Sarah Jane Avory
Retro Queen
The Docking Computer thread.
- Thread starter Caledonian
- Start date
It's been fixed for the next DC release.
btw, great work Sarah. Using the DC now really makes sense. Never had any Problems with it since 1.3. thx
WOW! You go WAY BACK with this game don't you! I owned an AMIGA myself back in the day. Used it for music software in my 16 track recording studio at the time. Great platform in its day!
I agree that the docking sequence should be slowed down to a more realistic pace, so it handles everything a little more gracefully. It also has a nasty habit when installed on my Cobra Mk. III of running head on into those advertising billboard buoys that line to approach to some of the larger stations. My DC just plows right though those if they happen to be in the way during final approach. Its really obvious when you watch this happen that the DC doesn't even know those billboards are there. I reported this as a bug, so hopefully they will look into the problem.
As for the frame rates... The machine I am running the game on is the same machine I have used on several internal/closed beta tests of some pretty well known IPs including GTA5 for XB1. The final build of GTA5 before retail release ran beautifully at a locked 30fps on this same console. If you have played or seen GTA5 in action you know it is considerably more demanding graphically than anything currently on offer in Elite Dangerous for XB1 to date.
So... Based on my literally decades of beta testing experiences, I can assure everyone that the current build of this game has some SERIOUS rendering engine coding issues. Not having any direct contacts with the developers because this is a PUBLIC beta, I can only guess at the causes.
My first thought was that the game has some rather SERIOUS hardware/software optimization issues. I have also been told by one of the veteran PC version users that the rendering engine being used in this game is proprietary component designed and coded by Frontier themselves.
Don't know why they didn't just buy a robust and proven engine like UNREAL or something similar. Any of those top tier award winning rendering engines could run a game as graphically basic as this current Elite for XB1 build without even breaking a sweat. Yet this Frontier proprietary engine is huffing and puffing just to open a menu while rendering a Star Trek like star field at the same time.
I'd be rather embarassed if I were Frontier. I was certainly taken aback by how rough the frame rates were the first time I played the game, and went to do a JUMP. That jump graphic sequence appears to be a "pre-rendered loop" yet the game can't manage to get through the sequence without choking. Like I said... Embarrassing, considering that the XB1 hardware is a relatively powerful piece of computer hardware.
Anyway... Lets hope that the next build runs at a solid/locked 30fps at the very least. Based on my experience with other XB1 games currently in closed beta, there is really no reason why Elite can't run at a locked 60fps. I see nothing in the rendered graphics that could be considered demanding for this console.
Heh....showing my age a bit I guess! Sorry to hear of the troubles you are having. I play this on PC too since beta. You are right..it is an engine written by Frontier....think they call it COBRA. I think....apparently designed to be flexible across multi platforms....and you are right, it should be silky smooth. I am just not sure how much the engine is to blame and how much the lag is due to the online element of the game. ( probably a bit of both) You mentioned how the jump sequence is choppy....this happens on PC to....even those with top end rigs and that is because It's just an animation like you said....behind the scenes the game is pulling info from Frontier servers to render the system you are jumping to.....if it's having trouble getting that info then you get the choppiness. Same with stations.....the game is pulling more info from the servers to populate thing like the station menus...other player ships. People need to realise they are basically playing an MMO .... even with the best of rigs and coding engines you can get lag and chop if the game is having trouble getting info from the servers.
When I jump the animation for me is smooth...how can this be when we are running on XB1 consoles? It's not like PC where someone's rig is better set up or optimised than the next person's. Same at the station....all smooth.....no chopping for me. But I do tend to play solo mode so the game is not relying as much on server info.
Also you mentioned how your DC keeps smashing you in to billboards. I have mine installed on a Cobra and it has never so much as scraped the paintwork in over 100 docks. This leads me to think it could be a problem with getting info from the servers. Like how the other day in an MMO I ended up running in to a wall. Not because I was blind but because the info got garbled between my game and the server and suddenly my character did a 90 degree turn and ran headlong into a wall as the game got confused with where I really was and where the servers thought I was.
