FDev has made Every Style of Gameplay Unrewarding and Tedious

Elite Dangerous' update cycle and game balance is one of the most neurotic in gaming. They either fail to notice a glitch that causes extremely unbalanced payouts/exploitable payouts, or otherwise take a new fun, rewarding and enjoyable game mechanic and nerf it until it's no longer fun or rewarding. We get new wing missions, they listen to one side of the player base, upset that people who've been on for a week didn't take a month to get into a Vulture or Cobra and cry for nerfs. I DO NOT want to do Wing Missions anymore. They're an under paid slog to complete, unless you can consistently get 4 people to help with them. It doesn't matter if one person moves 20 tonnes, and the other moves 9000, the payout is the same. This should be rather common sense here, for anyone who understands fairness.

A wing of friends of mind got together to do an 8 million for 8k tonnes of something, and in the time we did that, we could have made over 50 million off of solo missions paying from 2 million for 180 tonnes, to 8 million for 300 tonnes. What gives Frontier? This game is supposed to be "Play it how you want", with no standardized end-goal. And that's fine, but this grind to get there is unjustifiable, or to get anywhere in general. And it's not just unrewarding, it's unrealistic to expect people to make a full time job out of Elite Dangerous if they want to do more than wish they had the money to realistically play the way they want. I don't give one iota for the folks who think they game needs to be a slog for everyone else, just because it was for them.

Everytime I try to get into Elite Dangerous, I run up against the fact that everytime something new and fun gets added it gets nerfed until it's unrewarding almost immediately (AKA Multicrew, and maybe Wing Missions now too). What's the point in playing this game with friends, if doing so is unrewarding, unfun, and unbalanced? FDev's poor design decisions are literally starting to destroy Elite player groups, because people are sick of the endless, pointless slog just to do anything we enjoy doing in game. And the rest of us are stuck wishing our friends would play again, only because we've already invested beyond just the base game, and are thus invested in seeing the game grow and be you know... Fun. Stop making the game grindy just to stop new players from getting Clippers in a week, for everyone's sake.

The least you could do is balance payout for players based on total tonnage they personally delivered, and list missions by total funds distributed. Sigh... You never learn, and you never listen FDev. Or maybe you listen too much and thus the community and game balance becomes dominated by only the most obnoxious and vocal, while the rest of the player base gets stomped on... I don't know. I'm already losing my patience with Elite Dangerous and I only picked it up again at the new Wing Mission Beta. Also, as a note, I'm one of those players who avoids exploit-like mechanics to make money, because it personally bothers me. But when you even take the out of the good content that isn't an exploit, I find it rather hard to maintain my patience with the game.
 
Ignoring the hyperbolic thread title, a while back, there was a discussion about rewards being in proportion to the tonnage hauled. However that would unfairly penalise one type of role perfectly suited to these wing missions - the fighter escort.

I guess a good solution might be to allow the mission-sharer to determine how the spoils are shared, whether equal share or proportional to the tonnage, and let the other players choose whether they want in on it or not.
 
There are definite areas where tedium has taken hold. Here's the thing, though, even though I know it's tedious, even though I know there are times when I'm bored out of my mind working towards one thing or another, I keep playing, because I'm flying a spaceship. It doesn't feel like work, for now, because I can just let it go for a while and just fly around in my spaceship, but yeah, I get what you're saying OP.
 
Ignoring the hyperbolic thread title, a while back, there was a discussion about rewards being in proportion to the tonnage hauled. However that would unfairly penalise one type of role perfectly suited to these wing missions - the fighter escort.

I guess a good solution might be to allow the mission-sharer to determine how the spoils are shared, whether equal share or proportional to the tonnage, and let the other players choose whether they want in on it or not.
Actually, there is a thread currently active in the Suggestions section of the forum. While it started as an attempt to address the disparity in Wing Haulage Missions - it is expanding into a full concept of a Mission System rework.

Shameless plug, I am the one that started this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/416422-Please-address-Wing-Haulage-Pay-Disparity

Y'all are welcome to give it a read and provide whatever constructive feedback you might have - debate/discussion/ideas are always welcome (as long as we can be civil about it [smile])

Give it a gander, and I hope to see you over there.

Fly Safe All
o7
 
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This game is supposed to be "Play it how you want", with no standardized end-goal. And that's fine, but this grind to get there is unjustifiable, or to get anywhere in general.
In general, it's best not to read too much into marketing slogans, which is all that "Play it how you want" is. It's a slogan. It does not mean that if you want to start day 1 in a battle conda and lose 10 ships everyday, you should be able to do that.

