Features that Planet Zoo 2 DEFINITELY needs?

Well of course. That's why it's sandbox
you say of course like there isnt multiple pages of us arguing this point.

I agree with the idea of progression its hurts immersion so much that you can open a zoo and go straight to lions and pandas. I often create my own systems for ranking animals based on different care requirements to have at least some semblance of progression within the zoo.
 
you say of course like there isnt multiple pages of us arguing this point.

I agree with the idea of progression its hurts immersion so much that you can open a zoo and go straight to lions and pandas. I often create my own systems for ranking animals based on different care requirements to have at least some semblance of progression within the zoo.
I'd def have ranking systems but I'd also have consortiums, conservation groups, and zoo breeding groups you make alliances with to get more animals

Like I know within the AZA, there are several TAG's (Taxon Advisory Groups) so maybe that can be a thing in the game.


Also, OPTIMIZATION PLEASE

The amount of time it takes to load even a regular zoo map from the workshop is utter bananas
 
The game is successful as it is. It's Frontier's most successful game on the market. It's achieving that without ruining itself for a handful of players who think they deserve a special treat for choosing to challenge themselves. Changing that aspect would not be an improvement by any measure; it would actively hurt the brand, and defeat the purpose. The game is a sandbox zoo builder first and foremost, everything else is extra.

See above. The small handful of players who don't like the game because it's easy and simple are playing the wrong game. It's supposed to be easy and simple (and even then, it actually isn't; it's challenging to be good at this game in itself. The reward for that challenge is making beautiful zoos).

This whole argument has made me think about where my priorities lie, here.

I agree with the argument that we shouldn't have items that can only be unlocked by playing other game modes. Sandbox players should have full access to every creative tool in the game. That's the whole point of sandbox, right?

But saying "The game is successful as it is" as an argument to not reanalyze what the game should be, is a bit... capitalistic? Rather than the thought process of a passionate developer. And I think we're kinda dismissing the games that Planet Coaster and Planet Zoo are spiritual successors of:

When I was a kid, all I wanted to do was play the freeform modes in Zoo Tycoon 1 and 2. (Roller Coaster Tycoon not having a freeform mode was pretty annoying to me!) But funny enough, as an adult, I read that the creator of RCT refused to include freeform, because he argued that's not what the game was for. Out of curiosity I went back and played the game as intended.

I found beating the scenarios in RCT1 made for some very satisfying, relaxing, and rather "zen" gameplay. Still a chill-out game, but while working your brain enough to keep you engaged.

Then I tried the career mode in Zoo Tycoon 1, which was also pretty good at that.

Zoo Tycoon 2 had some problems with this mode that the others didn't, but also some improvements. I found the "star rating" method of unlocking new things to be a more satisfying mode of progression than the "research" method of the first Zoo Tycoon game. (And Planet Zoo!) Having a higher-star zoo would not only unlock items but also more animals, as if being a more respected zoo made institutions trust you with certain species. I definitely prefer this mode to the very repetitive "research" modes of ZT and PZ. (Having to re-research different architecture styles is especially ridiculous. Maybe just make them cost more money?)

So, on one hand, I HIGHLY respect Planet Zoo for focusing more on creativity. Just one look at the Zoo Tycoon 2 modding community, which existed right up to Planet Zoo's announcement, shows you how much desire there was for another zoo game that focused on creative freedom. And Frontier prioritized that, and absolutely delivered.

BUT... I don't think it's entirely fair to downplay career/scenario mode to the extent some players are. I know you said "challenge mode is the broccoli. Some people like it, sure." But I think someone else mentioned that the career scenarios we got weren't just "the broccoli" ....they were a plate of still-half-frozen broccoli that hadn't been cooked right. And I feel that.

I liked some of it, but mostly the ones that had you fixing a zoo that was a mess. The ones that had an interesting layout, and let you reorganize some of it to make it better. The ones that made you feel like your creativity and good sense were saving a zoo from whoever came before. And using the landscape is something Planet Zoo learned from ZT1 and RCT1, a vast improvement over ZT2.

But it still could be better. And I agree with those who've stated the management and challenge aspect of the Planet games deserves to be way better than it is.
 
Man, I was JUST thinking of posting something like this. You guys have already read my mind on some of these. And this is for all future "Planet" games, not just PZ2.
The biggest things for me are:


How paths work.

