New upgrade System - "Your time is valueable"- is a pure grind and waste of everyones time

[Hatikvah]

Thankfully, Obsidian Ant's recent video seems to show they aren't hard to find.

That is good news, that man puts out so much content and fast.

But - as said elsewhere - Max seems to think more time flying around is an improvement. And maybe this is where some of us differ.

Personally I'd like to spend X amount of time doing more involved and interesting gameplay. ie: Actually flying around doing something with my upgraded ship.

But it seems other are happy to envisage spending that time X simply obtaining more materials, flying to and from Material Brokers

Looking at it cynically you could say that they're trying to increase the amount of time players need to spend in game to achieve things. More time invested = more likely money is spent on the store items. It's business 101 unfortunately and is pretty much everywhere in games now.

 

[Jex =TE=]

For me - absolutely. They are basically unbeatable now. I just switch off.

Presumably FDev are doing nothing to address this issue. What a weird company to make a game and then make it so all their Mac users can't compete in it or any non-horizons players OR players that don't want to play with the Engineers. That's a good way to lose customers.

 

[Jex =TE=]

There is something wrong with the system when you have no way of achieving better stats on upgrade than under old system and still let the old stats be in the game. An explanation that FD value the time players put in upgrades in past is just silly. Everyone should have a chance to play on equal ground. Grandfathering should not give player an advantage that others cannot achieve anymore.

See my post above - if that's true, FDev simply don't care who has advantages. Remember the G5 God roll glitch they didn't fix for months that only the players that knew about it were using?

 

[Arkadi]

- deleted unreasonable post -

actually I start to like the beyond beta 1.

It's all a thing of getting used to changes...

coping mechanism setting in.

 

[korombei]

Personally I don't see a problem with the new system. I'll try it properly later, but to me it seems that now, rather than having to scour the internet for locations of specific data packages or materials, then find those locations before sitting in supercruise/combing a planetary surface for particular mats, which is essentially at the mercy of rng, I can now simply collect anything I come across and stockpile it, trading in what I don't need for what I do need.

This should mean I have lots more materials, as I don't have to be selective with what I collect, which should also mean that even if there are more rolls required (I gather there might be, but only a small amount more), then I can quickly make progress through the grades. Importantly, I will always be making progress and getting a better module, rather than spending all that time searching for materials only to get 15 crap rolls in a row - which essentially amounts to wasted time.

Ok, so I have to do this for every module I want to upgrade, but the same was true before. I didn't have a massive problem with the old system either to be honest, but from what I gather the main problem everyone had was the rng factor of getting useless rolls and time wasting grinding/searching for mats. Seems like both have these issues have been addressed. Is it the perfect solution? I don't know until I try it myself, but I doubt there's any perfect solution anyway, given everyone has different expectations and opinions about what amount of time/effort is acceptable to them for the results. Whatever Frontier do someone is going to complain.

For me at least, it seems like I can organically collect mats as I play now, without having to take too much (or potentially any) time out to treasure hunt for tin or do CIF runs. Also, adding special effects without losing rep (which you have to then grind back up) is surely a good thing.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

How. As of right now to guarantee a good G5 roll you need 5-6 G5 mats. In the new system you will get a good grade 5 straight away using 1 roll, more if you want it better and it will get better straight away without risk of it getting worse.

So you do what you normally do to get your 5 G5 rare mats. Create 6 G4 mats from two of the G5 leaving you with 3 G5. Create 6 G3 from 2 G4, and 6 G2 from 2 G3 and 6 G1 from 2 G2.

This leaves you with:-

3 G5 mats
4 G4 mats
4 G3 mats
4 G2 mats
6 G1 mats

With all the same amount of material gathering. This doesn't include the materials you will get while you are looking for G5 mats either making it even easier.

So a virtually guaranteed great G5 for the same or less material gathering unless you are very very unlucky. And you may get a super roll on your first try at G5 too.

This turned out to be true in the Beta? And if it is the way it works ... doesn't that defeat the whole system?

Assuming the above is correct:
I need not gather more materials than the old system. I just go the the brokers and exchange in such a way my usual amount of G5 materials are converted to the lower tiers in order to complete the lower levels. Then I go to the engineer and I rush through levels 1 to 4 and a couple of level 5's. In effect bypassing the lower levels just as I did before. Except now I have to keep track of many more materials and visit different kinds of brokers. So that is effectively the only thing that's added.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

This turned out to be true in the Beta? And if it is the way it works ... doesn't that defeat the whole system?

Assuming the above is correct:
I need not gather more materials than the old system. I just go the the brokers and exchange in such a way my usual amount of G5 materials are converted to the lower tiers in order to complete the lower levels. Then I go to the engineer and I rush through levels 1 to 4 and a couple of level 5's. In effect bypassing the lower levels just as I did before. Except now I have to keep track of many more materials and visit different kinds of brokers. So that is effectively the only thing that's added.

For me it did end up being true. in the current version I could only engineer 1 G5 and 3 G3 upgrades. With the materials broker got all the modules G3-G5 in one sitting. But I did use up nearly all of my materials, but I don't grind for materials. Remember people are testing this without upping their materials. It will be far easier to get materials as you do not need to throw any away or choose to leave some behind due to space issues.

The only was we will find out for sure is if we test it for around a weeks play.

For people that want their stuff asap and grind for materials, they can still do that, nothing has changed for them apart from potentiall less rolls (you could roll 20 G5 extended range FSD drives and not get over 40%). For people like me who plays casually it is a much nicer experience. None of my hard earned materials are now wasted on worse rolls then before. Going up the grades will be pretty easy etc.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

This turned out to be true in the Beta? And if it is the way it works ... doesn't that defeat the whole system?