Sorry to break the news, but what you call "grinding" is the main gameplay. If you don't enjoy that, this really isn't your kind of game and I don't think FD has any intention of changing that. Don't blame other players for the grind; that's strictly up to FD.

Also, fun is not measured in credits per hour. ED can be fun, but you need to find realistic ways to enjoy yourself. Here's a hint: Don't measure your progress or wealth against others. That only leads to salt.

Accept that this is a slow-paced game and don't focus on credits so much. The big ships are a false goal; they are expensive to buy, outfit, repair, and rebuy. Most long-time players fly more practical ships most of the time. (I spend most of my time in an AspX, which took me nearly a year to earn.) Enjoy the journey; there is no end game, so there's no need to rush.
 
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Always funny seeing players complain about unrewarding activities for us day 1 veterans. Back in the days missions seldom payed more then a few k. Bounties even on big ships were like a few 100 or 1000 cr.

Now we are getting 100 fold more and people still complain. If every 10 minute mission payed a billion... I bet players would still complain, because another activity pays 2.

FDev made everything unrewarding? Nope... players have turned into wimps who want to get everything shoved up into their.....
 
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AND in the old days you had to manually workout in the commodities section which items were MISSION delivery items and not just commodities you had bought to fill your hold ....that was a pain in the rump.
 
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*sings* It's raining cash, hallelujah!

Back in the beginning it took really a lot of time, shipping some tons with your cobra from point A to point B, yes. And i love it. Right now you need a few hours to buy a ship worth 400 millions. My thought about that: hmm... way to easy. People are complaining too much.
 
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Whatever you think about OP's rant regarding overall pace of progression in Elite; the point about wing missions as compared to solo missions is spot on. Wing missions are Dead On Arrival because of the amount they pay vs Solo missions of the equivalent type.

I personally prefer the game to have a slower progression, where you spend a decent amount of time in each ship, slowly saving up for each new module and gradually working your way up to a larger ship, and even accepting that there are some ships you might NEVER be able to afford; but that's me.

Regardless of the pace you prefer; the relationship between different activities and the rates of earning cash in the game is totally out of whack. Nothing in the game is even a little bit in balance with respect to any other part of the game.
 
Before people used to take it for granted as the only thing to do (i blame youtubers and reddit, you guys screwed everything) money making schemes were almost a gameplay pillar in themselves. There was always something you could do to make the credits you need for your next ship quickly, but you would go seek it out just like you would a session of mining or combat.

As elite has matured this is now caught up in community attention seekers, the label of "exploits" and entitlements from young gamers or people who claim to have no time.. it was really better as distinct gameplay pillar you only did when you needed to.
 
and things need to go back to being the way they where back then, "vets' seem to agree, at least on steam and reddit, anything that lets people progress faster then they did, is not acceptable and harms their pride...

and you are correct, wanting navy rank missions to work, thats demanding an instant win/instant billions... yup you are correct.

and you are also correct that anybody complaining that they flooded the boards with wing missions and illegal , removing the we actually could or would do from most of our hub systems... well we just need to nut up and take those wing missionsand do them in type7's!!!! 9-12hrs doing loops is all it should take to deliver 4k units from ix to hip 20722.... for 8mil!!!!!
Mr victus, you might want to calm down a bit, you're spamming every thread with the same thing, you sound a bit stressed to me, maybe take yourself on a long exploration trip and enjoy the pretty planets.

The rank up missions are obviously bugged at the moment, it'll be fixed in a few days.
Cutting back on the rep ++++ missions had nothing to do with "vets", it's simply that the original implementation was not quite working as intended and so has been brought back to where it should have been. It was, I'm sure you'll agree, unreasonable to go from zero to King in the empire in one day, you do agree this was too much, yes?

The other things you keep mentioning, yes some of those could do with a bit of refinement, and fdev have said they'll continue to balance things, so best thing to do is calmly state your concerns and go enjoy the parts of the game which are working just fine (which is about 96% of the game).

Nobody ever said the game was perfect or bug free, but it's not good for anyone to spam thread after thread claiming that everything is broken, blaming other players, and suggesting fdev are deliberately trying to ruin the game for you. There are a few bugs and issues that need to be resolved, I'm sure fdev are working on them, but for now, chill man, it's not all bad, step back a second and appreciate all the good stuff and don't just focus on the negatives.
 
Well I'm a "vet", not the curing sick animals type, but I've been playing this since beta.