We all know it's insane how much you have to fight with the pathing system sometimes. I'm sure I don't have to go into detail, because both the users and developers just know.

I understand it must have been hard figuring out a system that controls were the guests can go, that doesn't clash with where the animals can go, or freedom of placing construction pieces, etc. So they have my understanding. But...

There's gotta be a better way, man.


How the construction pieces, rocks, paths (ect?) work.

So like I said, I appreciate what they have going, as of this game.

But in retrospect

for the love of god

why can't we just select a piece, like the simple 4x4m wall, or Large Rock 2 or whatever, and then change it's texture to one of the other themes or biomes?

I'm sure the developers were kicking themselves when they realized this. Like, having a listing of the exact same rock models, but then in different textures for each biome, just clutters the UI. Same with the different construction themes that have the exact same pieces. You could just have a list of pieces and then select to change their themes. I know there's some pieces that are unique to certain themes (like the castle tops in the twilight theme) but that's ok if those ones only have one theme option.

Same with the paths. Could you imaging being able to highlight a section of path, then just change it to another path-type, instead of deleting and rebuilding it all? Same with not having to delete and rebuild whole sections of buildings or rockwork if you realize you want a different texture or colour. And it's a shame the trend of almost everything being flexicolour wasn't here from the start. Everything should be flexicolour.


!!!! edit, because I forgot construction piece grouping. Not being able to group a bunch of pieces, because it turns out more than one of those pieces is a "construction" piece, is so frustrating. There should probably be a rework of how "groups" work in the next game. Also a safeguard against accidentally deleting a bunch of stuff, because you didn't realize it was grouped with something else!


Make it easier to select the piece you want when there's a bunch of pieces near each other.

That's it, that's the tweet. There's got to be a better way. This one's probably the biggest bane of all us builders.


Bigger and better terrain tools

Same.


Better-looking guests

PLEASE. I understand why they wanted to just import the guests from Planet Coaster. But for any future Planet games, they've got to redesign them. They don't have to be as realistic as the animals (in fact, too-realistic humans can be very uncanny and creepy in a game like this) but at least more realistic than the current ones. And less distracting.


Better transport vehicles

The giant space gondola isn't real, it can't hurt you


How concession stands work

Others have mentioned already that importing the concession stands from Planet Coaster just.... didn't really work for a zoo game. And some of it was already weird in Planet Coaster.

Theme parks will have the occasional stand that's just for popcorn, or giant roasted turkey legs, or deep fried oreos or whatever. But for a zoo that's much rarer. Food isn't as much of a draw. And a zoo needing concessions EVERYWHERE to satisfy guests makes no sense.

And it's just odd not to have options like "simple grill concession" (sells burgers, fries, and drinks) or "small refreshment stand" (just sells drinks and frozen deserts.) Only having individual foods/drinks and then one big "restaurant" option seems to be a holdover from older games. And it's strange that Frontier copied this method just because "that's the way management games always did it in the past." We need to break this curse.


How time (and guest/animal need depletion) works

I think you can't really separate these. There's an option that lets us slow down animal aging, which helps. But I think we need more control across the board. How fast things dilapidate and break down is also a big factor. You never want a game like this to feel TOO rushed and frantic, even if you're playing a challenge mode. And I know they had less to balance, but Zoo Tycoon 1 and 2 better captured the speed of a zoo progressing, and matched challenges to this instead of actual real time.


User control over what the terrain of your park and the terrain around it looks like

I think this might just manifest as more interesting options for park maps. It's cool to have height maps. But just wanting a city in the background, or one that flows seamlessly into your map, would be great for immersion. PZ is at least much better at this than Zoo Tycoon 2 was, and it seems to have taken notes from Zoo Tycoon 1 and Roller Coaster Tycoon 1. But it could be better!


A setting for how active animals are

Being able, at least in sandbox, to scale back how active animals are-- lowest being "realistic" (a lot of sleeping, foraging, and grazing) and the highest option being for kids who want their animals to be constantly entertaining them. Our zoos would look so much better without the animals running around like aimless robots. I think if you implemented this, players would wonder how we ever lived without it. Could also be used in other Planet titles to control how guests function.


Optimization and Progression

Others have already elaborated on this, and I just rambled about progress in that other post. But yeah, I agree.
 