Assuming the above is correct:
I need not gather more materials than the old system. I just go the the brokers and exchange in such a way my usual amount of G5 materials are converted to the lower tiers in order to complete the lower levels. Then I go to the engineer and I rush through levels 1 to 4 and a couple of level 5's. In effect bypassing the lower levels just as I did before. Except now I have to keep track of many more materials and visit different kinds of brokers. So that is effectively the only thing that's added.

Sounds like it goes better with a spreadsheet.

Elite Dangerous: The Accountant is real.

I mean, it was real before already. Let's just call it persistency in development.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

But - as said elsewhere - Max seems to think more time flying around is an improvement. And maybe this is where some of us differ.

Personally I'd like to spend X amount of time doing more involved and interesting gameplay. ie: Actually flying around doing something with my upgraded ship.

But it seems other are happy to envisage spending that time X simply obtaining more materials, flying to and from Material Brokers (seemingly purposefully placed away from Engineers to create more engaging flight time?), is rewarding and enjoyable game time.

I guess we're just going to have to differ on this...

I'll once again mention my compromise to mean people do not have to do the current nonsense of single G5 rolling modules and storing them for the months to come to overcome this new enforced G1->G4 grind - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-quot-grind-quot-G1-gt-G5-on-every-new-module

I like to get my materials while i am doing stuff. I never fly around just to get materials. Materials like credits come by just playing the game and it will be even easier now with all the new space for materials, no need to throw any away, no need to leave any behind. So the only time when I visit a broker is when I will think about upgrading my ship, and even then I may not need to depending on what i have available.

The only reason why people are using it a lot now, is because they can. Once they get their head around how the materials broker works, where to get materials and the huge amount of extra materials we can carry, I can see the material brokers as only a QoL thing that is used once in a while.

 

[Aashenfox]

Personally I don't see a problem with the new system. I'll try it properly later, but to me it seems that now, rather than having to scour the internet for locations of specific data packages or materials, then find those locations before sitting in supercruise/combing a planetary surface for particular mats, which is essentially at the mercy of rng, I can now simply collect anything I come across and stockpile it, trading in what I don't need for what I do need.

This should mean I have lots more materials, as I don't have to be selective with what I collect, which should also mean that even if there are more rolls required (I gather there might be, but only a small amount more), then I can quickly make progress through the grades. Importantly, I will always be making progress and getting a better module, rather than spending all that time searching for materials only to get 15 crap rolls in a row - which essentially amounts to wasted time.

Ok, so I have to do this for every module I want to upgrade, but the same was true before. I didn't have a massive problem with the old system either to be honest, but from what I gather the main problem everyone had was the rng factor of getting useless rolls and time wasting grinding/searching for mats. Seems like both have these issues have been addressed. Is it the perfect solution? I don't know until I try it myself, but I doubt there's any perfect solution anyway, given everyone has different expectations and opinions about what amount of time/effort is acceptable to them for the results. Whatever Frontier do someone is going to complain.

For me at least, it seems like I can organically collect mats as I play now, without having to take too much (or potentially any) time out to treasure hunt for tin or do CIF runs. Also, adding special effects without losing rep (which you have to then grind back up) is surely a good thing.

Allow me to elaborate...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...od-correctly?p=6343292&viewfull=1#post6343292

 

[GraXXoR]

Presumably FDev are doing nothing to address this issue. What a weird company to make a game and then make it so all their Mac users can't compete in it or any non-horizons players OR players that don't want to play with the Engineers. That's a good way to lose customers.

I have a MacBook Pro and tried playing it on Mac. It was appallingly slow due to a combination of lack of optimisation for the smaller platform and the OpenGL or whatever it was using being less efficient than Direct X (10? 11?)

Anyway, whenever I want to play it on the road, I have a wee SSD in a thunderbolt case with Bootcamp Windows 10, Elite Dangerous, EDDiscovery, Discord, Teamspeak and Duet for an external iPad monitor on which to browse while I play.

I was getting about 12-25FPS in Mac OS and get a decent 50/60 FPS in Windows with similar settings.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Allow me to elaborate...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...od-correctly?p=6343292&viewfull=1#post6343292

Already been debunked in your own thread.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Mac players were held hostage by Apple for few years unfortunately. Now with Metal 2 it might be possible for Horizons port. Really depends how FD feels they could do it financially.

If they will, we will know soon enough.

 

[sb413197]

To all of you who complained about the G1-5 "grind", I hate you. Really. Why did you scare me like that. Now I see that with the materials trader this is a COMPLETE non-issue. I'm gonna go into the update with like 500 MEF and EFCs and never worry about this stuff again.

 

[NeilF]

I like to get my materials while i am doing stuff. I never fly around just to get materials. Materials like credits come by just playing the game and it will be even easier now with all the new space for materials, no need to throw any away, no need to leave any behind. So the only time when I visit a broker is when I will think about upgrading my ship, and even then I may not need to depending on what i have available.

The only reason why people are using it a lot now, is because they can. Once they get their head around how the materials broker works, where to get materials and the huge amount of extra materials we can carry, I can see the material brokers as only a QoL thing that is used once in a while.

Simply getting materials as you fly around, in a more casual way is the way I'd generally perfer to play.

If others want to take it more professionally and get/farm materials more efficiently great!


But as a casual player, I come to the point where I have a buck load of materials and now what? What can those materials get me?

So I want to upgrade a weapon, can I? - Examine the spread sheets!

Oh, I can only do two rolls! Oh! