What do think is coming to Planet Zoo this month?

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

Only the ibex is endemic to Europe in your list I think? I explicitly said that most species would be found in Europe, only 2-3 wouldn’t be in my suggestion. Very few species are endemic to Europe, so any Europe pack will almost certainly include species from Asia.

Yeah but thats not the point. No one cares that European Animals inhabit western Asia, Europe is litterally a giant Peninsula, it would be weird if they wouldnt, i mean there isnt even a clear line where europe ends and Asia starts. What i and many others are saying, we want a Dlc with Only Animals that also Live in europe. The fact that the eurasian lynx also lives in Northern Asia is great and usefull, but i would want it in that pack, because its an iconic and common zoo animal to us Europeans.

This is the habitat of the Amurleopard. Is it a great animal that i would like to see in the game and some point? Absolutly! But has it anything to do with Europe? Hell no, just charing a Biosphere doesnt make it European.

This map shows the distribution of the wild boar. Lots of Places that arnt Europe, even venturing into different Biospheres, but it still lives in Europe, is a part of our culture and there for qualified to be in a European Pack.

I hope this makes it clear, but no one cares about whats endemic to where when they say they want pack xyz. All they want are iconic animals from that region, no matter where else you can also find them. Thats like saying "Yeah but the Jaguar isnt really endemic to Southamerica, it has also been found in northamerica, there for the south american pack should be the American pack and i demand that we get the northamerican moose in it, eventhough it doesnt have anything to do with southamerica."

 

[ElectricMonk]

Lots

I was responding to a perfucular list that purported to include two species endemic to Europe but only included one… I was just pointing out that the statement was incorrect.
As per my earlier post, I want an 8+1 animal pack including 5-6 species found in Europe. Why do you want to have 4 European species rather than 5-6?

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

Sorry, then i misunderstood. I just dont like the "endemic" discussion of what counts as suitable for a pack. And i honestly would just wait, a northern stepps pack still sounds quite likly, featuring animals from mongolia and the such.
Features with the corsac Fox even another quite common canine in captivity, so im sure frontier wont pass up that chance

 

[avietar]

Yeah but thats not the point. No one cares that European Animals inhabit western Asia, Europe is litterally a giant Peninsula, it would be weird if they wouldnt, i mean there isnt even a clear line where europe ends and Asia starts. What i and many others are saying, we want a Dlc with Only Animals that also Live in europe. The fact that the eurasian lynx also lives in Northern Asia is great and usefull, but i would want it in that pack, because its an iconic and common zoo animal to us Europeans.

This is the habitat of the Amurleopard. Is it a great animal that i would like to see in the game and some point? Absolutly! But has it anything to do with Europe? Hell no, just charing a Biosphere doesnt make it European.
View attachment 262270

This map shows the distribution of the wild boar. Lots of Places that arnt Europe, even venturing into different Biospheres, but it still lives in Europe, is a part of our culture and there for qualified to be in a European Pack.
View attachment 262271

I hope this makes it clear, but no one cares about whats endemic to where when they say they want pack xyz. All they want are iconic animals from that region, no matter where else you can also find them. Thats like saying "Yeah but the Jaguar isnt really endemic to Southamerica, it has also been found in northamerica, there for the south american pack should be the American pack and i demand that we get the northamerican moose in it, eventhough it doesnt have anything to do with southamerica."

Thanks for being more eloquent than me

Also ElectricMonk, Meles meles is the European badger, not Eurasian badger. The Eurasian badger doesn't exist, the name is European badger. And it is absolutely an iconic endemic European species. Their range slightly extends into Arabia, but is that enough to call it a Eurasian species instead of European? I mean, look at this range. If this isn't a beautiful embrace of Europe I don't know what is.

 

[NZFanatic]

but is that enough to call it a Eurasian species instead of European

Yes. By definition if it extends beyond the cultural (because there are no real physical) boundaries of Europe, it becomes Eurasian.

I don't really know what this discussion is about to be frank but I thought I'd point that out. It still counts as a European species, because it lives in Europe, but that doesn't mean it isn't also an Asian species. Europe has very little "endemic" wildlife, really, but in terms of a DLC I don't think "endemic" really matters as much as "strongly associated with" (though, most of my picks would be closer to endemic by pure chance - Alpine ibex, Iberian lynx, European fallow deer, for example).