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Man, I was JUST thinking of posting something like this. You guys have already read my mind on some of these. And this is for all future "Planet" games, not just PZ2.
The biggest things for me are:


How paths work.

We all know it's insane how much you have to fight with the pathing system sometimes. I'm sure I don't have to go into detail, because both the users and developers just know.

I understand it must have been hard figuring out a system that controls were the guests can go, that doesn't clash with where the animals can go, or freedom of placing construction pieces, etc. So they have my understanding. But...

There's gotta be a better way, man.


How the construction pieces, rocks, paths (ect?) work.

So like I said, I appreciate what they have going, as of this game.

But in retrospect

for the love of god

why can't we just select a piece, like the simple 4x4m wall, or Large Rock 2 or whatever, and then change it's texture to one of the other themes or biomes?

I'm sure the developers were kicking themselves when they realized this. Like, having a listing of the exact same rock models, but then in different textures for each biome, just clutters the UI. Same with the different construction themes that have the exact same pieces. You could just have a list of pieces and then select to change their themes. I know there's some pieces that are unique to certain themes (like the castle tops in the twilight theme) but that's ok if those ones only have one theme option.

Same with the paths. Could you imaging being able to highlight a section of path, then just change it to another path-type, instead of deleting and rebuilding it all? Same with not having to delete and rebuild whole sections of buildings or rockwork if you realize you want a different texture or colour. And it's a shame the trend of almost everything being flexicolour wasn't here from the start. Everything should be flexicolour.


!!!! edit, because I forgot construction piece grouping. Not being able to group a bunch of pieces, because it turns out more than one of those pieces is a "construction" piece, is so frustrating. There should probably be a rework of how "groups" work in the next game. Also a safeguard against accidentally deleting a bunch of stuff, because you didn't realize it was grouped with something else!


Make it easier to select the piece you want when there's a bunch of pieces near each other.

That's it, that's the tweet. There's got to be a better way. This one's probbaly the biggest bane of all us builders.


Bigger and better terrain tools

Same.


Better-looking guests

PLEASE. I understand why they wanted to just import the guests from Planet Coaster. But for any future Planet games, they've got to redesign them. They don't have to be as realistic as the animals (in fact, too-realistic humans can be very uncanny and creepy in a game like this) but at least more realistic than the current ones. And less distracting.


Better transport vehicles

The giant space gondola isn't real, it can't hurt you


How concession stands work

Others have mentioned already that importing the concession stands from Planet Coaster just.... didn't really work for a zoo game. And some of it was already weird in Planet Coaster.

Theme parks will have the occasional stand that's just for popcorn, or giant roasted turkey legs, or deep fried oreos or whatever. But for a zoo that's much rarer. Food isn't as much of a draw. And a zoo needing concessions EVERYWHERE to satisfy guests makes no sense.

And it's just odd not to have options like "simple grill concession" (sells burgers, fries, and drinks) or "small refreshment stand" (just sells drinks and frozen deserts.) Only having individual foods/drinks and then one big "restaurant" option seems to be a holdover from older games. And it's strange that Frontier copied this method just because "that's the way management games always did it in the past." We need to break this curse.


How time (and guest/animal need depletion) works

I think you can't really separate these. There's an option that lets us slow down animal aging, which helps. But I think we need more control across the board. How fast things dilapidate and break down is also a big factor. You never want a game like this to feel TOO rushed and frantic, even if you're playing a challenge mode. And I know they had less to balance, but Zoo Tycoon 1 and 2 better captured the speed of a zoo progressing, and matched challenges to this instead of actual real time.


User control over what the terrain of your park and the terrain around it looks like

I think this might just manifest as more interesting options for park maps. It's cool to have height maps. But just wanting a city in the background, or one that flows seamlessly into your map, would be great for immersion. PZ is at least much better at this than Zoo Tycoon 2 was, and it seems to have taken notes from Zoo Tycoon 1 and Roller Coaster Tycoon 1. But it could be better!


A setting for how active animals are

Being able, at least in sandbox, to scale back how active animals are-- lowest being "realistic" (a lot of sleeping, foraging, and grazing) and the highest option being for kids who want their animals to be constantly entertaining them. Our zoos would look so much better without the animals running around like aimless robots. I think if you implemented this, players would wonder how we ever lived without it. Could also be used in other Planet titles to control how guests function.


Optimization and Progression

Others have already elaborated on this, and I just rambled about progress in that other post. But yeah, I agree.
You forgot a Point about better Guest Distribution instead of having to deal with those disgusting Human Blobs which include hundreds of People. It's just sickening to see
 
You forgot a Point about better Guest Distribution instead of having to deal with those disgusting Human Blobs which include hundreds of People. It's just sickening to see
Great point. I assume this would be fixed by making each guest a true individual, even when part of a group. Kids can go off and play on playgrounds while the adults sit on a bench. Someone can get the others food while they're off looking at something. People can split up a bit and regroup. Yet another thing that requires better optimization, but would be super worth it for any Planet game.
 
I posted it in the suggestions section but I’ll put it here: I want a guest slider for the guest models. That way my computer doesn’t have to run with well over a thousand individuals walking through my zoo. It’s also possible doing this people wouldn’t have to lose money by having less guests.
 
This whole argument has made me think about where my priorities lie, here.

I agree with the argument that we shouldn't have items that can only be unlocked by playing other game modes. Sandbox players should have full access to every creative tool in the game. That's the whole point of sandbox, right?

But saying "The game is successful as it is" as an argument to not reanalyze what the game should be, is a bit... capitalistic? Rather than the thought process of a passionate developer. And I think we're kinda dismissing the games that Planet Coaster and Planet Zoo are spiritual successors of:

When I was a kid, all I wanted to do was play the freeform modes in Zoo Tycoon 1 and 2. (Roller Coaster Tycoon not having a freeform mode was pretty annoying to me!) But funny enough, as an adult, I read that the creator of RCT refused to include freeform, because he argued that's not what the game was for. Out of curiosity I went back and played the game as intended.

I found beating the scenarios in RCT1 made for some very satisfying, relaxing, and rather "zen" gameplay. Still a chill-out game, but while working your brain enough to keep you engaged.

Then I tried the career mode in Zoo Tycoon 1, which was also pretty good at that.

Zoo Tycoon 2 had some problems with this mode that the others didn't, but also some improvements. I found the "star rating" method of unlocking new things to be a more satisfying mode of progression than the "research" method of the first Zoo Tycoon game. (And Planet Zoo!) Having a higher-star zoo would not only unlock items but also more animals, as if being a more respected zoo made institutions trust you with certain species. I definitely prefer this mode to the very repetitive "research" modes of ZT and PZ. (Having to re-research different architecture styles is especially ridiculous. Maybe just make them cost more money?)

So, on one hand, I HIGHLY respect Planet Zoo for focusing more on creativity. Just one look at the Zoo Tycoon 2 modding community, which existed right up to Planet Zoo's announcement, shows you how much desire there was for another zoo game that focused on creative freedom. And Frontier prioritized that, and absolutely delivered.

BUT... I don't think it's entirely fair to downplay career/scenario mode to the extent some players are. I know you said "challenge mode is the broccoli. Some people like it, sure." But I think someone else mentioned that the career scenarios we got weren't just "the broccoli" ....they were a plate of still-half-frozen broccoli that hadn't been cooked right. And I feel that.

I liked some of it, but mostly the ones that had you fixing a zoo that was a mess. The ones that had an interesting layout, and let you reorganize some of it to make it better. The ones that made you feel like your creativity and good sense were saving a zoo from whoever came before. And using the landscape is something Planet Zoo learned from ZT1 and RCT1, a vast improvement over ZT2.

But it still could be better. And I agree with those who've stated the management and challenge aspect of the Planet games deserves to be way better than it is.
I agree it is useless to say that the game is good as is and shouldnt be changed is redundant. The game should offer more than just a good sandbox mode because they sandbox mode we have is close to perfect but anyone looking for anything more challenge based has no place in planet zoo they game should offer more to encourage a new audience of players without affecting the known success of sandbox players. Planet zoos challenges mode is so bad that when I actually want to build a zoo and feel a sense of progression and challenge I go back to zoo tycoon 2. A player shouldnt have to go to another game to find what they are looking for that is just a missed opportunity.

I do agree however that planet zoo is a sandbox game first and foremost and nothing should be done that negatively impacts those players.
 
