I noticed the spokes aren't equilateral. Might be interesting to measure the angular offset -might be 20°?
The Quest To Find Raxxla
- Thread starter Macros Black
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Ah, fair enough.
I find use of the 'reply' and 'quote' functions go a long way in establishing context and reducing ambiguity
That's the real irony here
From a rough vector sketch, YES IT IS
Considering this is view is not perpendicular to the garden, you can see it is still close. In hindsight I should have used 23.5° but honestly I was too excited by this to care about a few degrees
I would be wary to suspect that it denotes Earth / Sol, that’s just too easy and doesn’t justify this level of complexity. I presume the hypothetical system diagram from the garden doesn’t seem to fit?
Prior to the fall, the axis was indeed fixed, Milton cleverly utilised the tilt of the earths axis and the movement of the sun across the Earth surface to address the movement of time or more so it’s non movement, prior to the fall, reinforcing the idyllic nature of paradise.
I would be concerned if FD went into SO much detail concerning the math, but then again, this entire concept it totally breathtaking, so who knows!
Prior to the fall, the axis was indeed fixed, Milton cleverly utilised the tilt of the earths axis and the movement of the sun across the Earth surface to address the movement of time or more so it’s non movement, prior to the fall, reinforcing the idyllic nature of paradise.
I would be concerned if FD went into SO much detail concerning the math, but then again, this entire concept it totally breathtaking, so who knows!
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I don't really think the 'symbol' at the far end of docking bays is really related to Raxxla, either, I just really want it to be
Open Spansh system search, set desired distance (60), set reference system (Sol), set body count (4, so 3 planets/moons since star counts as 1), click search...result 692
Count=5...723
Count=6...761
Simples!(Wot, no meerkat emoji??)
4 bodies within/touching the middle part of the garden design, plus two on the right hand side....is the RHS an expansion of the larger body within the middle? ...if so then 5+star=6 total, if not then 6+star=7 total.
I ain't going to attempt that large a search (I've been on this quest for 8 years now, I'm all fernwehed out!
) ...Great potato hunt should already have covered those systems. We are unlikely to find Raxxla without having some idea of what we're looking for since it's clearly obfuscated (what does an Omphalos Rift look like? can you even see it? Do you have to fly through it to detect it?)
I'm assuming Raxxla =Paradise and MB would have located it in Heaven (FD server) only accessible (instanced) by finding and travelling the golden staircase (Omphalos Rift). So we need to find Heavens Gate!
Yes I believe it’s very likely, and probably lots of Cmdrs have now visited the system but whatever Raxxla is it’s possibly so innocuous, everyone probably just ignores it.
For instance I’d known of the garden stations like everyone else since their introduction but ‘never’ actually looked at them and not made any association with Milton - until only recently.
That’s not due to ignorance, but because sometimes we are overly aware of apophenia, to trust our senses. So I would not be surprised to find it in a busy system.
The preconception may likewise be exaggerated beyond the reality of what Raxxla is.
In considering the Codex as ‘information’ prior to this Raxxla was described by Holdstock as a body (planet/moon) with an alien construct. Guarded by Elites of some mysterious group (The Dark Wheel).
In ED that description can either fit Guardian tech descriptions, or held by some sinister cabal. This all could marry in with the in game The Dark Wheel faction but in the ED game we can presumably accept this is now long dead, only replaced by some sham - confirmed by Drew, insinuated by the Codex.
New information is, the existence of the Mars relic, known to have gone missing/lost/stolen. It’s likely this was also a narrative element, gleaned from Brookes admitting so in a Dev video.
New information is, the Dark Wheel has a low power station around the eighth moon of a gas giant. Low power may mean - can’t be found on a scanner.
Additional new information is, Raxxla may just be an unremarkable moon; or a state on cosmic enlightenment!
I think the last couple of new elements identify an area where such an objective may become ultimately difficult to locate - if our expectations are set too high?
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Like a broken egg…
Or the Orion Nebula complex…
Or a Thargoid Symbol….
Or a weird Symbol in a garden….
Or something kinda Miltonian…
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I'm viewing the Omphalos Rift as something like a Harry Potter portkey...it could look like any normal object in-game that actually takes you somewhere unusual when triggered. I believe the report that the system has been entered but Raxxla not discovered which tends to support that view. So, a NS (Jackson's Lighthouse?) that jumps you somewhere different? A BH that actually leads somewhere? Those would both be object types in-game from the outset, however NS boosting didn't come in until The Guardians v2.2 in 2016, and I think telling us Raxxla was in game from the outset but not implementing the Omphalos mechansim to get there until a year later would be very underhand and I dont think MB or DB would do that. An undetectable BH would be a good possibility....a grapefruit-sized BH orbiting in the Oort cloud was one candidate theory for "Sol planet X" .
