So. What's your suggestion for an external view that doesn't affect gameplay?
Take your time, I'll wait.
External View [A definitive discussion]
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So. What's your suggestion for an external view that doesn't affect gameplay?
Take your time, I'll wait.
Heres one for the modders ...
Lets have a purchasable Virtual Reality Computer (VRC) in the game. Just like current VR devices, this will effectively block out any view (like the cockpit view) while you are using it, and replace it with any other view (like the external view). This maintains realism by explaining precisely how and why you are getting an external view without a cockpit frame.
Cams, ranging from nano to astronomical, can be put anywhere by anyone and transmit to those who are authorized to view via their VRC. Authorisation levels may include military, public, private, company, etc.
Public cams such as those attached to all stations, or capital trading ships can either be free to access to charge a small fee to use. They can be peppered with marketing ads - a source of income for their creators (ie FD).
Bounty hunters can deploy cams onto target ships to assist them in their tracking requirements. Pirates can purchase modified VRC to hack into secure cams. Miners can deploy private cams on various asteroid fields to assess their resources. Explorers can deploy cams to various systems to assist them in scouting. Possibilities are immense and add to the richness of the game.
During actual combat;
1. If a cam is deployed from a moving ship, the cam keeps moving in that direction and speed. Fairly useless in a combat scenario where many manouvers and changes of direction are occuring.
2. There are jamming devices purchasable which can inhibit a VRC receiving signals in a general area.
3. During outfitting, a ship can install permanent cams on its own hull, such as a rear cam, which cannot be jammed. These can be used during combat.
A modified HUD can be overlay on any cam display, so if a player wanted to, they could pilot the ship entirely from the VRC linked to a outfitted hull cam - or they could not - its their choice.
If authorised, it will also be possible for others to patch into the hull cams from other ships to view battles or assist in team orientated actions.
Oh well, we can always dream.
Lets have a purchasable Virtual Reality Computer (VRC) in the game. Just like current VR devices, this will effectively block out any view (like the cockpit view) while you are using it, and replace it with any other view (like the external view). This maintains realism by explaining precisely how and why you are getting an external view without a cockpit frame.
Cams, ranging from nano to astronomical, can be put anywhere by anyone and transmit to those who are authorized to view via their VRC. Authorisation levels may include military, public, private, company, etc.
Public cams such as those attached to all stations, or capital trading ships can either be free to access to charge a small fee to use. They can be peppered with marketing ads - a source of income for their creators (ie FD).
Bounty hunters can deploy cams onto target ships to assist them in their tracking requirements. Pirates can purchase modified VRC to hack into secure cams. Miners can deploy private cams on various asteroid fields to assess their resources. Explorers can deploy cams to various systems to assist them in scouting. Possibilities are immense and add to the richness of the game.
During actual combat;
1. If a cam is deployed from a moving ship, the cam keeps moving in that direction and speed. Fairly useless in a combat scenario where many manouvers and changes of direction are occuring.
2. There are jamming devices purchasable which can inhibit a VRC receiving signals in a general area.
3. During outfitting, a ship can install permanent cams on its own hull, such as a rear cam, which cannot be jammed. These can be used during combat.
A modified HUD can be overlay on any cam display, so if a player wanted to, they could pilot the ship entirely from the VRC linked to a outfitted hull cam - or they could not - its their choice.
If authorised, it will also be possible for others to patch into the hull cams from other ships to view battles or assist in team orientated actions.
Oh well, we can always dream.
If I'm playing solo offline (or even online), I can see no gameplay problem with a pause mode where I can peruse the ship from an external camera and take screenies to my heart's content.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
ok I found this vid and it is more for the rift thread, however I think it has a place here.
I know some on here are happy with a nerfed outside view and so these thoughts are not aimed at them, but more to people like neoracer who want (from what i can tell) completely limitless 3rd person view.
Cockpit view
Really hard, virtually no field of view (but wow tell me it doesnt look great, I cant wait to try that out!!!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75f12kDE2Pk#t=92
external view, huge field of view, and pretty much see everyone!.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9rZoeIiv-M
now dont get me wrong, I love warthunder, but you HAVE to play it in 3rd person mode otherwise you get owned. (unless you go full sim then it forces the issue kind of like ED)
but the point is, in plane or out of plane are both completely, incomparable game experiences, but the 3rd person view is by far the more powerful view.
therefore, if FD want the game to be from the commanders eyes it has to be forced otherwise everyone will be forced to go 3rd person.
If the (thankfully large minority in this poll) people who want 3rd person combat get their way, the game will have to be played like the bottom warthunder vid, where I I personally think the top one is way more exciting.
