Make supercruise like the oceans during WWII

[Mengy]

Old Ducks idea is a good one, I like it a lot honestly. It certainly would add a nice strategic flavor to one of the most boring aspects of the game: supercruise.

We'll never see anything like this in Elite Dangerous, but man I wish we would.

 

[Backelaer]

Some damn fine and interesting ideas. It might be very difficult to implement in a balanced way though.
It might make it too difficult to interdict anyone, or worse, hardly ever even see anyone. Space is already way too big. (Something we actually can't blame FD for )
Still, if done right, it would make supercruise great again. You know what, I'm gonna go and get those baseballcaps made!

 

[SciTrekker]

Please no. this is over 1,200 years into a fictional future...why the heck would we revert to ways of technology that's already considered beyond antiquated in real life of today?

Because it could be fun in a video game?

 

[Mengy]

Elite Dangerous Waters

Dangerous Waters is a fantastic game! I prefer the newer Cold Waters though. Both contain gameplay similar to what Old Duck is suggesting of course.

 

[Troopi]

I approve, and applaud.

 

[Jason Clearbrook]

I like!

Have not read the whole thread yet, but well thought out, at least IMHO...

;'{P~~~

 

[TheSisko]

Great idea, Old Ducky.

In sci-fi TV shows, you have ships hiding in blind spots, above magnetic poles (which confused the sensors in one TNG episode), within solar coronas, behind the back-side of planets. I'd love to see more 'hide-and-seek' gameplay.

 

[Red Anders]

A lot of the "realism" crowd like to point at that whole "there's no stealth possible in space" thing from that one hard-sci-fi blog, which accurately points out that yes, your engines can be detected, and once detected, your course can be predicted even if line of sight is broken.

The problem is, that blog covers entirely extremely hard sci-fi with no magical FTL drives. As soon as you throw FTL of any kind into the mix, all the waffling you could ever come out with about stealth and sensors and detection goes completely out of the window and we're into handwavium time because by the time the light from whatever object you're looking at reaches you, it's not there any more. It'd be like trying to detect a supersonic jet using sonar.

To be honest, I wish the 'realism crowd' would just sod off and play a game which was created especially for them.

18 minute video showing powering up your ship. Seems perfect for the people who want to spend their time playing with their knobs. And dials and switches.

 

[sgurr]

So here's my line of thinking this morning that lead me to the simple suggestion to follow. I'm running cargo for the CG in a T9. I think to myself, "Why do gankers need to destroy my ship, why not just ask me to drop my cargo like NPCs do and let me continue?" But then I continue this line of thought, "But I suppose this can be realistic - submarines during WWII would SINK cargo ships, not just pull them over and demand them to dump the cargo." Which led me to have warm, fuzzy memories about all the WWII submarine games I've played over the years, which then led me to this eureka:

Make hunting in SC like a WWII submarine game, where the hunt is a major part of the game!

How do we do this? Simple - seriously nerf scanner range in supercruise.

Everyone says supercruise is to show us how big space is, yet when an entire chunk of solar system, including every ship within zillians of kilometers is visible on my tiny radar, supercuise actually feels much smaller than the comparatively small ocean in my WWII game. Space is BIG, is it not? How is it I can see every ship in the system on my sensors? Now imagine if I could only see those in close proximity - this would add an entire new layer of gameplay, and it would help balance the incredible advantage gankers currently have over traders. Gankers could still gank, using proper Navy wolfpack patrol tactics along shipping lanes, but it would require some skill to actually find and intercept traders.

On the flip-side, traders don't get an instant "easy mode" pass from this, as they won't be able to see wolf packs until it's too late. They could potentially avoid many of these ambushes by flying outside the shipping lanes, but that'll take effort and cost them time (thus incentivizing rich traders to build ships that can "ram through" wolf packs on the trade routes). Another mechanism to help give balance is to make detection in SC based on ship's speed, not as it currently is, but opposite of how it currently is. In other words, the faster you are traveling, the LESS you can see in SC, whereas sitting still allows you to see MORE, just like sonar on Naval ships work today. This means a wolf pack would be "invisible" on SC radar to a fast-moving trader until the trader is on top of them, and then boom, interdiction!

Also, wings could be used to share this SC data, so that if you are in a wing that is spread out through the solar system, and one ship in the wing gets a "ping", all ships in the wing see that ping on their scanners.

Did I mention that this improved gameplay and sense of immersion and scale would be TRIVIAL to implement? All Frontier needs to do is greatly reduce sensor range (the current range making zero sense in light of, well, light speed). Within this new limited range, have sensor resolution based on ship speed to mimic IRL ship sonar - faster means reduced sensors due to FTL wake interference, whereas dead stop gives the longest range (but still tiny compared to the size of the solar system).