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Oh, I think the axis tilt & "mountain" (Mount Purgatory?) in that garden design is just another hint to Paradise Lost. As I said before I think the station gardens are a visual clue to look at Milton and decode his verse...which makes me wonder if TDW have an allegorical equivalent in Paradise Lost?? This is the in-game "Raxxla storyline" MB mentioned & I'm wondering if "TDW storyline" is part & parcel of that?
I wondered when I recently did the Brookes Memorial Tour if the final TB Milton quote about the Pendant Sphere was actually another hint...zoom out in Galaxy mao and you see a "golden chain" leading to the Orion Nebula. That chain contains a system named " Legacy". I did search it because of the name repetition (MB's book, megaship name, etc) but found nothing....but what are we looking for?Like a broken egg…
Or the Orion Nebula complex…
Or a Thargoid Symbol….
Or a weird Symbol in a garden….
Or something kinda Miltonian…
And from what I understand of the Milton cosmology that @Rochester has proved to be embedded in the game I don't think the Orion Neb fits (though I really need to see a 3D model as I can't visualise it very well).
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Orion isn’t truly part of the text, it’s utilised only once to my memory in association to describe an on coming storm, because that constellation position in our sky used to be associated with inclement weather.
The Miltonian model, does not extend outside the bubble. To my knowledge.
There are indications - in my opinion - that might identify certain focal points ‘might’ align with certain exterior locations, but there are no direct relationships, only a visual alignment with a very low level of reliability. I could speculate these could have been part of some archeological narrative markers?
I would consider that the reference to “Legacy” is another clue, likewise with regards to the reference to a unique burial method, in the tour, might be intended to direct our attention to Brookes book ‘Elite Legacy’.
Again the Codex could be hinting towards Legacy in regards to the reference to a ‘children’s story’.
There likely is some key stone element in that book towards kick-starting a route towards uncovering Raxxla, to date other than some potential references to the triple deity Artemis, Demeter etc. I’ve not been able to decipher any more.
Although an enjoyable read, it is rather dry and filled with minutiae seemingly trivial details, a lot of the data too might be inaccurate, eg various systems / ship elements don’t exist - at minimum this might be because it was written very earlier than launch, but Brookes was obviously immensely intelligent, and had a sense of humour so I would not rule out he inserted something into the book. So it’s a strong candidate still in my opinion.
Again there is always the issue that we are over thinking elements, or certain aspects we’ve identified are archeological. FD could have inserted certain aspects after-the-fact, to mitigate broken links!
Remember the hypothetical garden design, if correct is likewise evidence of very ‘obvious’ clues having existed in game from the outset that everyone has been totally complacent about.
Granted one does require ’eyes to see’!
The Miltonian model, does not extend outside the bubble. To my knowledge.
There are indications - in my opinion - that might identify certain focal points ‘might’ align with certain exterior locations, but there are no direct relationships, only a visual alignment with a very low level of reliability. I could speculate these could have been part of some archeological narrative markers?
I would consider that the reference to “Legacy” is another clue, likewise with regards to the reference to a unique burial method, in the tour, might be intended to direct our attention to Brookes book ‘Elite Legacy’.
Again the Codex could be hinting towards Legacy in regards to the reference to a ‘children’s story’.
There likely is some key stone element in that book towards kick-starting a route towards uncovering Raxxla, to date other than some potential references to the triple deity Artemis, Demeter etc. I’ve not been able to decipher any more.
Although an enjoyable read, it is rather dry and filled with minutiae seemingly trivial details, a lot of the data too might be inaccurate, eg various systems / ship elements don’t exist - at minimum this might be because it was written very earlier than launch, but Brookes was obviously immensely intelligent, and had a sense of humour so I would not rule out he inserted something into the book. So it’s a strong candidate still in my opinion.
Again there is always the issue that we are over thinking elements, or certain aspects we’ve identified are archeological. FD could have inserted certain aspects after-the-fact, to mitigate broken links!
Remember the hypothetical garden design, if correct is likewise evidence of very ‘obvious’ clues having existed in game from the outset that everyone has been totally complacent about.
Granted one does require ’eyes to see’!
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Yes, I've thought that. I did ponder trying to search for a cargo pod adrift in the asteroid belt, but there doesn't really seem to be one...
Is there a possibility that something in Elite Legacy ties in with Milton cosmology?
Is there a possibility that something in Elite Legacy ties in with Milton cosmology?
One would expect so, but Ive not as of late been able to identify anything - obvious.