I don't know. You are right...you should be getting a smooth experience. I am, with the odd exception...I can't say I have any frame rate issues which is something I don't understand when we are all running on identical pieces of hardware. Yet you do read on these forums that people are having terrible chop in the stations or intense battles..but you also get others who say they don't. How come? If it was down to the engine or hardware alone then we would all be suffering the same surely ? ( again I am probably showing my ignorance as I am not a very technical person )
Something does need to be done though as Frontier don't have the luxury of using different hardware setups as an excuse though !!
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I think the game needs a lot of code optimization. It's correct that the "exit hyperspace" sequence is just an hidden "loading..." but I feel the game should load bigger parts of the local galaxy and then play (sort of) offline, at least for solo mode.
It's not a lot of info, if you don't jump too far between systems. I'd rather have one big loading and then play smooth for at least 30 minutes.
I see a lot of frame rate dropping in the cockpit free view, no idea why but I really see it's choppy.
It's not a lot of info, if you don't jump too far between systems. I'd rather have one big loading and then play smooth for at least 30 minutes.
I see a lot of frame rate dropping in the cockpit free view, no idea why but I really see it's choppy.
It's been fixed for the next DC release.
sweet, thank you
Everyone start reporting bugs with the docking computer! if Mistress of Minions is looking at the docking computer. She will be distracted from making the NPC's harder to kill. It's getting silly above deadly / dangerous now. Soon we'll be searching for harmless npc's to take out because everything else runs rings around us!
I don't think it is anything to do with distance travelled. Each time you exit witch space or even supercruise within a system you are entering an 'instance' that the game has to pull info from servers in order to populate it correctly, even if you are in solo - though granted it isn't as much. It isn't just about if there are other player ships but about how that system or local area of space has been/is being affected by other players. Such as if it is still under a galactic power the same as last time, what commodities have been traded, how stock prices have been affected, How extensively an area has been mined, basically all the things that you and every other player does that has/is dynamically altered/altering that part of the galaxy or even that part of the system you are in. The XBOX simply couldn't hold that much info in its relatively paltry 8GBP memory. Even if it could load and store local portions of the galaxy would that work? The instant it stored that Info in your machine it would start to become out of date with the rest of the galaxy. Then you would have totally fragmented portions of galaxy stored on each xbox, which at some point the servers would have to pull back and try and make sense of putting it back together. Imagine the lag then....
Like I say I am not a techno person so I don't explain it very well. But I can't begin to imagine the amount of info you have going back and forth for even a small portion of the galaxy. I know this, even on top end PC rigs, explorers who make it to near the core of the galaxy where the star density is massively bigger, it was taking their PC's a large amount of time to calculate routes of more than a few jumps plotted in the galaxy map. Your talking three or four minutes because of the millions of possible routes available, some even gave up after waiting up to ten minutes....that is lag...lol. Hate to think how the Xbox will cope with that when our players start to get that far.
This isn't just a space game or the average online shoot en up.....a dynamic galaxy is being simulated here. I know I sound like a fanboy, I am not, check out the zoo tycoon forum for xbox one and see what I had to say to Frontier there...
You are right about things like free cockpit view...shouldn't be any frame rate issues there. I haven't noticed any myself and I spend a lot of time in free cockpit mode when I am off exploring. Unless you are using it to access menu panels...I have noticed that it sometimes has trouble getting menus up. But once opened things are fine. I once got terrible lag when I opened up the system map in the middle of a RES point battle by mistake. The game seemed to hang for several seconds...came back...stopped for a few more....did that a few times. But i think the game accessed servers to populate the map. That and the fact I was in a high I intensity RES zone brought things to its knees. So the game does need work on I agree. But what I am saying is that lag around stations or opening up menu screens or hyperspace could be more to do with internet speed issues, the players side of thing or Frontiers, I don't know. I have cable internet at 50mbps per sec and don't have a problem with choppiness/lag at stations and only the odd occasional lag where things sometimes jump after a brief pause at high intensity zones or battles. I don't get chop in hyperspace animation. Most of the framerate issues other people are having I don't seem to be experiencing and I don't know why?
Having said that I played Eve Online occasionally on PC and never had any chopping there on menu systems or near stations so you all do have a point.
