External View [A definitive discussion]

[BigDuke6ixx]

We speak about elite dangerous as an multiplayer game ..

there have been multiple topics about the external view the devs are using for there newsletter pictures..

a handfull .... cry about immersion breaking..they dont have to use it !
a handfull cry about advantages other players get when they use it..

WE DONT talk about an external view like warthunder or world of tanks with crosshairs.. we talk about outside ship ciea freely rotadeable and zoombable around your ship to make videos and screenshoots

selling ship skins??? lol what for? i cant even see my own ship

theres NO reasons the dev-cam still isnt avarible for the players...

and even less reason why is isnt enabled in solo play where NONE of the points of the cryers makes sense


2nd)there have been topics about an system chatt to at least make it feel like an multiplayer game

again a handfull cryes NO bla bla blup ... NOONE forces them to follow the chatt!
maybe make it 1.99$ for 30 days chat server access or something like that
it would hold the game and server alive

FD says no.

So jog on.

 

[Crab]

Hello Folk!

To add a little developer clarification:

We are looking at external camera views, with the following caveats:

* They are contextualised as camera/drone systems
* They are not designed to be used as alternate flight views
* Their primary function is to allow "beauty shots"
* They may have occasional tertiary game play functions (such as seeing how close you are to something)

No ETA at the moment though.

Hope this helps.

2 years later and? Will be there external view? I want see my ship and of course, you offer lot of skins for real money but how can I look on it?

External view inside dock is solution and in deep space your drone solutions sounds good too.

 

[NeilF]

2 years later and? Will be there external view? I want see my ship and of course, you offer lot of skins for reall money but how can I look on it?

External view inside dock is solution and in deep space your drone solutions sounds good too.

Beta 3 a week Thursday... Cross your fingers! Surely it needs to be tested before gamma!

 

[Deyn]

Lots of people argument: 3rd person view is cheating, is "nonsense" and "not realistic".

I would be very careful, with these "nonsense" and "not realistic" comments, as mostly everything related to eye candy in a space simulation is nonsense and not real, at all.

1. light beam weapons can't be seen! - there is no atmosphere to fracture the light so the only chance to see it, is if it hits your eye!

2. For the same reason the only sounds you'll hear are the ones inside your ships hull! - No explosions, no weapons sounds, no missile whooosh, etc.

3. shadow means "no light(!)" as in total darkness! Any object blocking light other than reflected or artificial light will cast a shadow of total blackness

4. there are no artificial "particles" in space to give you a perceptive reference for speed, if necessary do it like I-war and put them on the pilot HUD...

... and so on, and so forth.

All this is there to immerse you into the game, but yet it is utterly non realistic!

So, who cares, it fits the game and makes it enjoyable.

Currently E: Dangerous uses a good portion of the I-War and I-War: Edge of Chaos approach and until David Braben ressurrected the space sim, these were by far the best, and most sim like, titles giving you something between Star Wars and the moon landing.

Why is it so difficult to accept, that many, many people would be more than happy to simply watch their spacecraft from the outside (I'm not talking about flying in 3rd person view!).

All the fantastic graphics, beautiful ship designs and awesome scenarios for nothing?

Only way today I get close to another ship to have a quick glance at it, is in dogfight.

What would be the problem to limit external views to SOLO play, for example! If you consider that cheating, I bet the AI won't bother.

Or simply make no combat zones where an external view can be activated, or deactivate all controls in external view and so on and so on...

Plenty of solutions, for a tiny problem.

 

[Deyn]

you offer lot of skins for real money but how can I look on it?

A very good point! Exactly why I always "jumped" at the idea of a beautiful skin, only to get frustrated, as I have no way to enjoy them. A total waste of money... so why should I buy one?!

 

[Captain Moray Starboat]

If anything?

I want to 1) Pause the game when the alarm tells me I'm under attack (or I see the beam lasers burning past me)
2) Jump to external view , toggle ship ID's on, and rotate the camera until I see the enemy
3) Lock on to the enemy , jump back into normal cockpit camera, toggle autopilot on until I've got a heading straight for the enemy
4) Hit space and fire! , lasers, and if needed naval, homing or smart missiles at the enemy while making my run towards him/her/it.
5) Break off before we collide, get some distance between us and make a new run.