But again I do find it laborious and dry to read, contextually there aren’t many obvious classical references (could be well hidden) that are made overtly apparent, the emphasis apart from the protagonists is upon a certain deity, I do wonder if the system naming has relevance to a key historical incident linked by those locations, or the characters likewise.
The book doesn’t seem to have any allegorical references, but thats probably due to my scholarly bias.
Likewise from a gaming convention I too would expect a physical aspect ought to be presented in that system, I wonder if it’s hidden behind more obfuscation/faction missions?
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Ok wall of text time
I think we have been pointed at the Orion Nebula from the beginning. The Brookes Tour ended at Orion where they gave that quote about the Pendant World… the golden chain….
I also think that aside from the quote in the Tour of something that was dear to Brookes the only other thing that can be classed as possibly Miltonian is the left circle in the Garden Axis. But as I pointed out it also falls into the relation to the Orion Nebula. I have tried to see various themes in the things we have identified as relating to Raxxla/Dark Wheel… but the one I keep coming back to is related to early greek philosophy / cosmology
We were given the Dark Wheel missions early on…
The Silent Song of the Spheres: This is a direct reference to the Harmony of the Spheres – often described as an inaudible resonance or harmony that connects the universe … a fundamental pythagorean concept I think often part of the quadrivium of Mathematics, Geometry, Music and Astronomy. One of the notable references to the Harmony of the Spheres is in Platos Republic – The Myth of Er… The harmony is also the golden chain. The earliest reference I know of the Golden Chain is Homer but I think it is also tied to the Pythagorean Ideas of the Harmonies. Plato mentions the golden chain in Theateus 153:
"Homer by “the golden chain” refers to nothing else than the sun, and means that so long as the heavens and the sun go round everything exists and is preserved, among both gods and men, but if the motion should stop, as if bound fast, everything would be destroyed..."
I would argue that Platos Divided Line and Cave Allegory from the Republic are ways of describing the Cosmography from the aspect of the pure forms... the constructs....
There is an idea of the Central Fire which everything revolves around - sometimes this fire is the Sun but often it is described as separate invisible fire- the galactic center?. This central fire idea reminds me alot of the Iranian and Vedic Fire altars .... If you look at later Sassanian Coins you see a Fire Altar - with the flames coming up making a Tetractys - But i digress..
A place that is not a Place: by definition- Utopia. While the name Utopia is derived from Greek it was coined by Thomas More. I do find it funny that it is used to describe Platos “beautiful city” and its inhabitants the Guardians (Elites Guardians - I have pointed out a while back- atleast in structure are set up in a similar fashion to Platos Guardians). In the Republic Plato provides the western world with the template for Utopias. In his Timeaus and Critias he provides us with another popular genre – the lost world… of Atlantis (mentioned in the codex). Something to mention while we are talking about Being or Non-Being (think Hamlet To Be or Not to Be)... is this bit from the Republic:
"They are like those jesters who palter with us in a double sense at banquets,” he replied, “and resemble the children's riddle about the eunuch and his hitting of the bat—with what and as it sat on what they signify that he struck it. For these things too equivocate, and it is impossible to conceive firmly any one of them to be or not to be or both or neither.” “Do you know what to do with them, then?” said I, “and can you find a better place to put them than that midway between existence or essence and the not-to-be? For we shall surely not discover a darker region than not-being"
Platos Republic – Book 5 ( the link has a good footnote explaining the riddle)
- think space-inbetween… the prison?
There is also the fascination with characters who loose their name - Theta7 for example – I think a nod towards the Odyssey and Odysseus’ Outis/Nemo
Door that is also the Key… still playing with that, but Hekate might figure into this as well as the general idea of women as Key Bearers…. (Reminds me of ghostbusters for some reason).. I also suspect This might be a Lovecraftian Reference.... along with another pointer at Orion...
The Myth: To me the obvious cosmography that this is based on is the Myth of Er from the Republic. It along with Homer provided later authors most of the framework from which to construct their visions of the structure of Heaven and Hell and their relationships. I also think this is where we should talk about the Dark Wheel which is essentially the wheel of Fate and the connection to Randomius Factoria… Lady of Fate…. Ananke who also factors in the Myth of Er as well as the Sirens and the Fates….
This is not an attempt to explain everything Raxxla in the context of Greek Myth… But I see within it the basis of what Raxxla is trying to be. I also think that the general themes are more directly related to early Greek ideas rather than later derivations such as Milton - who had a classical education and created his world based upon the plans set forth by earlier writers such as Dante, St Augustine, Virgil and Plato to name a few (a golden chain of a different sort). And while I wouldnt be surprised if there are Miltonian influences - the theme as presented so far is very Pythagorean-Platonic... with of course a few hints of Lovecraft.