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Well, what you say it's correct but I still take other online games for comparison. Some of them keep loading info in background so you don't have to wait while exploring. I think ED should and could do something similar. Yes, there are a lot of variables in play but I'm sure the data size is extremely low as it's something about coordinates, prices and percentages, not graphics to load, etc.
About choppy cockpit framerate maybe you're right, I always use it with menus and it's not a problem I see constantly.
Talking about Xbox I don't see it so weak as you say. It may not be the most powerful game machine in the world but I'm sure it's on average much better of the whole gaming computer base out there. Since previous generation consoles were able to manage immense games (see fallout, skyrim, gta and other open space environment) with only 256 MB of RAM, I don't think it may have difficulties to manage ED numbers.
For sure ED for Xbox needs lot of improvement but, since we can see it as a beta for now, it's surely the most advanced beta of a game I've ever tried.
I only hope David Braben will soon tell us if there will be a data wipe before official release or not. I really don't like the idea to waste hundreds of hours for nothing.
(Well, ok, it experience, but still time wasted, imho).
About choppy cockpit framerate maybe you're right, I always use it with menus and it's not a problem I see constantly.
Talking about Xbox I don't see it so weak as you say. It may not be the most powerful game machine in the world but I'm sure it's on average much better of the whole gaming computer base out there. Since previous generation consoles were able to manage immense games (see fallout, skyrim, gta and other open space environment) with only 256 MB of RAM, I don't think it may have difficulties to manage ED numbers.
For sure ED for Xbox needs lot of improvement but, since we can see it as a beta for now, it's surely the most advanced beta of a game I've ever tried.
I only hope David Braben will soon tell us if there will be a data wipe before official release or not. I really don't like the idea to waste hundreds of hours for nothing.
(Well, ok, it experience, but still time wasted, imho).
You know...I never considered that the frame rate problems could be related to online data fetching. THAT is VERY worrying if this is indeed the reason for all the choppy frame rates and whatnot. I have a pretty fast connection to the net here, and I never run into any serious problems with any other online game. I played the crap out of GTA5 Online with both my XB1 and PS4. Prior to that on my 360 and my now traded in PS3. NONE of these versions of that highly graphically demanding game came anywhere close to this level of bogging down, and the amount of graphic assets being pulled down or loaded locally was literally 1000 times more volume than Elite.
Then you have other XB1 games that run at a solid and LOCKED 60fps. I am never going to agree with anyone that blames the Xbox One for any of what we are seeing in this current build. As you mentioned, and as I have seen for myself with some of the Frontier created YouTUbe training videos... Even their own computers are stuttering while jumping to another system! The first time I saw that in one of their videos, my heart sank!
Do they honestly think that this kind of sloppy frame rate performance is acceptable? GAWD I HOPE NOT!
While I am loving the game overall and see a huge potential for where this can take the XB1 in regards to the long ignored SPACE SIM genre, I can't think of anything more likely to torpedo Elite on console than releasing the game to the public with mid 20s frame rates that dip into single digits on a regular basis! This is NEXT GEN hardware! There isn't a CONSOLE game reviewer/journalist on the planet that won't crucify Elite Dangerous if they don't fix the frame rate problems and deliver AT LEAST a locked 30fps. Even then, there will be quite a few that will complain that a game like this should have no problem running on the XB1 at 60fps without breaking a sweat!
All of us who have checked out enough of the current XB1 catalogue knows that 60fps is well within the purview of this hardware. Only the PC trolls will claim otherwise.
Then you have other XB1 games that run at a solid and LOCKED 60fps. I am never going to agree with anyone that blames the Xbox One for any of what we are seeing in this current build. As you mentioned, and as I have seen for myself with some of the Frontier created YouTUbe training videos... Even their own computers are stuttering while jumping to another system! The first time I saw that in one of their videos, my heart sank!
Do they honestly think that this kind of sloppy frame rate performance is acceptable? GAWD I HOPE NOT!
