New upgrade System - "Your time is valueable"- is a pure grind and waste of everyones time

[Shanaeri]

Beyond engineering update

[video=youtube_share;xjU_qyA-zdQ]https://youtu.be/xjU_qyA-zdQ[/video]

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Overall, my first impression is that I prefer (not like) the new engineer system.
However it is more grind in terms of material and probably time.
Under the old system, you reached G5 and then a minimum of 1 roll for each item engineered.
Now is a number, much greater than 1, as you move from G1 through G4 to reach G5 - and then a few more probably to get an equivalent result that 1 roll would have given you. (Substitute Gn, if you do not need G5).
Sandy saying it is less grind I find hard to understand.
Hopefully, I have misunderstood and will be surprised by how wrong I am.
For new players, if you have to have engineers, my first impression is that the new approach looks better (more flexible and guaranteed progress) - but it is still a pain.

It's always going to be a pain. But yes, I do sincerely believe this will be better for new players.

 

[Dbrn47]

That's why I'm okay. I was sick of RNG saying "no, you get a worse ship because frell you".

Now I can actually work for something I know will be better.

Yea, the reward sounds neat, but the work still sounds the same... possibly worse (if you never rolled for god rolls).

 

[Iskariot]

If you watched the stream of today you saw that they showed off the new system.To make things short.
Forcing us to roll a module 5 times to "complete" rank 1 to progess further to rank 2 is just a waste of time and material as it is waste of time finding all those material.
The materials required to go through 2,3 and 4 to finally roll 5 is such a huge new time sink that you will probably have to spend all your time on RNG jesus in order to aquire the tidious bits for the grades noone wants and uses.
They even adressed it quickly and said thats not a new grind. LIES, Do you even play your own game?.

Solutions to this is

1.) Remove the barrier and let us roll staight to G5 from 0
2.) Remove the utter clutter of different Materials. Create a CLEAR and CONSISTENT way of aquiring Materials.

I disagree.
Sandy already explained why in total it will be faster and easier.
And also each roll will always be an improvement.
And no re-rolling for special effects anymore.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

If you watched the stream of today you saw that they showed off the new system.To make things short.
Forcing us to roll a module 5 times to "complete" rank 1 to progess further to rank 2 is just a waste of time and material as it is waste of time finding all those material.
The materials required to go through 2,3 and 4 to finally roll 5 is such a huge new time sink that you will probably have to spend all your time on RNG jesus in order to aquire the tidious bits for the grades noone wants and uses.
They even adressed it quickly and said thats not a new grind. LIES, Do you even play your own game?.

Solutions to this is

1.) Remove the barrier and let us roll staight to G5 from 0
2.) Remove the utter clutter of different Materials. Create a CLEAR and CONSISTENT way of aquiring Materials.

How come you ignore material trader completely?

Engineers is not G5 shop.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

Yeah, I agree, absolutely terrible, screws over new players mostly. Lot of us established players have already G5 modifications and don't need to go trough G1 -> G4 anymore, but for new modules it's terrible.
Also it's not worth to change from one mod to another anymore, if you have G5 overcharged weapons and you want to change to G5 long range you are better of buying a new set of multi cannons and start form the beginning again, spending hundred of materials in the process.

 

[IceFire122]

Hm, if I understood the broker right, you can get a lot of lower grade mats for one top grade material. Hence, if you gather materials (and now keep them instead of throwing them away), you should be able to pass through the lower grades quite quickly.

 

[Dbrn47]

Hm, if I understood the broker right, you can get a lot of lower grade mats for one top grade material. Hence, if you gather materials (and now keep them instead of throwing them away), you should be able to pass through the lower grades quite quickly.

At a 27 to 1 conversion rate, yea. Numbers subject to change of course, but the initial numbers state their intent.

 

[bladebss]

I too am so disappointed with this change.

Taken all the fun away and made it a bland grind. Why even bother with the upgardes? Just grade A everything and give us special effects! It where wvery one will end up any way just after YET MORE GRIND!

I could do a ship in 1 day or 2 with the mats i had kicking around.. now i will have to be a full time mat farmer!


I will be spending the next month frantically engeneering all the stuff i think i might need in the future.. no time for beta now i got modules to save!

I thinj im guna need more condas to store all this stuff in too.

Also.. now we have to choose between secondery effect or special effect we cant have both any more!

#ruined engeneers
#dumbed down engeneers

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I never rolled for god rolls before, so this system is theoretically going to take more time for me. Meh.