I know some on here are happy with a nerfed outside view and so these thoughts are not aimed at them, but more to people like neoracer who want (from what i can tell) completely limitless 3rd person view.
Cockpit view
Really hard, virtually no field of view (but wow tell me it doesnt look great, I cant wait to try that out!!!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75f12kDE2Pk#t=92
external view, huge field of view, and pretty much see everyone!.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9rZoeIiv-M
now dont get me wrong, I love warthunder, but you HAVE to play it in 3rd person mode otherwise you get owned. (unless you go full sim then it forces the issue kind of like ED)
but the point is, in plane or out of plane are both completely, incomparable game experiences, but the 3rd person view is by far the more powerful view.
therefore, if FD want the game to be from the commanders eyes it has to be forced otherwise everyone will be forced to go 3rd person.
If the (thankfully large minority in this poll) people who want 3rd person combat get their way, the game will have to be played like the bottom warthunder vid, where I I personally think the top one is way more exciting.
That does demonstrate how an external view which is not nerfed means cockpit view gets typically owned by it. Therefore forcing anyone wishing to be competitive to use it.
So I'm sure we can imagine how any proposed drone view would need to ensure it doesn't introduce this sort of problem. I'd imagine just no hud/sights and a slower panning around would be the first sort of steps.
^^ I'd say the problem with that is people (I suspect) want to enjoy the view of what's going on around them too (at that precise moment), not just their ship.
eg: Let's say you have auto docking for your ship. How would you rather spend that minute it takes your ship to dock? Looking out of the cockpit, or flicking to an external view and looking around at the other ships along side, and the interior of the space station etc etc?
Or you find you're self flying along next to a couple of Anacondas with strange markings as you're docking. Fly around and try and see them from cockpit view? Or simply flick into external view to get a better view?
eg: Let's say you have auto docking for your ship. How would you rather spend that minute it takes your ship to dock? Looking out of the cockpit, or flicking to an external view and looking around at the other ships along side, and the interior of the space station etc etc?
Or you find you're self flying along next to a couple of Anacondas with strange markings as you're docking. Fly around and try and see them from cockpit view? Or simply flick into external view to get a better view?
True, but my idea was a compromise for the "no external view, period" crowd, one that I could very well live with.
I don't understand what difference it makes to those who feel there shouldn't be a third person view, other than to ruin the enjoyment of those who feel there should be.
If you don't want to use it. don't, it really is that simple.
Unless of course you feel that the 3rd party view offers some form of advantage?
If you don't want to use it. don't, it really is that simple.
Unless of course you feel that the 3rd party view offers some form of advantage?
By 3rd party view I'll assume you mean external view?
The biggest issue some people have with an external view (ignoring immersion issues) is how - and this can be seen in many other games - it gives an unfair advantage over a cockpit/first person view.
If you look at Mad Mike's post about 6 up, his two youtube videos show this nicely - http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showpost.php?p=333076&postcount=744
If we do get any sort of external view, it will be a very toned down experience I suspect, ensured not to compete with the (main) cockpit experience.
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An external camera that is very slowly moveable around your ship with a 2 second delay between activating and deactivating.
Its not going to give you any advantage during combat.
Out of combat I don't see it would give any advantage either as you wont be able to zoom out very far.
yes you could look behind, but we should be able to do that anyway.
Perfect for taking screenshots of your ship with that beautiful planetary transit you spotted in the background.
Its not going to give you any advantage during combat.
Out of combat I don't see it would give any advantage either as you wont be able to zoom out very far.
yes you could look behind, but we should be able to do that anyway.
Perfect for taking screenshots of your ship with that beautiful planetary transit you spotted in the background.
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We've been through all this, believe me
Personally I think a set of limitations along the lines you've proposed (look in the OP) would nerf external view enough. Others disagree
We'll just need to see what FD make of the matter. Hopefully they'll give us some sort of drone that gives us an external view that fits the bill. Fingers crossed!
We've been through all this
Personally I think a set of limitations along the lines you've proposed (look in the OP) would nerf external view enough. Others disagree
We'll just need to see what FD make of the matter. Hopefully they'll give us some sort of drone that gives us an external view that fits the bill. Fingers crossed!
yes, I was replying to to the question asked a several posts up , 'what do you propose?'
Sorry! My bad! Maybe use "quote" to help clarify.
Here is a short rant of shorts concerning third person view in the e:d universe.
Being able to detach yourself from the cockpit and view your ship from an external fixed or flexible camera point carries two major and eventually game-breaking disadvantages.
1. It destroys immersion, realism and fluidity of gameplay by decoupling the player from its avatar and giving a god-mode view on the universe.