While I am loving the game overall and see a huge potential for where this can take the XB1 in regards to the long ignored SPACE SIM genre, I can't think of anything more likely to torpedo Elite on console than releasing the game to the public with mid 20s frame rates that dip into single digits on a regular basis! This is NEXT GEN hardware! There isn't a CONSOLE game reviewer/journalist on the planet that won't crucify Elite Dangerous if they don't fix the frame rate problems and deliver AT LEAST a locked 30fps. Even then, there will be quite a few that will complain that a game like this should have no problem running on the XB1 at 60fps without breaking a sweat!
All of us who have checked out enough of the current XB1 catalogue knows that 60fps is well within the purview of this hardware. Only the PC trolls will claim otherwise.
Oh! And Lock... I will be VERY SURPRISED if we are allowed to KEEP our current save file once the XB1 final build is released to the public. I've been a professional beta tester for over 30 years, and I can count the number of games that permitted us to retain our beta generated progress on one hand. Prior to online gaming, that was just part of the way console games worked pre internet.
Since XBL launched and then PSN, the reasons are more to do with the way the beta programs introduced the testers into the IP.
In this case, we all started with 100k worth of credits which I know for a fact IS NOT what you will start with in the public version. The progress appears to have been somewhat streamlined for us too. Then there is the whole syncing of the three versions with each other that I have heard has yet to be done, and many other "tells" that would indicate that keeping all the tester's save files post final release is highly, highly unlikely to happen. Probably much too much work for Frontier, and there is also the possibility that some file services and other stuff might actually be changed ahead of the final release, so we could also see our progress wiped more than once.
This is all part of the whole Beta testing ballgame. And one of the aspects of Public Betas I always wondered about. Most gamers who come into these public tests have never tested a game before, and more often than not, they have no idea how much different the whole experience is compared to their normal gaming routines.
As I said... Of the dozens of games I have Alpha and Beta tested over the years, I can count the number of developers that allowed us to keep our progress on one hand. And even then, I don't need all five fingers to count them all.
I suggest just treating this as an introduction to the franchise, and don't get too embroiled in any particular achievements etc.
Since XBL launched and then PSN, the reasons are more to do with the way the beta programs introduced the testers into the IP.
In this case, we all started with 100k worth of credits which I know for a fact IS NOT what you will start with in the public version. The progress appears to have been somewhat streamlined for us too. Then there is the whole syncing of the three versions with each other that I have heard has yet to be done, and many other "tells" that would indicate that keeping all the tester's save files post final release is highly, highly unlikely to happen. Probably much too much work for Frontier, and there is also the possibility that some file services and other stuff might actually be changed ahead of the final release, so we could also see our progress wiped more than once.
This is all part of the whole Beta testing ballgame. And one of the aspects of Public Betas I always wondered about. Most gamers who come into these public tests have never tested a game before, and more often than not, they have no idea how much different the whole experience is compared to their normal gaming routines.
As I said... Of the dozens of games I have Alpha and Beta tested over the years, I can count the number of developers that allowed us to keep our progress on one hand. And even then, I don't need all five fingers to count them all.
I suggest just treating this as an introduction to the franchise, and don't get too embroiled in any particular achievements etc.
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Oh! And Lock... I will be VERY SURPRISED if we are allowed to KEEP our current save file once the XB1 final build is released to the public. I've been a professional beta tester for over 30 years, and I can count the number of games that permitted us to retain our beta generated progress on one hand. Prior to online gaming, that was just part of the way console games worked pre internet.
Since XBL launched and then PSN, the reasons are more to do with the way the beta programs introduced the testers into the IP.
In this case, we all started with 100k worth of credits which I know for a fact IS NOT what you will start with in the public version. The progress appears to have been somewhat streamlined for us too. Then there is the whole syncing of the three versions with each other that I have heard has yet to be done, and many other "tells" that would indicate that keeping all the tester's save files post final release is highly, highly unlikely to happen. Probably much too much work for Frontier, and there is also the possibility that some file services and other stuff might actually be changed ahead of the final release, so we could also see our progress wiped more than once.
This is all part of the whole Beta testing ballgame. And one of the aspects of Public Betas I always wondered about. Most gamers who come into these public tests have never tested a game before, and more often than not, they have no idea how much different the whole experience is compared to their normal gaming routines.
