ED and the Oculus Rift DK1 Discussion Thread

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I tried to simulate Track IR in my mind but I think it's not very natural for your brains to make a head-movement while your eyes focus-sing on one point (your screen).

It's a cool device though. Instead of being used in games it could be used to trigger people (or events) who have for example retardation (mentally and/or motoric).

You must've seen this Youtube clip before. It's world famous. 10 Million views:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

I'm sure it'll be bad for your eyes. After all, stereoscopic images are bad for your eyes. It does look good though.

Not a lot of people own proper head tracking equipment but there'll be lots of people like me who have Wiimotes. I think I've just thought of another feature I'd like to see in Elite. :)
 
Star Citizen will be supporting Occulus Rift although not sure about launch.

I really hope Elite: Dangeroous does. It would be quite disappointing if they don't go down that path.

There is already footage on youtube of someone using OR to play an Elite/SC type space sim and they were loving it.
 
Be careful out there

Sooo I'm just thinking, the only times I have come across VR is in films/books and the only ones that spring to mind are:

This Other Eden (novelist gets killed while immersed in VR game)

Lawnmower Man (becomes a homicidal megalomaniac)

Just sayin' ;)
 
Star Citizen will be supporting Occulus Rift although not sure about launch.

I really hope Elite: Dangeroous does. It would be quite disappointing if they don't go down that path.

There is already footage on youtube of someone using OR to play an Elite/SC type space sim and they were loving it.

Are you thinking about EVR? A spin from the Eve series?
Yeah that looked awesome at e3 this year :D
 

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
I guess I just don't understand how Oculus Rift is better than Track IR. It literally looks like Track IR with 3D thrown in for good measure. :rolleyes:

Hated Track IR, so I'll probably pass on Oculus.

They are profoundly different experiences.

If you've ever flown a flight simulator, especially in a surround/tripleheaded configuration, but even with just a single monitor, TrackIR is *essential*. It's that good.

The Rift is a totally different experience. It brings in issues of scale, functionality, interation and immersion which the TrackIR solution doesn't hold a candle to, but yet can better in certain respects.

Again - the Rift is that good, but it's a different ball game to a TrackIR.

If E: D supports both, I'll be using both - when I want fidelity with 5040x1050+ and a huge expanse of view, I'll be using TrackIR with 3 monitors.

When I want an incredibly intimate experience when I'm actually *there*, I'll be using the Rift.

The developer kit isn't where it's at true - but the window it opens on gaming experiences, is profound. (So far my favourite is the VRCinema app - I much prefer to watch movies in the Rift than on a monitor). I'm using one at work to create virtual oil and gas installations whereby you can look at any given piece of equipment, and get various construction information about it - it's incredibly powerful over traditional methods.

The motion sickness which the Rift can induce should not be dismissed either - strafing is what does it for me - lateral movement, with no vestibular feedback is really really weird. It's much reduced in a cockpit environment, but the cockpits almost need to be designed with it in mind (if not partnership) - traditional cockpit environments don't work well in the Rift either due to scaling, or aesthetic reasons.
 
They are profoundly different experiences.

If you've ever flown a flight simulator, especially in a surround/tripleheaded configuration, but even with just a single monitor, TrackIR is *essential*. It's that good.

The Rift is a totally different experience. It brings in issues of scale, functionality, interation and immersion which the TrackIR solution doesn't hold a candle to, but yet can better in certain respects.

Again - the Rift is that good, but it's a different ball game to a TrackIR.

If E: D supports both, I'll be using both - when I want fidelity with 5040x1050+ and a huge expanse of view, I'll be using TrackIR with 3 monitors.

When I want an incredibly intimate experience when I'm actually *there*, I'll be using the Rift.

The developer kit isn't where it's at true - but the window it opens on gaming experiences, is profound. (So far my favourite is the VRCinema app - I much prefer to watch movies in the Rift than on a monitor). I'm using one at work to create virtual oil and gas installations whereby you can look at any given piece of equipment, and get various construction information about it - it's incredibly powerful over traditional methods.

The motion sickness which the Rift can induce should not be dismissed either - strafing is what does it for me - lateral movement, with no vestibular feedback is really really weird. It's much reduced in a cockpit environment, but the cockpits almost need to be designed with it in mind (if not partnership) - traditional cockpit environments don't work well in the Rift either due to scaling, or aesthetic reasons.

So Slopey you have first hands on an Oculus Rift VR set. And you use it to develop ideas for gas and oil installations. Its a developers kit and it seems you like it. Do you think this will be awesome for ED with proper coding and a cockpit that is made strictly for use with the Oculus Rift? And is it possible we can see games using this technology within one years time?

I wonder what the team at Frontier thinks about this? I would guess DB would see this as an awesome oportunity to really immerse people into the Elite Universe and set a high standard for the future. But I guess it will be alot of work with coding and implementation.
 

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
Yeah - EVR looks really good. DarkField/First law are good too - plenty of indie Unity based space simulators popping up on the Oculus Dev forums at the moment.

@W4rSkull - is it the future of gaming? Perhaps. But not with this generation of tech, and it needs some killer games from established development houses. Even the Oculus HD prototype, I'm not sure if it'll be enough to tip it over the edge or not.

But for us developers, it's a fantastic playground! :)

If they can get ubiquitous support in most games, and if consoles support it - it'll go mainstream, no doubt. Hardware wise, it could do with being more portable, and the holy grail would be a version which powers itself off the device, so there's no messing around with power cables/usb/hdmi/dvi.