I don't know if it has been said before but we need all the textures from the different biomes as a possibility for every single park we build, at least in sandbox mode. It may not look realistic at the whole park level but my enclosures would look really better. I want to be able to recreate the African savannah with the tall yellow grass and the Australian desert with red sand in the same park (for example).
 
Maybe By Playing PZ2's Campaign You Can Unlock New Barrier Types For Example:
  • Oceanian Campaign - A New Thatched Fence
  • African Campaign - A New Wooden Pole Fence
  • European Campaign - A New Wrought Iron Fence With A Brick Base
  • Asian Campaign - A New Ornate Fence
  • South American Campaign - A New Temple Fence
  • North American Campaign - A New White Picket Fence
The Individual Pieces Would Be Available In Sandbox From The Start, You Just Unlock These To Make It Easier/Quicker.
 
1) all existing roster.
2) aviary
3) aquarium
4) exhibit with 10 different sizes.
5) roads with service cars or real cars for safari.
6) hotel
7) easier path
8) simple rides (marry go around, priate ship, simple coaster, coin rides)
9) animal shows (educational)
10) more business management.
Oh that reminds me, I definitely want realistic road entrances to a zoo.
Guests just appearing in a building feels ridiculous- do immersive entrances like a road and a parking lot, or boats or whatever- just not spawning of thin air inside one building!
And also hopefully for the rides, the option to hide the path they go on, many think it looks bad.

Also more city-like backgrounds in maps!
 
Guests just appearing in a building feels ridiculous- do immersive entrances like a road and a parking lot, or boats or whatever- just not spawning of thin air inside one building!
You can already do that though, even though you need to build it yourself.
But they've finally changed it so you can remove Stuff outside of the buildable Area. You already need a new Spawner and Entrance though to be able to fully remove the original Entrance
 
You can already do that though, even though you need to build it yourself.
But they've finally changed it so you can remove Stuff outside of the buildable Area. You already need a new Spawner and Entrance though to be able to fully remove the original Entrance
Not exactly, there's no road leading out of the map and no river for the boat to come in from, and you need the guest spawners one way or another so you will have to hide those in some building or watch guests spawn in and out of mid air
 
Not exactly, there's no road leading out of the map and no river for the boat to come in from, and you need the guest spawners one way or another so you will have to hide those in some building or watch guests spawn in and out of mid air
The Thing with no Road or River outside the Map is of course disappointing. You could build a Tunnel though from which the Road emerges
 
The flight mechanic for all birds species that are flight is a MUST for Planet Zoo 2. Free flight aviaries and large flight cages are as integral a part in any zoo as are the large hoofstock and charismatic carnivores. Without aviaries and flying birds, a zoo feels incomplete.

With the birds that can fly that are currently in the game - greater flamingo, mute swan, and red crowned crane - there needs to be a toggle option or some sort of fail-safe mode for birds that are out in open-air exhibits. In real life, zoos pinion the wings of your stereotypical large, exhibit birds - bustards (occasionally), cranes, flamingos, ground-hornbills (occasionally), large herons (i.e. the goliath heron), ibises (zoos used to keep African sacred ibises in open exhibits), Old World vultures, pelicans, seriemas (rarely), storks, and waterfowl (ducks, geese, and swans). This can be shown in the game as one wing having all its flight feathered pulled or one wing being shorter than the other.

With aviaries, there should be an option to include a handful of habitat animals in walk-through aviaries like capybaras, duikers, dik-diks, and sloths.



Choosing Subspecies:
I mentioned this in another post I did but there should be an option on choosing a subspecies, if said animal has an option for a subspecies. I know this is bordering on the pedantic but it would be true to form and accuracy. Some examples of this with the current base game animals are:

Common ostrich: There are three living species of common ostrich; the one represented in zoos the most is the South African (Struthio camelus australis) and is the base game subspecies featured in the game currently. In Europe, they tend to focus on the North African subspecies (S. c. camelus) because it is the most endangered subspecies, being listed as "Critically Endangered". When you choose the common ostrich, the South African subspecies can remain the base ostrich but you can have the option of choosing the North African subspecies, for which you'll get more conservation credits for raising and releasing them or choose the Masai (S. c. massaicus) for more credit than the South African but less credit than the North African.

Plains zebra: Like the common ostrich, the plains zebra does have six subspecies but only two are well represented in zoos: the Grant's (Equus quagga boehmi), which is the base game subspecies and the smallest subspecies, and the Burchell's or Damaraland (Equus quagga burchellii).