I get a better upgrade in the end. With increased material storage and material traders and all, I don't think it will practically be that much longer.

I think it's a good system.

If you think it's too much of a grind - don't grind it. Mindblowing, I know.

A complaint that it takes too long to get a high-grade roll might be valid - after you've actually tried it out - but complaining that FD is "forcing" you to grind is childish.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I'm fine with most of the changes.

My one complaint is this thing where gaining a Grade rank on one blueprint means if you want to switch to a different blueprint on the same module with the same engineer, that means you're back to grade 1 on that blueprint.

That just seems rather punishing to me. That's where the real grind comes in.

Otherwise, apart from that Engineering seems OK.

 

[vermu]

I like this change. I have engineered only my fsd and I got so many g5 rolls that made it worse. Now I don't even dare to roll anymore if it goes worse again. So I have to settle for ok'ish. I could do coutless rolls with old system or get guaranteed good roll with new system. I can't see the logic it's so much more grind with new system. I see it simplified for players like me who want always go ahead not back.

 

[Cougar]

I think the material trader at least alleviates the material grind. You seem to be able to convert 3:1 downwards. Let's work it out, and assume around 4 rolls per levelup:

G1 G2 G3 G4 G5
4 4 4 4 4 basic material needs
0 6 4 4 4 to generate G1 from G2 (two leftover G1s)
0 0 6 4 4 to generate G2 from G3
0 0 0 6 4 to generate G3 from G4
0 0 0 0 6 to generate G4 from G5, and do the G5 rolls

That's not too bad - approximately 6 grade 5 mats of three different types to have a guaranteed full upgrade (without special effect, obviously).

That being said, it will be a horrible *click grind* for all the conversions .

 

[GG7]

And more premature whinging by people who want to keep a system that can potentially never yield a "good" result, and has people brag how they did literally thousands of rolls to get something they considered acceptable. Great. Drop it.


And that old lice-infected strawman too.

THIS ^ Is the HUGE disconnect I have never been able to understand. How is rolling 1000 times to get an overspec better than rolling 30 times for nearly the same thing?

 

[biohazard15]

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. New system requires A LOT MORE materials than the old one, and even material brokers cannot fix this.

 

[KillaALF]

Don't see the problem myself. I'll just use my existing G5 modules (non of which is god rolled), convert them to the new system - as Sandro explained, they will be G4(maxed) after the conversion - and then do a few rolls to get them to G5(maxed) again. Doesn't really seem that much of a grind, tbh.

 

[Red Anders]

Agreed. The feedback on this was almost unaminously negative, but honestly it's even worse than we thought because it looks like it's taking 5 to 6 rolls for each rank. I can't fathom why Sandro feels it's not a grind, it very clearly is a huge new grind for all casual engineer users.

Haven't seen the stream due to traveling home from work but from that, we're talking between 25 and 30 rolls every single time I want to roll a module to 'maximum' grade 5?

Considering that out of all the engineered modules I have across 19 ships, the only things I've done 30 or more rolls on under the current system where we can just roll G5 mods immediately after unlocking G5 with the engineer are maybe five FSDs, that seems somewhat ill-advised and a hell of a lot more work to collect the materials that will be needed.

THIS ^ Is the HUGE disconnect I have never been able to understand. How is rolling 1000 times to get an overspec better than rolling 30 times for nearly the same thing?

It isn't. Thing is, whenever this point is made the implication is that rolling 1,000 times for overspec kit was somehow normal, or an intended feature of engineering. I'd bet you that less than 0.1% of players did that, but they are the only ones who are making any kind of time saving here.

 

[bigity]

Hm, if I understood the broker right, you can get a lot of lower grade mats for one top grade material. Hence, if you gather materials (and now keep them instead of throwing them away), you should be able to pass through the lower grades quite quickly.

What do you want to bet all material brokers are at least 200 ly from any engineer system.

 

[NeilF]

Grind or no grind... My issue is the fact The Engineers simply creates a huge unnecessary arms race to an upper tier for seemingly no real purpose. And all paid for via the same gameplay we've basically been doing for 2-3 years anyway.

This latest changes should take the opportunity to dial back the uber benefits upgrades give you, such they're nice to have, but not God life (eg: when you have a G5).

 

[bigity]

Don't see the problem myself. I'll just use my existing G5 modules (non of which is god rolled), convert them to the new system - as Sandro explained, they will be G4(maxed) after the conversion - and then do a few rolls to get them to G5(maxed) again. Doesn't really seem that much of a grind, tbh.

Until you want to buy a new ship.