As to why Orion – I have been looking for an axis for a long time. For the longest time I wanted it to be North (be it polar or galactic)… and I still havent given up on that. I think atleast what we have been pointed at is Orion and it fits in that it is relatively close to Thargoid Human and Guardian space – also I don’t think Frontier was expecting us to explore as far and fast as we did. Orion is out of the bubble and not too far away… It is also in Thargoid territory because lets face it – the Thargoids are going to be involved.
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I don't have any observations to share on any of the recent discussion, it's mostly beyond my experience/knowledge. Sounds promising, though.
The past few days I have been retreading old ground, trying to take the Dark Wheel toast in a more literal, direct fashion. Like a series of directions/a map, even 'a door that is also a key' (in so much as the way forward is blocked by this riddle, 'unlock' it to proceed).
The Mother of Galaxies can still only be Casseiopeia for me - it's a bit prosaic, perhaps, but I recently read about he signal from a Cobra MkIII in Tionisla - the one about 'The Vain Queen rides a Giraffe that rembers her Daughters Hero'. I think that was related to the Formidine Rift business, but it's clearly describing Casseiopeia again.
"The Parents Grief, the Lovers woe"? I went over to see Marco Qwent today, Engineer up my Cobra MK IV's power plant - it really needs it with all the junk I've wedged into that ship - anyway, I saw he lives on the planet 'Lucifer'.
And then, it must be the Milton talk getting to me, I thought - couldn't Lucifer be the Parent's grief, the Lovers woe?
So I hit up the DSS, mapped the surface. 9 signals found.
8 Human.
1 Other.
I have never seen an 'other' before!
However, it only appeared when I was down on the surface - over the horizon from me, I locked it through the Nav panel - but when I took off again it vanished from HUD and Nav panel. So far re-mapping, re-logging, re-mappping haven't brought it back.
I searched online for more info, but all I could really find is that 'other' signals have turned up elsewhere (a sign I'm not on the rigt track? Probably), and that they seem to be prone to this vanishing behaviour.
So I don't think it's gonna turn out to be anything - but has anyone else ever seen an 'other' type surface signal?
The past few days I have been retreading old ground, trying to take the Dark Wheel toast in a more literal, direct fashion. Like a series of directions/a map, even 'a door that is also a key' (in so much as the way forward is blocked by this riddle, 'unlock' it to proceed).
The Mother of Galaxies can still only be Casseiopeia for me - it's a bit prosaic, perhaps, but I recently read about he signal from a Cobra MkIII in Tionisla - the one about 'The Vain Queen rides a Giraffe that rembers her Daughters Hero'. I think that was related to the Formidine Rift business, but it's clearly describing Casseiopeia again.
"The Parents Grief, the Lovers woe"? I went over to see Marco Qwent today, Engineer up my Cobra MK IV's power plant - it really needs it with all the junk I've wedged into that ship - anyway, I saw he lives on the planet 'Lucifer'.
And then, it must be the Milton talk getting to me, I thought - couldn't Lucifer be the Parent's grief, the Lovers woe?
So I hit up the DSS, mapped the surface. 9 signals found.
8 Human.
1 Other.
I have never seen an 'other' before!
However, it only appeared when I was down on the surface - over the horizon from me, I locked it through the Nav panel - but when I took off again it vanished from HUD and Nav panel. So far re-mapping, re-logging, re-mappping haven't brought it back.
I searched online for more info, but all I could really find is that 'other' signals have turned up elsewhere (a sign I'm not on the rigt track? Probably), and that they seem to be prone to this vanishing behaviour.
So I don't think it's gonna turn out to be anything - but has anyone else ever seen an 'other' type surface signal?
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We don't know who the corps of Elites that supposedly lives on Raxxla are, but they are definitely not the Dark Wheel. The Dark Wheel is trying to find Raxxla. They are getting killed, when they get to close.
TDW are probably still looking, but they will never find it. That right is reserved for players.
On release the only viable mechanic in the game was the POI. Everything was in a POI. A planet that does not show up on scans with a POI in close orbit, would have been the easiest way to implement it. The POI wouldn't even have to contain anything. It could just jump you directly, when you drop in.
The POI has probably been moved to the surface of the planet by now and have some visual components.
Everything about Sirius is suspicious. Both Waypoint and Lucifer are interesting names. Not least when analysing Paradise lost.
The Sirius corporation has several inventions to their name, that would have benefited from a little knowledge of alien tech.
Sirius is also located firmly in the Down direction from Sol / earth.
Though one has to be slightly careful about analysing names inherited from FE2/FFE that way - they may have been incorporated into the puzzle, and they certainly had quite a bit of choice over which FE2/FFE systems and stations to inherit, but they potentially have slightly different standing to ones that first appeared in ED.