This is how I played Elite 1 , 2 , 3 , this is how I want to play Elite IV : Dangerous

No external camera is a complete gamebreaker for me, I did kickstart at the earliest opportunity, but this is one thing I need implemented. No camera-control at all ? Means I'll be missing out on the sequel I've been waiting for the longest (and the hardest)
To me Frontier as ,and still is the best game I've ever played

 

[MajorEpeen]

If anything?

I want to 1) Pause the game when the alarm tells me I'm under attack (or I see the beam lasers burning past me)
2) Jump to external view , toggle ship ID's on, and rotate the camera until I see the enemy
3) Lock on to the enemy , jump back into normal cockpit camera, toggle autopilot on until I've got a heading straight for the enemy
4) Hit space and fire! , lasers, and if needed naval, homing or smart missiles at the enemy while making my run towards him/her/it.
5) Break off before we collide, get some distance between us and make a new run.

This is how I played Elite 1 , 2 , 3 , this is how I want to play Elite IV : Dangerous

I would like to have a slave of the empire to play the game for me as I feel it would be too much effort for me to do this myself.

 

[InscrutableMtT]

I would like to have a slave of the empire to play the game for me as I feel it would be too much effort for me to do this myself.

The sarcasm is strong with this one...

 

[Tzukasa]

Keep the view firstperson in the cockpit please devs. It gives a huge advantage in pvp to those using third person view, which by defacto to be competitive will force people to have to use the external 3rd person view weither they want to or not. So PLZ Don't Do It.

 

[NeilF]

Keep the view firstperson in the cockpit please devs. It gives a huge advantage in pvp to those using third person view, which by defacto to be competitive will force people to have to use the external 3rd person view weither they want to or not. So PLZ Don't Do It.

* groans at being 124 pages in and still getting this * - Especially when the first post goes to such lengths...

 

[Deyn]

Keep the view firstperson in the cockpit please devs. It gives a huge advantage in pvp to those using third person view, which by defacto to be competitive will force people to have to use the external 3rd person view weither they want to or not. So PLZ Don't Do It.

Nice to see people still are too lazy to read what others post...

So AGAIN: Nobody wants a "game breaking" 3rd person view!!! What we want is an EXTERNAL camera. The easiest way to implement this, is making it available in SOLO play only! ...or do you really think, the AI will start complaining, that it gives you an "unfair" advantage?

Second best, would be one the other solutions like no control or info in external view combined with a 2-3 second delay to get in or out the external view. The drone approach, special non combat areas, just inside a Hangar (may be a larger one?), not render enemy ships if in external view and so on and so forth.

I don't care how they make it happen, but if I can't even have a look at my beautiful ship, I will never, ever pay even a single cent for a skin, that only others may see.

Apart from all the beauty shots, we miss...

Again, just limit external view to solo play, and everybody should be happy, right? If others agree, make it an option for groups also, so people can make grown up decisions on their own. You don't want external view join a group without it or go for "open play". You want to make beauty shots and enjoy the sights, join a PvE group or go for "solo play"... simple, effectiv, everybody's happy!

 

[NeoRacer]

No it wont, it will be a disadvantage if its not locked to the ship, by the time you switch out and find the target then switch back in, you will have lost precious seconds of maneuvering time and just be killed. If you think 3p is an advantage then so is track IR and so is Oculus DK2 because I dont have to fumble around with the view switch to try and padlock my target. Its soooo easy with trackir or DK2, anyone who doesn't use that is at a huge disadvantage. You can argue that if you want but its a fact. So this whole debate is grossly illogical.

Keep the view firstperson in the cockpit please devs. It gives a huge advantage in pvp to those using third person view, which by defacto to be competitive will force people to have to use the external 3rd person view weither they want to or not. So PLZ Don't Do It.

 

[woodhouse]

It has probably been said before as this thread has at least 124 pages...
But in theme parks you also get an external view: if you pass certain exciting points, you get your photograph taken and you can buy that at the exit.
Why not do external views in Elite the same way? Just put a camera in the war zones and people can make funny faces at it.
No arguments about the effects on game play as the external view is not real time, it's just for looking back.

 

[Zhang]

This horse has been beat to death, dug up, pummeled over once again and then kicked a couple of more times just for good measure. Quit already. Just to recap, for the convenience of all vested parties who didn't take the trouble to read and understand:

Pretty much. The experience is the main issue and the reason we did it. The fact it has implications for multiplayer (those implications being that everything is conveniently fair) is a bonus really.

