New upgrade System - "Your time is valueable"- is a pure grind and waste of everyones time

[Dutchman141]

The least they could do is get rid of the seperate mats traders and give the engineers that job.
That way you could trade your mats at the place where you need them and you won't have to fly across half the bubble just to switch a couple mats for another.

Just a thought.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Sure, like people can go to Colonia in a few hours and go from sidey to conda in an afternoon. But it isnt the design goal, and it isnt supposed to be 'casually doable'.

But I agree that the developers intention is that players keep engineering their ship(s) for a long time.

But I don't think that the new system will result in that "vision", to me it looks more like the new system turns engineering into "casually doable".
The 100 items per material basically removes the need to decide what materials to keep allowing to gather everything while casually playing the game. Materials a player doesn't have can be traded, removing a lot of the painful search for "unobtainable stuff".
Guaranteed improvements, easy to buy special effects that stay on the module.

It will be interesting to see how this all works in the beta and how the various values get adjusted by FDev.

 

[Viking84]

The same way we do now. It is basically no different for us experienced players. No more grind then what is already there. I am hoping though that the mechanics for material acquisition gets much better in the Q4 update as they can be boring, especially if you grind them out.

At the very least it will involve flying around to all the relevant material traders, which the devs in their never ending search for ways to make the game less enjoyable have decided not to combine into one trading post available at the engineers themselves...

The least they could do is get rid of the seperate mats traders and give the engineers that job.
That way you could trade your mats at the place where you need them and you won't have to fly across half the bubble just to switch a couple mats for another.

Just a thought.

Ninja'd

 

[Ian Skippy]

But I agree that the developers intention is that players keep engineering their ship(s) for a long time.

But I don't think that the new system will result in that "vision", to me it looks more like the new system turns engineering into "casually doable".
The 100 items per material basically removes the need to decide what materials to keep allowing to gather everything while casually playing the game. Materials a player doesn't have can be traded, removing a lot of the painful search for "unobtainable stuff".
Guaranteed improvements, easy to buy special effects that stay on the module.

It will be interesting to see how this all works in the beta and how the various values get adjusted by FDev.

What I will do is:

1) Grab a g1 mod + special.
2) Pin.
3) Do the rest later and elsewhere.

If you already unlocked all engineers, and grabbed the special you want, there doesnt appear to be a reason to actually visit the engineer. So you can get started, even if you dont have whatever thingy you lack for your G5 rolls. And you can then keep upgrading your G5s forever while just playing the game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

3:1 applies to current G5 too...
Where are you getting those assumptions from?
I watched the stream and came away with a very different take.

What do you mean by 3:1 G5. Are you talking about rolls, or materials trader?

If rolls, then a G5 is guaranteed to be better then a G4 resulting in a good roll yes. To get exceptional or god like, that will require more, but potentially far less then is current due to the RNG.

Regarding the Broker, you can Trade one Grade 5 to three Grade 4's.

Not too sure what you mean.

 

[bigity]

Yes, if only thing you want is G5.

I just want some sweet upgrades, thank you.

If you never interact with hostile CMDRs, G1-G4 may suit you. Some of us, want max upgrades because we have to occasionally negotiate with other power play factions, random folks, or even *gasp* attack people.

At the very least it will involve flying around to all the relevant material traders, which the devs in their never ending search for ways to make the game less enjoyable have decided not to combine into one trading post available at the engineers themselves...



Ninja'd

Can't give us anything without some kind of time sink built in At least we got it.

 

[Martian Successor]

Engineers is not G5 shop.

Perhaps but it should be the player's choice to use it as a G5 shop or not, they earn the right to do so when they level up their engineer to grade 5 rep. The new system robs players of that choice and forces us down a narrow path from which we cannot deviate. The whole point of ED is to give players more choices, not less so I can totally understand why people don't like this particular aspect of the new engineers.

I mean for example, why would you ever want anything less than a G5 mod for FSD jump range? You would always want to go for the maximum jump distance you could possibly get, anything else is a total waste of time and materials. Yet the new system will force you to waste your time and materials to pointlessly go through G1, G2, G3 and G4, all of these upgrades that you know are a waste of your time because you will throw them all away as soon as you get the G5 upgrade. And to top it all off the new system requires you to do 5 rolls in order to move up a grade whereas the current one only requires 3 rolls.

It's pretty bad when you truly sit back and look at it. This particular part of the new engineers is a huge negative that really sours all of the potential positives the system could bring.

 

[Martian Successor]

What I will do is:

1) Grab a g1 mod + special.
2) Pin.
3) Do the rest later and elsewhere.

If you already unlocked all engineers, and grabbed the special you want, there doesnt appear to be a reason to actually visit the engineer. So you can get started, even if you dont have whatever thingy you lack for your G5 rolls. And you can then keep upgrading your G5s forever while just playing the game.

After watching the stream I was left with the impression that any special effect you put on a mod will be removed when you upgrade the same module again. Thus you would only want to put the special effect on at the very end of the upgrade process, i.e. maxed out G5, like the current system.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

At the very least it will involve flying around to all the relevant material traders, which the devs in their never ending search for ways to make the game less enjoyable have decided not to combine into one trading post available at the engineers themselves...

True, but if you don't like flying your ships, then you bought the wrong game. But as these traders are scattered all over the place, it should be easy to combine it with a bit of trade using those lovely new tools or a mission of some kind.

You see, what I do when I play and want to engineer, I try to combine it with a mission. For example if I need some materials on a planet I try to combine that with a planetary mission.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

After watching the stream I was left with the impression that any special effect you put on a mod will be removed when you upgrade the same module again. Thus you would only want to put the special effect on at the very end of the upgrade process, i.e. maxed out G5, like the current system.

Nope. The special effect is seperate to the roll, you keep you special mod until you want to get rid of it.

 

[bigity]

After watching the stream I was left with the impression that any special effect you put on a mod will be removed when you upgrade the same module again. Thus you would only want to put the special effect on at the very end of the upgrade process, i.e. maxed out G5, like the current system.

The summaries I have read seem to indicate a special effect will stay in place with subsequent upgrades.

 

[Martian Successor]

Nope. The special effect is seperate to the roll, you keep you special mod until you want to get rid of it.

The summaries I have read seem to indicate a special effect will stay in place with subsequent upgrades.

That's cool. Is there any word on how secondary effects will be bought? Like will we have to choose between either a special weapon effect or a secondary effect or can we have both?

 

[Muetdhiver]

Too be very frank, I do think engineers would have been much better of with
a single upgrade level giving set bonus/malus with the experimental system they are adding now.

 

[bigity]

That's cool. Is there any word on how secondary effects will be bought? Like will we have to choose between either a special weapon effect or a secondary effect or can we have both?

Straight material cost.

5x Y material
3x Z material
etc

From my understanding, secondaries will replace the special effects on weapons and will be added to other modules (replacing stuff like extra optimal mass on drives). Don't recall an example of a new one for a non-weapon module though

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Too be very frank, I do think engineers would have been much better of with
a single upgrade level giving set bonus/malus with the experimental system they are adding now.

I certainly can think of better systems, but I much prefer the new to the old. One of my G5 FSD extended range mods will get an immediate boost when I convert it to the top range of a G4.

 

[Ian Skippy]

After watching the stream I was left with the impression that any special effect you put on a mod will be removed when you upgrade the same module again. Thus you would only want to put the special effect on at the very end of the upgrade process, i.e. maxed out G5, like the current system.

That's cool. Is there any word on how secondary effects will be bought? Like will we have to choose between either a special weapon effect or a secondary effect or can we have both?

Specials stay after upgrading. Secondaries are now a series of specials, so you chose between the current secondaries and specials. To compensate the basic blueprints are buffed. You pay with a fixed number of materials, different for each effect.

 

[Shanaeri]

It does seem that if you are a "maxer" the new system is better, but if you are a "that'll do-er" you are worse off.

The issue it seems is maxers have their god rolls and are keeping them, and the "that'll do-ers" have seen how it will affect them. Which is why we have the mess we have right now.

So how about this as a suggestion. you can jump straight to grade 5 BUT the roll will be limited to demi-god status. If you want a God roll you'll need to 1-5 it?

 

[Deleted member 110222]

It does seem that if you are a "maxer" the new system is better, but if you are a "that'll do-er" you are worse off.

The issue it seems is maxers have their god rolls and are keeping them, and the "that'll do-ers" have seen how it will affect them. Which is why we have the mess we have right now.

So how about this as a suggestion. you can jump straight to grade 5 BUT the roll will be limited to demi-god status. If you want a God roll you'll need to 1-5 it?

I find this argument confusing. Frontier have made it much, much easier to be a "maxer". Work now equals guaranteed rewards.

Doesn't everyone actually want that top of the line FSD? I know this new system means I can seriously pursue it now.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I find this argument confusing. Frontier have made it much, much easier to be a "maxer". Work now equals guaranteed rewards.

Doesn't everyone actually want that top of the line FSD? I know this new system means I can seriously pursue it now.

No, why max something out when a mid range result is way less effort and jsut does as well?

Oh wait - it's actually more work now. Too bad.

 

[wrmiller]

Tried watching the livestream, but quickly lost patience. It was obvious that there was no well thought out presentation, and it appeared that the gist of the ramblings were about whatever these guys could think of or remember at that particular moment. Right. Professional is not a word that comes to mind, unfortunately.

So a guy who mumbles/rambles a lot, wears a top hat(?) and a worm on his shoulder is the architect for this game and the recent changes to it? If true, this explains a lot. I almost spit coffee all over my computer/workbench when that one guy says something like 'your time is valuable and this isn't a grind' regarding their changes to the engineers. Just wow...

my hopes for the future of this game were just ganked. Badly. But at least I have some pretty planets to amuse myself with for a bit. Good thing I already have the ships I want to keep though.

Now it's time to buy and engineer what modules I think I may want for the near future. Good thing I only have four ships I want to keep.