I still think it's 2-3 years off before you see it really take hold. By that time, I'd expect Sony and maybe even MS to offer their own "rift" style devices (you can bet Sony have Rifts and have torn them down - I'd expect the HMD-3 to offer rift HD like performance).

But the momentum is certainly now there - with Oculus, and $16M investment funding, VR is getting hyped in ways which hasn't happened since good old Virtuality.

In terms of ED, there are so few kits in the wild (only 6-8k or so), and being developers kits, there isn't a massive amount of point developing for the rift unless you're really trying to prove a point with it.

FD have to make ED for themselves, the new investors on-board (hmmmm), and the kickstarter pledgers. Percentage wise, virtually zero of them have a rift - there's what, 2 or 3 of us at most on here who actually have one.

Using development resources to support a device nobody has isn't a great move. CCP are doing it, because they're trying to prove a point with it - and to be fair, slapping together a space based rift shooter isn't much work if you have 3-5 developers, but it's resource which would be taken away from the ED development - and they're not even in Alpha yet.

I'd prefer FD concentrate on ED, albeit with a flexible UI/screen resolution strategy, and if the Rift gains traction in 2014 at a consumer launch, Rift support is retrofitted in to the game at a later stage. There's no good reason to implement it now other than an unnecssary tech demo.

(Also, it's not all roses for Rift enabled games - look at kickstarter. There have been at least two space based shooters which all offered native rift support which didn't get funded. Heavy Gear isn't going to get funded. So although it's cool and all, and there's lots of buzz, until people get units in their hands, which are consumer units at that, it's not a driver in the market unless you've got some unique USP/gamestyle. Being just-another-space-shooter with rift support (maybe I should coin "jass") won't cut it.)
 
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Yeah - EVR looks really good. DarkField/First law are good too - plenty of indie Unity based space simulators popping up on the Oculus Dev forums at the moment.

@W4rSkull - is it the future of gaming? Perhaps. But not with this generation of tech, and it needs some killer games from established development houses. Even the Oculus HD prototype, I'm not sure if it'll be enough to tip it over the edge or not.

But for us developers, it's a fantastic playground! :)

If they can get ubiquitous support in most games, and if consoles support it - it'll go mainstream, no doubt. Hardware wise, it could do with being more portable, and the holy grail would be a version which powers itself off the device, so there's no messing around with power cables/usb/hdmi/dvi.

I still think it's 2-3 years off before you see it really take hold. By that time, I'd expect Sony and maybe even MS to offer their own "rift" style devices (you can bet Sony have Rifts and have torn them down - I'd expect the HMD-3 to offer rift HD like performance).

But the momentum is certainly now there - with Oculus, and $16M investment funding, VR is getting hyped in ways which hasn't happened since good old Virtuality.

In terms of ED, there are so few kits in the wild (only 6-8k or so), and being developers kits, there isn't a massive amount of point developing for the rift unless you're really trying to prove a point with it.

FD have to make ED for themselves, the new investors on-board (hmmmm), and the kickstarter pledgers. Percentage wise, virtually zero of them have a rift - there's what, 2 or 3 of us at most on here who actually have one.

Using development resources to support a device nobody has isn't a great move. CCP are doing it, because they're trying to prove a point with it - and to be fair, slapping together a space based rift shooter isn't much work if you have 3-5 developers, but it's resource which would be taken away from the ED development - and they're not even in Alpha yet.

I'd prefer FD concentrate on ED, albeit with a flexible UI/screen resolution strategy, and if the Rift gains traction in 2014 at a consumer launch, Rift support is retrofitted in to the game at a later stage. There's no good reason to implement it now other than an unnecssary tech demo.

(Also, it's not all roses for Rift enabled games - look at kickstarter. There have been at least two space based shooters which all offered native rift support which didn't get funded. Heavy Gear isn't going to get funded. So although it's cool and all, and there's lots of buzz, until people get units in their hands, which are consumer units at that, it's not a driver in the market unless you've got some unique USP/gamestyle. Being just-another-space-shooter with rift support (maybe I should coin "jass") won't cut it.)

Yes we have to give it some time. But in the end I think that VR support for spacesims and simulators will be standard. In due time though. Who dont want to look out of their cockpit and see the cargo float by their hull or a Lave sunset.
 
Would it not be worthwhile for FD to get a dev-kit so they can just check how what they're developing looks in VR? Presumably it can't be that tricky to set the COBRA engine to render things very basically in 3D.

The Elite cockpits should be interesting, in that they're very large scale compared to anything else I can think of... You seem to be sitting quite a distance from the console and the glass. I can't quite imagine how that will feel.
 

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
Apparently when CCP created their EVR demo/game they designed motion sickness out of it... not sure how they managed that!

Probably just no strafing. That's what does it for me. Lateral movement with no vestibular input is barf inducing for me.
 
I just checked out Darkfield on the Rift developers kit and I think Frontier would be mad not to design with VR in mind from the "outset" (or close to it). I hope the alpha and beta have a VR mode that we can feed into.
 
Sooo I'm just thinking, the only times I have come across VR is in films/books and the only ones that spring to mind are:

This Other Eden (novelist gets killed while immersed in VR game)

Lawnmower Man (becomes a homicidal megalomaniac)

Just sayin' ;)

Better than life - Red Dwarf. The game ends up killing you!
 
Strangest thing I tried so far on the Rift was watching a 3D movie trailer on a 2D screen in a 3D VR cinema! :S

Having said that, when the resolution gets to the right level, I don't know why I'd go to a cinema again (I'm the narky sort who gets annoyed by mobile phones, talking and loud sweet/crisp packets!) ;)
 
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