.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

I'm not against different options.

Didn't think or indicate you were, you mentioned two features and I remembered how me and my mate differed.

 

[Sunyavadin]

My mate used to explore and travel via the nav panel almost exclusively, I never used it really, he also used the Beacons... But, nope, I never used them myself, funny how options make for different gameplay.

It's really so frustrating not being able to use it for that when at the same time the honk autopopulates it with lagrange clouds and it's the only way to locate those because they don't show up in the FSS.
Like, there's no coherent design philosophy at play here. No unified consistency.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I suspect that this is directed at me.

Much like Supercruise, my enjoyment of the FSS isn't because I "go out of my way to avoid using it." My enjoyment is that the FSS was designed in such a way that my use of it gets me to where I want to go faster than the simply understood "minigame" that some people insist is the "correct" way to use it. There is a wealth of information provided by the FSS that most players ignore in favor of the "minigame." I don't ignore them, and much like how taking advantage of the mass lock effect vs the "forum recommended technique" can save you time in Supercruise, reading the signs in the FSS saves me time over the "minigame."

No.... was directed at Max. The only times we've replied its been about the game and there's been some great insight shared. On topic is that but going 'ner ner' is something else. My post was as pointless as the one I replied to.

Brasso is something that may aid the hardware used while jousting just in case.

Hey wait.. that would mean I was jousting. Damn it

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

No.... was directed at Max. The only times we've replied its been about the game and there's been some great insight shared. On topic is that but going 'ner ner' is something else. My post was as pointless as the one I replied to.

Brasso is something that may aid the hardware used while jousting just in case.

Hey wait.. that would mean I was jousting. Damn it

Why would it be directed at me? Not sure how it applies.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

It's really so frustrating not being able to use it for that when at the same time the honk autopopulates it with lagrange clouds and it's the only way to locate those because they don't show up in the FSS.
Like, there's no coherent design philosophy at play here. No unified consistency.

I feel that the 'mechanics' used to present these or seemingly any other Phenomena is immersion breaking really, where you have to select the USS and activate it otherwise you never see it, I don't know of another way of presenting stuff in the USS's because I'm just a decorator not a game designer... but to me, if I fly toward a USS I would like to see the stuff in it when I slow down without having to select it so I can enter that little private world it's kept in... murshun.

 

[Old Duck]

This is the song that never ends,
yes it goes on and on my friend.
Some people started singing it,
not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue singing it forever just because...

 

[marx]

But no, that is not what I was talking about. I am saying that new explorers will likely be travelling the well travelled routes to visit the sites. While they are still exploring, they will be finding far less virgin systems.

Sure, that sounds good at first, but once again, reality intrudes. Explorers on the well-trodden routes that DW2 went through have produced several million new systems. Funny how that works.
Besides, let's say that an explorer travels 1,000 ly to reach undiscovered systems. Which is much more than they have to, but hey, maybe they are heading in a popular direction. With today's jump ranges (let's go with 50 ly), that's twenty jumps or less. Hopefully, our example explorer will then go on to explore for far more than just twenty jumps. If they explore, say, a thousand systems, then it hardly matters if they had to jump twenty or forty systems before they found any new ones. Unless they gave up fifty systems in, of course - but if for nothing else, then they'll do it for the 5,000 ly requirement for Palin (and now Chloe, who's totally not copy-pasted from the Professor) anyway.

Also that decline [in exploration] started well before the FSS came out

Except 2017. April to 2018. January saw an increasing trend. Then there was a slower but steady decrease, followed by four months of stagnation, until 2018. October. That was when the FSS was announced and later demoed, and exploration activity saw its largest drop to that date, setting all-time lows in November. (I'm saying "to that date" because the drop from that was smaller than the drop after DW2 was.) If we say that the "FSS came out", and not that it went live, then the decrease started when it did.

However, there is something else notable. This was only true for systems: when we look at bodies scanned per system, and ELWs per system, then neither ever had a downward trend, right until after DW2 reached the core. So even during the times when less systems were added, people still were slowly more and more interested in scanning the contents of said systems. Obviously, when the FSS went live, the bodies scanned per system went through the roof. On the other hand, the ELWs / systems ratio actually peaked in 2018 December, and started decreasing afterwards. That's also an interesting question: when it became much quicker to scan them, why did the ratio go down immediately?
Hm... Perhaps for new players, it's actually more difficult to recognize an ELW on the barcode than it was on the system map? After all, they are right next to the common Rocky Ice Worlds there. I did say in the past that the FSS is good for ELWs, because I meant that for body types in general - which the developers specifically highlighted - but now I wonder if it's only better for WWs and AWs instead. (Speaking of the latter, no questions there: the AW / systems ratio kept increasing until it peaked this March.)

Anyway, this is more than enough describing data. I'll publish them all once I compile a few more things that I want to check - although most of the above is readily available to everyone (without needing to work on the EDSM database dumps, that is), so if you care, you can see for yourself already. Only the parts about ELWs and AWs aren't, for those, you'd need to run your own counts.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

This is the song that never ends,
yes it goes on and on my friend.
Some people started singing it,
not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue singing it forever just because...

Interesting if true!