External View [A definitive discussion]
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You're in favour of an external view in the cockpit?
1) How does that not hit all the same problem being used in this thread by some people against an external view? It offers the best of both worlds surely? So all the arguments being used against a more regular external view surely come into play again?
2) Say a hud comes up showing an external view, and you move your O.R. head forwards to get closer to it, so it more or less fills your view?
I hope you're not right - I fear you are though
If this is the case, there's going to be a lot of disappointed people I fear. I suspect many people will feel they're visting an art gallery and only being allowed to peer in through the window instead of being able to wonder around at their leisure.
I HAVE TO ASK. Why didn't Mike simply come out (after nigh on 70 pages of this thread) and simply state clearly, no external view akin to what you expect/hope? Why still leave it somewhat vague?
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Yes. Have never claimed anything else. As long it's from the eyes of the commander I'm fine with it.
1) How does that not hit all the same problem being used in this thread by some people against an external view? It offers the best of both worlds surely? So all the arguments being used against a more regular external view surely come into play again?
2) Say a hud comes up showing an external view, and you move your O.R. head forwards to get closer to it, so it more or less fills your view?
Personally I'm not to bothered about those issues...I'm guessing you mean things like greater FOV and therefore combat advantages. If the in-game explanation for this external view is a remote controlled drone then I think that would solve most issues (which in the grand scheme of things are quite minor IMO). People would be able to see detect that drone (and destroy it) and the pilot wouldn't be able to fly the ship and the drone at the same time. At least not safely.
If it also took some time to deploy it and bring it back into the ship it would also stop people from quickly switching between views.
Then would you approve of making the game keyboard and mouse, single screen only - no Oculus Rift, no TrackIR, no HOTAS? And if not, why not? Then you would have an entirely level playing field - is that what you absolutely want, or do you want things like HOTAS support because it makes the game more enjoyable to play? Just like 3rd person would for some people.
Yes but you're the one defending those choices with comparisons to paintings and music and films, rather than just saying what you really think - basically that those choices happen to suit you and your desires for the game. That's all you really need to say, you don't need to try and justify them with some weird analogies that don't stand up!
And strange that you didn't argue for FD's grand vision when YOU saw it as flawed, or not matching what you wanted - re: the in-system travel proposal. Somehow arguing against their vision was okay then, but not now. Of course, most of us argued against it, but that's not really the point as I'm sure you'd have done so even if you had been in the minority.
Anyway, I'm bored of this discussion now and, considering I don't even want 3rd person for myself, I'm putting too much energy into this so I'll leave you all to it. Basically FD will do what the hell they want and, as of right now, it looks like first person only. Hey ho, that's the way it goes.
Yes but you're the one defending those choices with comparisons to paintings and music and films, rather than just saying what you really think - basically that those choices happen to suit you and your desires for the game. That's all you really need to say, you don't need to try and justify them with some weird analogies that don't stand up!
I wouldn't really say I'm "defending" their choices, rather trying to explain why choices like this are made. The reason I'm drawing comparisons to other types of creative fields is just because that's what I work with as my day job. Force of habit I guess.
Maybe you got a point there, but as you said yourself most of us argued against this and the reason was quite clear. The majority of us probably agree that one huge "core pillar" of the old games was the freedom they gave us not just in how to play, but also in where we could go. FD really dropped the ball on that one!
Yeah, same here.
It always takes way to much energy when someone is wrong on the internet, does it not?
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I see from the OP that this is the definitive discussion.
So how we doing?
Well...we are definitively discussing it! Does that count?
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Not really, I already seen an 'out of ship' view on youtube, just wait till the masses get their hands on it
then what are what exactly are you arguing for?!
Please don't put words in my mouth Jabokai, I never said any of that, only one of all of the things I mentioned are in FDev's control, and that is 3rdppov yes or no, they have decided no, end of.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
I still think some are missing the point.
It is not about just about level playing field, (though that is part of it)
it is because the game is meant to be viewed from the eyes of the commander.
Rift, HOTAS, track IR, 3 screen with from within the cockpit, all of these things enhance that vision and bring it closer to the reality of the devs vision.