I'm telling you, it's brilliant, BRILLIANT!!!!

Great idea

And the other suggestions with stars causing blind spots and interdiction mines etc. Really cool

 

[Old Duck]

Actually never mind all this. Just played a short session of elite after long months of hiatus. Arriving at the only reasonable decision, I'm rage quitting.

I haven't rage quit, but I have "joy started" another game (Space Engineers) that has me completely addicted and makes me think of what ED could have been. "Joy starting" is way more 'happy-happy' than rage quitting, LOL.

 

[Azreh Helas]

You made one incorrect statement. You cannot detect every ship in the system. You can only detect the ships with active FSD bubbles.

I am not sure about this. I think SC is mostly okay as it stands.

Even that has a distance limit it would seem.

 

[Havvk]

@Havvk

Exactly.
No-one is suggesting to pretend those spaceships are using sonar pings LOL
Just the mechanics of it would allow Supercruise to become an interesting game the very same way Fronter has (luckily) decided to base their flight model on aerial combat instead of full inertia space turrets, which would have been more realistic. It's not about realism, it's about interesting game mechanics based on some chosen concepts coming from realism. Add whatever lore your heart desires, it's all make believe anyway

This is space, not water

 

[nanite2000]

This is space, not water

Actually, it’s a game. Not water.

 

[Havvk]

Actually, it’s a game. Not water.

Actually it's an interactive space screensaver, not a game

 

[Charonys]

Love most of the suggestions here.

Problem is, a lot of people just want games to be easy because they dislike complexity or well-designed challenges. Then there are those who want to keep the status quo because they are masochists who hate quality of life improvements and optimization in general. No wonder game developers are trying to avoid gamers - it's frustrating.

 

[nanite2000]

Actually it's an interactive space screensaver, not a game

So you agree it can, and should, be improved?

 

[A C Ender]

Love most of the suggestions here.

Problem is, a lot of people just want games to be easy because they dislike complexity or well-designed challenges. Then there are those who want to keep the status quo because they are masochists who hate quality of life improvements and optimization in general. No wonder game developers are trying to avoid gamers - it's frustrating.

These suggestions wouldn't make it harder to fly straight to a station. Depending on implementation, it may make it harder to interdict such an enemy. Regardless of implementation, it should add gameplay for both sides, with room for outplaying the opponent.

 

[space voyager]

I support the suggestion. I like the submarine comparison though those were at war, while gankers just do it for fun. Even more reason to limit their capabilities.

 

[Old Duck]

While this doesn't address the issues mentioned in the OP, yesterday I was introduced to a mod that greatly enhances the feel of supercruise (and regular space) in a way that's similar. Here is the mod:

Graphics Mod to Remove Haze

Ok, so a bit of a follow up to my last post... Below is the problem I was getting: First, the dim, "are my lights actually on" view from the SRV cockpit (as an example - the same effects are seen from the ship) Now, the view from exactly the same spot but from the SRV turret view After...

forums.frontier.co.uk

There's an option to turn off all canopy HUD elements - the names and circles and targeting reticles superimposed on objects in space. The cockpit HUD remains, so you can still see your radar and gauges. That's a good thing, because you're going to need them! With no overlays, you end up relying on your radar and other cockpit displays to find your targets and navigate. I originally installed this to get rid of all the "clutter" that junks up my view out the window, but as I play the game without these visual aids, space feels more like a proper "ocean", forcing me to rely on my instruments to navigate. Those of you longing for a similar experience may very much enjoy this mod!

The one major downside is that it makes it difficult to use fixed weapons like railguns, because there are no visual targeting aids at all. Even WWII planes had a crosshair to show where their guns shoot, so I do miss that. On the other hand, it does add an extra challenge for those who seek it.

 

[Leadfoot]

It's great idea! But there is a catch: Wolf hanging near the nav beacon will be able to see every sheep jumping into the system.

That's a good point. The first "fix" that comes to mind is that the sun ought to blind all sensors in close proximity (it is a giant constant nuclear explosion, after all), thus anything near the sun will be effectively blind. However, a really good pilot could still see the wake trails (the comet-like effects our ships have) and visually follow their prey, adding the necessity of skill to hunt in SC.

Change all marks to solid rectangles. No one should be able to tell who's an NPC and who's an actual human just by looking at the radar.

Oh, and have a Mr. Coffee next to Mr. Radar. You always have coffee before looking at radar, right?