2. It inadvertently and crucially affects a great number of game mechanics, like dog-fighting, the stealth aspect of the game and docking...for starters. The amount of added situational awareness when coupled with the potential to abuse the camera mechanic via rapid view hopping is surely detrimental to the game.
Here is a nice video that compounds on the problem at hand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7zoVIsIT2A
Now...having said that.
If you can detach the above disadvantages from the mechanic, there are a couple of situations where using an external view would be advantageous to gameplay. Here are three that I can think of.
1. Damage control
Being able to view the state of your damaged hull would be very handy, both from a game design standpoint (using your UI to ascertain the extent of damage vs what the enemy can see with their eyes) and due to the heavy amount of work dedicated to damage states and the visual representation of wear and tear in the game.
2. Rule of "kewl"
Being able to admire your ship in the e:d universe is not as shallow as it seems. I know that this can sound juvenile, bear with me. One might think that such a reason would serve no purpose at all other than a graphical no-content tidbit, but I really believe that it can help young players to get more excited in the game, and it would also provide a mild but measurable incentive for players to strive for more ship hulls. Thus, the vile occupation of Ship spinning was, is and will remain a demonstratively positive feature for player retention. Especially with the amount of love, care and customization FD is giving to the hulls.
3. Cosmetic overhaul and modification/customization
Well, this is a weird one. On one hand, there is much talk about ship cosmetic customization, via paint jobs, skins, different options like cockpits, etc. This also is an excellent category for microtransactions, with players demonstrating their willingness to further support the game monetarily by gaining an opportunity to customize and personalize their ship (and in the future, their avatar too). I think that its impossible though to promote the feature properly without the players having the opportunity to even view the changes. With the current mechanics at hand, the only place that players would be able to see the changes they do to their ships would be via static cameras when docked.
Being able to detach yourself from the cockpit and view your ship from an external fixed or flexible camera point carries two major and eventually game-breaking disadvantages.
1. It destroys immersion, realism and fluidity of gameplay by decoupling the player from its avatar and giving a god-mode view on the universe.
2. It inadvertently and crucially affects a great number of game mechanics, like dog-fighting, the stealth aspect of the game and docking...for starters. The amount of added situational awareness when coupled with the potential to abuse the camera mechanic via rapid view hopping is surely detrimental to the game.
Here is a nice video that compounds on the problem at hand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7zoVIsIT2A
Now...having said that.
If you can detach the above disadvantages from the mechanic, there are a couple of situations where using an external view would be advantageous to gameplay. Here are three that I can think of.
1. Damage control
Being able to view the state of your damaged hull would be very handy, both from a game design standpoint (using your UI to ascertain the extent of damage vs what the enemy can see with their eyes) and due to the heavy amount of work dedicated to damage states and the visual representation of wear and tear in the game.
2. Rule of "kewl"
Being able to admire your ship in the e:d universe is not as shallow as it seems. I know that this can sound juvenile, bear with me. One might think that such a reason would serve no purpose at all other than a graphical no-content tidbit, but I really believe that it can help young players to get more excited in the game, and it would also provide a mild but measurable incentive for players to strive for more ship hulls. Thus, the vile occupation of Ship spinning was, is and will remain a demonstratively positive feature for player retention. Especially with the amount of love, care and customization FD is giving to the hulls.
3. Cosmetic overhaul and modification/customization
Well, this is a weird one. On one hand, there is much talk about ship cosmetic customization, via paint jobs, skins, different options like cockpits, etc. This also is an excellent category for microtransactions, with players demonstrating their willingness to further support the game monetarily by gaining an opportunity to customize and personalize their ship (and in the future, their avatar too). I think that its impossible though to promote the feature properly without the players having the opportunity to even view the changes. With the current mechanics at hand, the only place that players would be able to see the changes they do to their ships would be via static cameras when docked.
...And of course; whatever is decided should come some time after the main release of the game. This I don't believe can be given the term 'feature creep'; but should come after release.
Many/all of these are carefully covered in the original post?
1) It destroys immersion. See Common Arguments: It will break immersion
2) It inadvertently and crucially affects a great number of game. See Proposed Behaviour & Limitations
It's also interesting when people use pictures & videos to show how the FOV in ED will be abused by a potential external view, they use a first person shooter. This clearly is a poor comparison. A FPS has walls and building 1 foot infront of the player. Elite Dangers generally has space (literally). The usual suggestion is an asteroid will be abused, but clearly even this is an exception rather than a rule.
In summary, if we do get an external view, I suspect it will be in the form of a deployable drone (to keep it real world) which will have enough limitations to counter act any advnantage is might otherwise give.
I'm sure we all want to be able to see our ships like this as long as it does't compromise gameplay - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBSfe7YYzE0
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