And this is why - like it or not like it - a controllable drone, tethered to your ship may well make it into the game in some way or another, because that would still be in keeping with the game mechanics.
A magic button where you press F5 and all of a sudden you can see all around you in an instant with full controls however is probably not going to happen (at least online) - unless the devs completely uturn, because that is not part of the living through the eyes of the commander that the original KS said the game would be.
Is the above a loss for simple eye candy viewing/screen shot & video taking, hell yes it is, but at the same time with it in there it would also be a complete game changer for the way the game would play imo.
If I wanted to be pedantic, technically I suppose you could argue, that IF the game HAD to run to the complete devs vision with no compromises you would be forced to use a hotas flight stick (because that is what the commander has in the game)
but that really would mean hardly anyone would be able to play the game
It is not about just about level playing field, (though that is part of it)
it is because the game is meant to be viewed from the eyes of the commander.
Rift, HOTAS, track IR, 3 screen with from within the cockpit, all of these things enhance that vision and bring it closer to the reality of the devs vision.
And this is why - like it or not like it - a controllable drone, tethered to your ship may well make it into the game in some way or another, because that would still be in keeping with the game mechanics.
A magic button where you press F5 and all of a sudden you can see all around you in an instant with full controls however is probably not going to happen (at least online) - unless the devs completely uturn, because that is not part of the living through the eyes of the commander that the original KS said the game would be.
Is the above a loss for simple eye candy viewing/screen shot & video taking, hell yes it is, but at the same time with it in there it would also be a complete game changer for the way the game would play imo.
If I wanted to be pedantic, technically I suppose you could argue, that IF the game HAD to run to the complete devs vision with no compromises you would be forced to use a hotas flight stick (because that is what the commander has in the game)
but that really would mean hardly anyone would be able to play the game
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I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was asking you a question. Never mind, it was obviously a bit complicated.
And I cannot beat the "they have decided no, end of" argument, it is too persuasive.
But this is along the exact lines of the kind of thing being asked for by those endorsing an external view? - You deploy a drone, and it is what is giving you the external view. It's deployment and docking all take time etc etc.
I thought we'd put this point to bed? See OP - "Proposed Behaviour" - [Click here!]
Even failing a full screen view (or close to it) we've covered a HUD utilisation. See "Miscellaneous: External View HUD".
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I dearly hope so! eg: F12 regular screen shot, F11 cockpit less screenshot.
/Sigh, okay Jabokai, I'll play along, just to prove it isn't too complicated for me as you put it.
1) Then would you approve of making the game keyboard and mouse? a) No
2) Single screen only? a) No
3) No Oculus Rift? a) No
4) No TrackIR? a) No
5) No HOTAS? a) No
I don't approve or advocate any of those things, why? - because FDev cannot really control the hardware people have. Could they have controlled whether or not their game will support OR and control methods? - Of course they could, the problem is you are then opening a hacking can of worms as people have these at home. Also, you are handicapping your game going forward, FDev without a doubt, want this game to have longevity and cutting edge tech like OR helps future proof their game in the control/hardware department.
And the 'they have decided no, end of' part of my post, well, whether you like it or not, that is the case, that is how things stand - at least for launch by the looks of it, whether you find it persuasive or not is irrelevant to me and FDev apparently. And you are right, you can't beat it, because whether you like it or not that was the view of FDev, posted in this thread by one of the game designers.
I was being facetious.
The whole point of the thread is to discuss actual arguments, for and against, is it not? Given the devs have said what they've said, then using that as an argument is pointless as you may as well use it as a counter to every single point made by the opposing views... doesn't exactly lead to much discussion though.I was being facetious.
Of course you are right with regards to the discussion, and until that post by Mike was made, that was exactly what myself, NeilF and others were doing. What that post has done is blast a big hole in the side of this thread,, it is the elephant in the room. The discussion, some may argue, is pointless beyond that post by Mike.
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Mike's post did give me some temporary closure, I will admit.
However, I am still convinced that down the line an external view will be implemented.
Even though they have made the decision that this game will be experienced from only a pilots view, it doesn't mean it was the right decision and as had been stated by FD staff, things can and will change.
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