Update on the Taxonomy of Current Species:
Science has recently discovered that giraffes aren't one species but have four distinct species: the northern (Giraffa camelopardalis), Masai (G. tippelskirchi), reticulated (G. reticulata), and southern (G. giraffa). The bongo currently in the game should be the eastern bongo (Tragelaphus eurycerus isaaci) since that is the subspecies that's well represented in zoos (it's "Critically Endangered" and is in intense need for conservation efforts).



I'm also all for the better time scale, Animal Market UI improvements, better career and unlocks, better modular exhibits, a foliage brush (like in the Jurassic World Evolution games), and transferrable blueprints.

With the eggs mechanic I do agree with but there will need to be additional steps, like when the eggs are being laid, the zookeeper needs to be called to collect the eggs and to incubate them. There should be an option once the bird has matured enough to have the option of either returning it to the flight, put it in Animal Storage, to sell it, or release it back into the wild.
 
The flight mechanic for all birds species that are flight is a MUST for Planet Zoo 2. Free flight aviaries and large flight cages are as integral a part in any zoo as are the large hoofstock and charismatic carnivores. Without aviaries and flying birds, a zoo feels incomplete.

With the birds that can fly that are currently in the game - greater flamingo, mute swan, and red crowned crane - there needs to be a toggle option or some sort of fail-safe mode for birds that are out in open-air exhibits. In real life, zoos pinion the wings of your stereotypical large, exhibit birds - bustards (occasionally), cranes, flamingos, ground-hornbills (occasionally), large herons (i.e. the goliath heron), ibises (zoos used to keep African sacred ibises in open exhibits), Old World vultures, pelicans, seriemas (rarely), storks, and waterfowl (ducks, geese, and swans). This can be shown in the game as one wing having all its flight feathered pulled or one wing being shorter than the other.

With aviaries, there should be an option to include a handful of habitat animals in walk-through aviaries like capybaras, duikers, dik-diks, and sloths.



Choosing Subspecies:
I mentioned this in another post I did but there should be an option on choosing a subspecies, if said animal has an option for a subspecies. I know this is bordering on the pedantic but it would be true to form and accuracy. Some examples of this with the current base game animals are:

Common ostrich: There are three living species of common ostrich; the one represented in zoos the most is the South African (Struthio camelus australis) and is the base game subspecies featured in the game currently. In Europe, they tend to focus on the North African subspecies (S. c. camelus) because it is the most endangered subspecies, being listed as "Critically Endangered". When you choose the common ostrich, the South African subspecies can remain the base ostrich but you can have the option of choosing the North African subspecies, for which you'll get more conservation credits for raising and releasing them or choose the Masai (S. c. massaicus) for more credit than the South African but less credit than the North African.

Plains zebra: Like the common ostrich, the plains zebra does have six subspecies but only two are well represented in zoos: the Grant's (Equus quagga boehmi), which is the base game subspecies and the smallest subspecies, and the Burchell's or Damaraland (Equus quagga burchellii).



Update on the Taxonomy of Current Species:
Science has recently discovered that giraffes aren't one species but have four distinct species: the northern (Giraffa camelopardalis), Masai (G. tippelskirchi), reticulated (G. reticulata), and southern (G. giraffa). The bongo currently in the game should be the eastern bongo (Tragelaphus eurycerus isaaci) since that is the subspecies that's well represented in zoos (it's "Critically Endangered" and is in intense need for conservation efforts).



I'm also all for the better time scale, Animal Market UI improvements, better career and unlocks, better modular exhibits, a foliage brush (like in the Jurassic World Evolution games), and transferrable blueprints.

With the eggs mechanic I do agree with but there will need to be additional steps, like when the eggs are being laid, the zookeeper needs to be called to collect the eggs and to incubate them. There should be an option once the bird has matured enough to have the option of either returning it to the flight, put it in Animal Storage, to sell it, or release it back into the wild.
Yes to all of those.
Regarding the Ostrich, it would also be nice to have the Somali Ostrich as a alternative Species.

Eggs should also be able to incubate naturally, but it could happen that Animals might just not sit on them, or won't return to them if they are too stressed.
Artificial Incubation should also increase the Success Rate
 
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