Grinding isn't the player's fault

I tried to replicate this kind of gameplay and also add the faster super cruising with gravity braking to make stuff more engaging. The game did feel better and not as such a waste of time, however, to take advantage of things like these you have to have a multipurpose ship with just about everything intalled:

- Wake scanner
- Cargo rack
- Discovery scanner
- Surface scanner
- Limpet controller
- Weapons
- Pretty good FSD (has to be engineered)
- Fuel scoop
- SRV
- Shield Generator

So, I guess you can kind of make the game more interesting by using a multipurpose ship and doing all of these things, probably why the Cobra / Python / Anaconda are so popular.

You don't need all that stuff,

fuel scoop
cargo rack
disco/surface scanner
limpet controller
good fsd

Are all optional. I'm usually in an FDL just because it's my favorite. Even a good FSD is just above 20 ly.

There are a few drawbacks though:

- People deny it, but the game gives you goals.
- Some actions need work to make them more interesting

Nobody would refuse an improvement, the goals can be ignored or treated as long term though.

*** Goals ***
For example:
- Unlocking an engineer:
You think, hey I would like to have a better FSD. Let's unlock the engineer to improve the FSD. Then, you find out that you have to do many/many/MANY repetitions of something to unlock the engineer.

For Palin you need distance travelled, so go on an exploration trip (to see if you like exploration) and actually explore so unlocking Palin becomes a secondary thing. Trade for an engineer I do by the armed transport method where the stuff I'm carrying is just a pirate magnet for the tanky ship I'm in, moving the stuff is secondary to bounty hunting.

The engineers force you to do a lot of the things the game offers, like a single player campaign. By doing them you find what you like and don't like.

** many players want to accomplish something, it is just human nature. You set a goal and want to do it, but the bars are set way too high and if you focus on it (which a lot of people will do...) you are in for quite the beat down.
- Getting some weapon from Powerplay
Same thing, you have to repeat some stuff too many times

There is a shortcut where you can pledge then ignore it, do a quick merit gathering spree in the third week and unlock the stuff without actually doing much PP. There are guides around the forum (that's not my thing though).

- Guardian weapon:
Still the same repetition

That can get samey, not anywhere near as badly since the rebalance but I enjoy it. I've been playing since 2014 and it's a nice break from the bubble.

- Getting some "material"
This can be for engineering or anything. At some point, you have to get some material. (it is never something you have lots of, because, it has to be some incredibly rare thing)
This gameplay tends to be pretty boring and time consuming. Also, trading is absolute ripoff. Same grade material is not 1-1, it is like 3/6/16/36/ - 1. You are usually trying to get the rarest material.

I'll happily trade at a massive loss using anything I have maxed out the storage for, if I have max storage it's plentiful and easy to replace and I have no use for it. Just in case I keep 30-40 back which is still enough for a lot of engineering if that changes. Things like phase alloys/compound shielding/shield emitters anything the usual enemies drop frequently.

If you have any mats on ignore you are missing the opportunity to dump them for something rare no matter the exchange.

I keep a list of rare ones which I watch out for as mission rewards, you should also note which ship and why you need it as I'm currently looking at mine wondering what I need half of it for.

- Getting a ship you like
This is just a no brainer, you like some ship and you want to have it. Well, grind some of them money or wait a LONG time to get it. With the gameplay above, while entertaining I made about 1 mil in 45-50 minutes... So yeah, it will take you a while.
In addition to this, the modules for the ship you want will probably cost you close to as much as the ship itself. So get ready for LONG play time or grinding money.

*** Actions that need improvement ***
- Mining
Tried mining and it just got too stale / boring and reward for doing it is crap. "Experts" will say, oh you can make a ton of money doing mining, but too much RNG and gameplay is too dull.
- Surface mining
This is probably more RNG's fault, the gameplay is decent. But stuff is soooo rare that you'll spend hours finding stuff. So, decent gameplay but RNG needs to be WAY better.
- Super cruise in long distances
While locations are close you can kind of improve gameplay by avoiding gravity wells and doing gravity braking. Locations longer to the star do become fairly tedious and annoying.
- Making specialized ships more relevant
After doing the gameplay above which improves gameplay within the game, you are pushed to use of multi-role ships. Basically, if you don't have a multipurpose ship you are going to have a bad time playing the game (unless it is combat and you are close to HAZ res).
This makes a ton of other stuff harder, since you tend to use the Taxi ship to move around and now it means that you need to put more "stuff" into your taxi ship to have a decent time. Or go to the place, and then wait the stupid REAL TIME at the other location for your multipurpose ship to get there.
- Waiting for ships
Don't know who came up with this one, but not being able to instantly use your other ship is absolutely bad (NOTHING is gained by adding wait time here). Whoever came up with this is a moron.
- Traders
Just add PvP trading. The traders in the game are such a ripoff, it is horrible. You can't store cargo anywhere you, so you never have stuff to really trade much and you get destroyed in the trades. You could also add station cargo storage so there is an incentive to pick up more things but not have to get rid of them right away.
- Rewards
Not sure why people complain about too much rewards here, you need a ton of money to A rate most ships. Modules costs as much as the ships themselves and you need a ton of money. This is why people tend to just stick to lower/less expensive rebuy cost ships like the cobra/sidey for missions and risky stuff. I would prefer to take a FGS for risky skimmer mission, instead of a sidey... Makes all the big ships irrelevant, only the Conda for Taxi purposes.