As I said... Of the dozens of games I have Alpha and Beta tested over the years, I can count the number of developers that allowed us to keep our progress on one hand. And even then, I don't need all five fingers to count them all.
I suggest just treating this as an introduction to the franchise, and don't get too embroiled in any particular achievements etc.
I agree with everything you say up to a point...but if Frontier are going to wipe the game because of the 100,000 cred advantage, or the progress streamlining you say is in place, how are they going to handle the fact we have unlocked achievements on xboxlive. Surely this means we have unlocked them unfairly? Almost like cheating. If the public release makes the game tougher and your starting position less advantageous, then the players coming after us are going to have to work harder to unlock the same achievements. With the way the achievement system is jealously guarded by Microsoft and how they make it an important cornerstone of the whole xbox live experience, I don't think they would stand for this?
I have played PC Elite right from the beginning and there was more than one wipe. But these were mainly because of bugs or game exploits that put some people at an unfair sdvantage, such as massively wealthy. These have been found and sorted. Now in some ways a wipe and game reset to a less advantageous one would in some way create an imbalance with the achievement system.
Maybe the extra money at start-up and the progress streamlining ( not sure what this means how has the game been streamlined ) maybe it is a console driven concession that will be permanent. It is well known that console players are considered to be more of an immediate gratification type of player. Maybe this is Frontiers attempt to pull in a larger share of the Xbox audience. David Braben himself says this is why they are introducing the PVP Championship system to console first. In order to give 'the console type of player' the style of gameplay that suits them. I know this has some PC players up in arms as it is a feature they would like but have not been given. The fact that they have been with the game from the beginning, then the console version comes along with it almost ready to be put in place, well understandably some PC players feel betrayed.
I know there is the argument that the PC and console galaxies will eventually share their existence. Maybe we are over estimating the amount of influence each galaxy will have on the other essentially seperate galaxy. Things like powerplay will be shared sure, but if one system loses control to another power, will it matter if it's because a hundred missions were completed by players who got their equivalent ships slightly quicker than pc players? The same effort has to be put in to those missions. Personal advantages such as the type of ship you are flying couldn't put the other galaxy and its players at a disadvantage surely or console players are already screwed as the PC players have months of a head start.
Makes my head spin to think of all the variables of partially shared galaxies but surely Frontier have arranged it so the players in one galaxy aren't put at a disadvantage by players in the other galaxy.
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Everything may be but, honestly, I don't think 100k make a big difference over 1k. As I already said with just two missions in bulletin board I've made 150k in about 30 minutes, still not touching the starting credit.
All I ask is a confirmation, that's all.
In the doubt I don't feel I want to play, I've got lot of other games to finish.
But then, if there won't be a wipe, I'll regret the time I didn't spent on ED.
That's why I'd like a quick answer from the Empire. ;P
All I ask is a confirmation, that's all.
In the doubt I don't feel I want to play, I've got lot of other games to finish.
But then, if there won't be a wipe, I'll regret the time I didn't spent on ED.
That's why I'd like a quick answer from the Empire. ;P
Everything may be but, honestly, I don't think 100k make a big difference over 1k. As I already said with just two missions in bulletin board I've made 150k in about 30 minutes, still not touching the starting credit.
All I ask is a confirmation, that's all.
In the doubt I don't feel I want to play, I've got lot of other games to finish.
But then, if there won't be a wipe, I'll regret the time I didn't spent on ED.
That's why I'd like a quick answer from the Empire. ;P
True...my long winded posts basically say one thing.... ' I don't know for sure. ' !!
It would be nice to know either way. Perhaps Frontier don't know...maybe they are waiting to see what happens with the preview program for a few weeks before making th e decision. It's like GG pointed out. We were made no promises when we hopped on board the preview.
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I am thinking and hoping there won't be a need to wipe, after all this seems to be almost pretty much the finished article.
If they do have to have a wipe or two before upgrade to final release though, then at least we'll have all had a chance to learn what we're supposed to be doing in the game.
Loving it so far but time is just one big black hole with this game... damn you braben!
If they do have to have a wipe or two before upgrade to final release though, then at least we'll have all had a chance to learn what we're supposed to be doing in the game.
Loving it so far but time is just one big black hole with this game... damn you braben!