 

[ElectricMonk]

Their range slightly extends into Arabia, but is that enough to call it a Eurasian species instead of European? I mean, look at this range. If this isn't a beautiful embrace of Europe I don't know what is.

the definition of endemic is that it is only found in one region and not any others. I.e. the badger is not endemic to Europe. So, yes, if it were present in Arabia outside Europe that would 100% be enough to say it’s not endemic to Europe. In fact though, as your map shows, it isn’t present in Arabia, but is in the Middle East as Far East as Mesopotamia.

 

[ElectricMonk]

. Europe has very little "endemic" wildlife, really, but in terms of a DLC I don't think "endemic" really matters as much as "strongly associated with"

100% agree. I was just pointing out that another poster’s comment that the badger was endemic to Europe was wrong. I would absolutely include the badger in a Europe or or Eurasia DLC.

 

[Antimony96]

I've been convinced to want a European pack in theory but I don't know if Frontier would do it. Ultimately, they're a company which wants to make money, and it's hard to see any of the heavily-requested European animals (fallow deer, lynx, red fox, etc.) being an effective marketing tool like the penguins of the Aquatic pack, the meerkats of the Africa pack, etc.--things that grab the attention of casual players. Granted the SEA pack might have had the same issue but it was still "exotic" from the perspective of a primarily Western playerbase.

This doesn't preclude European animals being added to the game even if not in a European pack in particular--I could easily see the lynx in a feline pack, for instance.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

I also don't care about endemic for an european pack, but more about iconic. That's why I would add the moose in an european pack and not in a north america pack. Moose are highly iconic to sweden and other scandinavian regions and is found in every "Tierpark" here (zoo that specialize more in european animals and is usually imbeded in quite untouched nature).

There are enough other american animals I would put in spot of the moose

 

[Swjosdotschka]

I've been convinced to want a European pack in theory but I don't know if Frontier would do it. Ultimately, they're a company which wants to make money, and it's hard to see any of the heavily-requested European animals (fallow deer, lynx, red fox, etc.) being an effective marketing tool like the penguins of the Aquatic pack, the meerkats of the Africa pack, etc.--things that grab the attention of casual players. Granted the SEA pack might have had the same issue but it was still "exotic" from the perspective of a primarily Western playerbase.

This doesn't preclude European animals being added to the game even if not in a European pack in particular--I could easily see the lynx in a feline pack, for instance.

Planet Zoo has a huge european player base and europe a big zoo history. There would be more than enough people buying a european pack. The "western player base" consists of more than the US. Shocking, I know. Europe is not a side note.

 

[avietar]

100% agree. I was just pointing out that another poster’s comment that the badger was endemic to Europe was wrong. I would absolutely include the badger in a Europe or or Eurasia DLC.

You can use my username

And sorry for my incorrect topography and incorrect use of the word endemic.

I'll still consider the European badger a European species. It's a staple of Euro wildlife and has a long history in European culture and lore.

The discussion is nitpicky for sure. It arised mainly because people like myself would like European animals in the game, staples of European wildlife. So when I saw a list of a potential 'Eurasian' pack with almost entirely Asian animals, that was supposed to represent Europe because there would be no specific EU continent pack, I felt triggered.

Europa has awesome wildlife, and is as much deserving of a specific pack as all the other continents. I live here, I love European wildlife. I want that in the game, too. And it makes me sad that European animals in general seem underappreciated on the forums.

 

[markun]

I also don't care about endemic for an european pack, but more about iconic. That's why I would add the moose in an european pack and not in a north america pack. Moose are highly iconic to sweden and other scandinavian regions and is found in every "Tierpark" here (zoo that specialize more in european animals and is usually imbeded in quite untouched nature).

There are enough other american animals I would put in spot of the moose

I’ve seen a few posts claiming that they won’t include the moose (elk) as they are “so rare and hard to keep in captivity”. But as you point out, that really isn’t the case in Europe where they can be seen at some 130 collections/facilities ranging from city zoos to rural wildlife parks and even specialised moose parks.

 

[ElectricMonk]

You can use my username

And sorry for my incorrect topography and incorrect use of the word endemic.

I'll still consider the European badger a European species. It's a staple of Euro wildlife and has a long history in European culture and lore.

The discussion is nitpicky for sure. It arised mainly because people like myself would like European animals in the game, staples of European wildlife. So when I saw a list of a potential 'Eurasian' pack with almost entirely Asian animals, that was supposed to represent Europe because there would be no specific EU continent pack, I felt triggered.

Europa has awesome wildlife, and is as much deserving of a specific pack as all the other continents. I live here, I love European wildlife. I want that in the game, too. And it makes me sad that European animals in general seem underappreciated on the forums.

i agree…. I asked earlier, and repeat here: Why do you want 4 European species +1+ theme in a Europe pack rather than 5-6 European species but no theme in a 8+1 Eurasia animal pack? Where did you see the list with mostly Asian animals? I didn’t see one.

 

[ElectricMonk]

I also don't care about endemic for an european pack, but more about iconic. That's why I would add the moose in an european pack and not in a north america pack. Moose are highly iconic to sweden and other scandinavian regions and is found in every "Tierpark" here (zoo that specialize more in european animals and is usually imbeded in quite untouched nature).

There are enough other american animals I would put in spot of the moose

As an outsider (I’m Australian) I’d consider the moose at least as iconic to North America as Scandinavia - probably more so. If I think moose I tend to think of Canada not Norway.

 

[Antimony96]

Planet Zoo has a huge european player base and europe a big zoo history. There would be more than enough people buying a european pack. The "western player base" consists of more than the US. Shocking, I know. Europe is not a side note.

I'm well aware of the historical importance of European zoos like Antwerp, London, or Berlin--yet all these zoos became famous for their exotic collections, no?

I'm all for fallow deer, lynx, badgers, etc.--I just don't know which European animal would be as well-positioned to headline a DLC pack as a penguin or meerkat. Frontier has their bottom line to be concerned about.

 

[markun]

I'm well aware of the historical importance of European zoos like Antwerp, London, or Berlin--yet all these zoos became famous for their exotic collections, no?

I'm all for fallow deer, lynx, badgers, etc.--I just don't know which European animal would be as well-positioned to headline a DLC pack as a penguin or meerkat. Frontier has their bottom line to be concerned about.

I don’t have access to my books at the moment but a quick look at 19th and early 20th century maps of these zoos online (which aren’t especially detailed) shows enclosures for fallow deer, mouflon, foxes, bears, wolves, chamois, wisents, deer in general, otters and more.

Basel Zoo was actually started as a zoo focussing on European/Alpine species. It was immediately hugely popular despite this limited focus. According to Wikipedia, in its opening year the zoo had 62,000 visitors, even though the city of Basel had only 50,000 inhabitants.

Zootierliste tells us that, for example, London Zoo had Alpine ibex from 1862, chamois from 1831, fallow deer from 1863, wild boar from 1851. I could go on.

I would argue that the need for a single species to headline a pack is speculation on your part, as is the financial riskiness of producing a European DLC. Nonetheless I think an elk (moose), ibex or lynx could be just as charismatic as a penguin or meerkat and I would not be dismissive of such a DLC’s potential.

 

[Antimony96]

I stand at least partly corrected on the popularity of European zoo animals in historic zoos (though I think the first animal to really blow up in popularity at the London Zoo was their hippopotamus?).

I don't have any hard facts on how Frontier treats "headline" animals (though every banner animal on their DLC has been a big-ticket name except arguably the sun bear for Southeast Asia). The moose/elk would probably be the best fit for such a role.

 

[Cynogale bennettii II]

Just to briefly go back to the topic of the European badger, the range map used by avietar is actually a bit out of date - the badgers living in southwest Asia and the Caucasus Mountains are almost certainly their own species (the Southwest Asian badger Meles canescens), which would mean that the actual European badger (the species I imagine most of the people here think about when imagining a 'Eurasian badger') is a true European endemic.

 

[NZFanatic]

I'm well aware of the historical importance of European zoos like Antwerp, London, or Berlin--yet all these zoos became famous for their exotic collections, no?

I'm all for fallow deer, lynx, badgers, etc.--I just don't know which European animal would be as well-positioned to headline a DLC pack as a penguin or meerkat. Frontier has their bottom line to be concerned about.

The ibex would certainly be the headliner. The Alpine ibex is definitely iconic for its family and was also in both Zoo Tycoon titles, so a lot of casual players will remember it instantly.

 

[ElectricMonk]

Just to briefly go back to the topic of the European badger, the range map used by avietar is actually a bit out of date - the badgers living in southwest Asia and the Caucasus Mountains are almost certainly their own species (the Southwest Asian badger Meles canescens), which would mean that the actual European badger (the species I imagine most of the people here think about when imagining a 'Eurasian badger') is a true European endemic.

Interesting and cool! I stand corrected,… the distinction between species and subspecies is often a fine one. Is it universally agreed or disputed?