If you had more money, you could get many ships and have different varieties of them. Like a Conda Taxi / Conda fighter / Conda Trader and other stuff. This does not affect the game in a bad way at all...
But as it stands, you'll be lucky to have a good fitted Conda/vette/etc. Unless, you just live in the game.

I'm sure I could come up with some more stuff but too tired. And yes, the game makes you grind in many cases. You have the option to avoid it which means you will never get something in the game.

Yeah money wise it's not as lucrative, it is however more fun. There's no point being space rich if you are sick of space.

Have rep for trying the other guys approach, people should do that more. I've tried the grind for military rank and I genuinely can't stand it. Luckily you can now select rep as a mission reward so it's not really a thing anymore.
 
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A good way to make grinding interesting in any game is to tie it to a narrative progression. Randomly leaving empty shells for players to pick as they progress is depressing and that's how people end up quitting because they don't feel empowered by the choices they make.

You could easily fix grinding by introduced chain event missions. Complete more missions -> more rewards -> less grind. Problem is Fdev doesn't value players time spent in-game acquiring the upgrades they want. They think fun is acquired by doing the same repetitive mundane tasks and clicking refresh on your mission board.
 
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A good way to make grinding interesting in any game is to tie it to a narrative progression. Randomly leaving empty shells for players to pick as they progress is depressing and that's how people end up quitting because they don't feel empowered by the choices they make.

You could easily fix grinding by introduced chain event missions. Complete more missions -> more rewards -> less grind. Problem is Fdev doesn't value players time spent in-game acquiring the upgrades they want. They think fun is acquired by doing the same repetitive mundane tasks and clicking refresh on your mission board.

I'd gladly do prospecting with SRV if find materials meant I had to equip mining gear, go find ore veins, do a minigame of drilling and such and actually get more than 1 piece of arsenic or whatever.

The current prospecting where we shoot a rock with machineguns, then run over the little rock babies that pop out lawnmower style must have been design by some rock-hating anti-geologist.

It's boring as hell, makes no sense, and takes forever to even get a moderate amount of basic materials.

Terrible, grindy system.
 
I'd gladly do prospecting with SRV if find materials meant I had to equip mining gear, go find ore veins, do a minigame of drilling and such and actually get more than 1 piece of arsenic or whatever.

The current prospecting where we shoot a rock with machineguns, then run over the little rock babies that pop out lawnmower style must have been design by some rock-hating anti-geologist.

It's boring as hell, makes no sense, and takes forever to even get a moderate amount of basic materials.

Terrible, grindy system.

Yet, that was what I did a lot in my brief honeymoon with Horizons -just because the SRV is a gem of gameplay, design of the little critter with the planetary surroundings just comes together well. Painfully underused. Instead we got this cobbled together mess of convoluted engineering. What a waste of a good gameplay element.
 
You obviously didn't understand his question.

Being able to select rep as the reward doesn't actually negate the need to do the act. Your post seemed to miss that.

You will "grind" the mission board for it, though the specifics might change and timing accordingly.
 
Ah, so it was both his question and my answer you failed to understand. Never mind eh.

You have 2 options with this one, either your response was specific to the question of doing boom time deliveries and thus irrelevant since selecting rep as a reward doesn't negate that, or your response was to mission grinding in general, and therefore relevant, but still doesn't negate the need to grind. Either way my statements apply.
 
You have 2 options with this one, either your response was specific to the question of doing boom time deliveries and thus irrelevant since selecting rep as a reward doesn't negate that, or your response was to mission grinding in general, and therefore relevant, but still doesn't negate the need to grind. Either way my statements apply.

I'm not interested in having an argument with you about something nobody said.
 
I'm not interested in having an argument with you about something nobody said.

So you didn't say:

Yes, you can select rep as the mission reward for anything you like for quite some time now.

Because the board says you said that.

And just for reference it was in response to this:
So if I want to unlock the Cutter do I have an option to not grind same courier and boom time delivery missions ad nauseam?

An inquiry about the need to grind missions, specifically boom time deliveries, for rank.
 
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