Hello Folk!

To add a little developer clarification:

We are looking at external camera views, with the following caveats:

* They are contextualised as camera/drone systems
* They are not designed to be used as alternate flight views
* Their primary function is to allow "beauty shots"
* They may have occasional tertiary game play functions (such as seeing how close you are to something)

No ETA at the moment though.

Hope this helps.

 

[Gdank]

Personally I'd love an external view so I can admire my ship from the outside without having to be within outfitting section. I'd be ok if this wasn't allowed in combat.

 

[NeilF]

make it an option for groups also, so people can make grown up decisions on their own. You don't want external view join a group without it or go for "open play". You want to make beauty shots and enjoy the sights, join a PvE group or go for "solo play"... simple, effectiv, everybody's happy!

That is actually a good fall back position. ie: If a nerfed external view cannot be produced for some odd reason, and there are one/two odd debatable uses of it that could be deemed an "advantage", simply decide if you want the feature or not, and only have instances of people with/without it. Would seem an extreme final solution though... so hopefully unnecessary.

 

[DeadlyD]

Honestly, I could care less about seeing my ship while outside the station. I get that it would be nice for the screenshot aspect, but, that hardly seems to justify the time spent coding it into the game when there are so many other things needing to get sorted out.

Now, regarding the guy at the station whose job it is to repair the "wear and tear"... He needs to be let go immediately - ALWAYS misses the front quarter panels.

 

[Captain Moray Starboat]

Nice to see people still are too lazy to read what others post...

So AGAIN: Nobody wants a "game breaking" 3rd person view!!! What we want is an EXTERNAL camera. The easiest way to implement this, is making it available in SOLO play only! ...or do you really think, the AI will start complaining, that it gives you an "unfair" advantage?

!

I can totally live with them limiting external camera to singleplayer / solo-mode only, it's really how I hope to play the game in the first place.
There's been a good discussion highlighting the problems, and the good things about over ..mmh some 134 pages now?
It's a good thing , discussing and truly trying to understand the different viewpoints is how we get the best solutions as well.

For me it's two things that make it a difficult topic, one is what I'm used to , and the hillariously high expectations I have due to Frontier being the best game experience I've had, secondly being I'm incredibly stubborn
when it comes to choice. Fewer choices are (almost) always a really bad thing to me, more choices something I've come to expect, I'm spoiled with so many great games giving you so many options.

So of course I react strongly when I can't even get an outdoors view of my space-ship, all those snazzy colours schemes suddenly feel completely irrelevant
I want to be able to roll the mousewheel and naturally see the camera flow from cockpit view to a good view outside. I know I can't get everything I want, but I will be extremely disappointed, to the point I miss out on the many many
other improvements and additions that has been added to the game.

Elite IV Dangerous stirs a lot of feelings, reason isn't the only thing devs should consider (perhaps ..unfortunatly?)


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/hroacSGmVyc?list=UUQf639L3yEg2U3l63H5mmSg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(See how I prefer the cockpit-view and instruments while doing the actual fighting?)

Either way I'm -probably- going to want to try fight the way I've always done in the Elite series, get distance, autopilot in and do runs

 

[skyline385]

Any update on the proposed external Camera when out of combat?

I remember reading a few months back that they were thinking of an external camera which can be used when travelling and when not locked in combat. And i can't help but feel that it would be absolutely amazing to have in-game. The Ships are already modeled in high detail from the outside so using a 3rd person Camera shouldn't be difficult except for the Supercruise and Hyperjump animations. It would also give people more incentive to buy ship skins as right now you can't even properly see the glorious skin you bought for your ship. So yea, any news on that?

 

[Zhang]

I remember reading a few months back that they were thinking of an external camera which can be used when travelling and when not locked in combat. And i can't help but feel that it would be absolutely amazing to have in-game. The Ships are already modeled in high detail from the outside so using a 3rd person Camera shouldn't be difficult except for the Supercruise and Hyperjump animations. It would also give people more incentive to buy ship skins as right now you can't even properly see the glorious skin you bought for your ship. So yea, any news on that?

Not on the list of priorities. But it will be in game sooner or later. Dead horse.