The rank grind was a horrific slog, I did it twice, I'd never want to do it again.
Yes, it's good that there is now a way to get there quicker, unfortunately it was a bit unbalanced at first, getting max rank in one or two days totally defeats the purpose, but it should definitely be something that can be done much quicker than it used to be, they just need to find a happy middle ground.

I enjoy my "get rich quick" schemes, I won't lie about that, I was bored with the game until ceos/sothis first came along a few years back and actually let me build up enough money to go out and buy ships without having to play 24/7 to do so. I'll also agree that some of the "exploits" were a disaster though, being able to make over a billion a day was unhealthy for the game, and they had to be stopped. Again, nothing wrong with good high payout missions for those prepared to put in the effort, just a case of finding the right balance and squashing the bugs.

So, Mr unasalusvictus, no one is trying to say that your comments are totally wrong, yes, some things aren't quite right just now, and it's good to raise these so they get sorted, but (I guess) we'll get more respect and attention from the devs it we can word those complaints in an informative, constructive way.
That's what I think anyway, others will disagree. :)
 
Ranking was awful. They temporarily made it easy, but still awful. Now it is back to slow and awful again.

The problem is not the speed of ranking, but the fact that ranking isn't fun and navy missions suck. Seriously the 1984 navy missions were so much better than the 'steal clothing' rubbish we have now, in that they had a little bit of story, some challenge and something new in them.

Why are navy missions so awful? Why are navy ranks so meaningless? I would love to hear from a dev on this. Personally I think it should be removed from the game until it is properly fleshed out.
 
Ranking was awful. They temporarily made it easy, but still awful. Now it is back to slow and awful again.

The problem is not the speed of ranking, but the fact that ranking isn't fun and navy missions suck. Seriously the 1984 navy missions were so much better than the 'steal clothing' rubbish we have now, in that they had a little bit of story, some challenge and something new in them.

Why are navy missions so awful? Why are navy ranks so meaningless? I would love to hear from a dev on this. Personally I think it should be removed from the game until it is properly fleshed out.
They are there because military - what we have are civil ranks of Navy, not proper military ranks - as gameplay isn't in game yet. Will we get to that point remains to be seen, but FD has broad plans - and assets - so it might come one day.

Those ranks are there however to make power ships available. And understandable that missions feel a bit meaningless in terms of military - although I find randomness fun and sometimes what they generate is LOL material - but overall that's what we have now.

Doesn't justify 'fast ranking' though. Ranking doing missions in boom state star systems is very fun. No need for fast tracking or anything.
 
You may be a Day 1 Veteran for this game, but the that doesn't entitle you to keep the game in a state of status quo so only backers can have the "Authentic Experience". If you don't have anything to add, then don't. Further, I've BEEN a Day 1 Veteran in other games that got radically changed with time. It happens. Before you complain about other peoples complaints, perhaps you should examine your own attitudes. I don't care if playing the game gets easier, so long as it's better.

It didn't quote, but that was directed at the guy who used his day 1/backer status to talk down to others. Any consistent MMO gamer has been the early adopter could have seen the same happen, and I have. That doesn't mean the point is invalid. And for further, complaining that other people are complaining is just an derailing, and demonstrates that I can't take anything you say seriously, to me at least.
 
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dosnt mean that if you hate to grind, you shouldnt have to spend years treating the game like job, playing it like a korean grinder, if you want access to a jump-a-conda, you need at least 3200hrs in game, treating it like a job, earn earn earn, save save save, use small ships with low rebuy cost, once you save enough, you will have to ask the forums if you have enough hours in game that its ok for you to buy one...

this is a SLOW paced game, you need to spend months to years treating it like job if your end goal is jump-a-conda exploration/xenohunting.......asking for stuff soooner then that.... you just want "instagib" and "instnat win button" .... same as complaining about wing bugs and navy ranks being removed... just proof you are lazy and want everything given to you....

bit hint: learn to enjoy tedious tasks like farming mats on barren rocks, with the right mindset, its super enthralling and exciting..you never kow how many of the same rock models you will see over the next rise!!!! and its super rewarding... a rock to shoot ever 1600KM!!!!!

again, nobody needs more then an adder or imp eagle to get 100% enjoy ment from 100% of the content this game has to offer, this must be true, "vets" on the steam forums and here have said it often enough...
Why do you keep trying to treat ED like a job?
I already have a job, playing R/L cash. I treat ED like entertainment and I can still have fun. If I can’t go Xeno hunting in a Battle Conda, so what?
I suppose you could treat ED as a job if you don’t have an R/L one and are really, really, really desperate for that Battle Conda so that you can go out and get blown up by a Xeno. But “play (or work) your way.”
 
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