Dear Jack Schitt;
You must take into account if the trader to sacrifice shields for the additional cargo, it must be compensated DC for safer docking station.
On the one hand, there is a trader which makes more than 50 flights, while having an excess of security in the form of shields and DC. On the other hand, there is a trader which makes less of number of flights, but it runs the risk of crash when docking or lose cargo between destinations. As for me that is not logical.
PS We will be objective - not 2t but 4.
You must take into account if the trader to sacrifice shields for the additional cargo, it must be compensated DC for safer docking station.
On the one hand, there is a trader which makes more than 50 flights, while having an excess of security in the form of shields and DC. On the other hand, there is a trader which makes less of number of flights, but it runs the risk of crash when docking or lose cargo between destinations. As for me that is not logical.
PS We will be objective - not 2t but 4.
I have never said this.
- - - Updated - - -
SJA already exists.
Hurricane Moon
Banned
i love the docking computer...only on the big ships like a Annie or t9 though.....never had a problem with it hitting anything and crashing.
even use voice commands for the whole process of landing inside a station with VA
even use voice commands for the whole process of landing inside a station with VA
Yep, sorted that too.
How so - did you send adult nappies to the more easily frightened ...
I just had the weirdest docking experience yet!
I was docking at a Coriolis Starport (Chernykh Ringin the Dvorsi system), or rather my docking computer did (Type 9-Heavy version). As always, I did something off-screen as he was doing so, at least until I noticed odd movements in the corner of my eyes. And what do I see? The docking computer is turning the ship 180 degree on the x-axis! It then continued to dock as protocol demands it, but ended up having the ship hovering in a perfect dock-me position over the landing pad. I was facing the towers of the pad as usual, but something was off. Then it hit me: my ship showed me my cockpit on the docking-hologram! When doing it right, I should see the main thrusters, not the cockpit! Turned out, this time the station wanted me to dock the other way around, facing the ramps instead of the towers!
The docking computer of course knew as much as I about this procedure: nothing. It continued to hover there relentlessly. I of course attempted to fix this by briefly giving thrust. The docking computer then would ditch the nose of my Type 9 into the landing pad (without collisions though), pull up and land in the same direction as he thought he's supposed to. I had to turn him off in the panel and turn the ship manually. Is this a bug related to the station, is it supposed to happen, is it a bug caused by a disliking fluctuating between my docking computer and the station's computers? I also see a highly increased number of NPC ships being shot to pieces by this station. Could it be connected?
Even weirder, as I undocked I wasn't turned by the platform. I simply undocked an was on my way. I therefore must ask: can I pretty please keep this reverse-docking? It's faster! Please, keep it and teach the docking computer how to reverse-dock!
Screens below!
I was docking at a Coriolis Starport (Chernykh Ringin the Dvorsi system), or rather my docking computer did (Type 9-Heavy version). As always, I did something off-screen as he was doing so, at least until I noticed odd movements in the corner of my eyes. And what do I see? The docking computer is turning the ship 180 degree on the x-axis! It then continued to dock as protocol demands it, but ended up having the ship hovering in a perfect dock-me position over the landing pad. I was facing the towers of the pad as usual, but something was off. Then it hit me: my ship showed me my cockpit on the docking-hologram! When doing it right, I should see the main thrusters, not the cockpit! Turned out, this time the station wanted me to dock the other way around, facing the ramps instead of the towers!
The docking computer of course knew as much as I about this procedure: nothing. It continued to hover there relentlessly. I of course attempted to fix this by briefly giving thrust. The docking computer then would ditch the nose of my Type 9 into the landing pad (without collisions though), pull up and land in the same direction as he thought he's supposed to. I had to turn him off in the panel and turn the ship manually. Is this a bug related to the station, is it supposed to happen, is it a bug caused by a disliking fluctuating between my docking computer and the station's computers? I also see a highly increased number of NPC ships being shot to pieces by this station. Could it be connected?
Even weirder, as I undocked I wasn't turned by the platform. I simply undocked an was on my way. I therefore must ask: can I pretty please keep this reverse-docking? It's faster! Please, keep it and teach the docking computer how to reverse-dock!
Screens below!
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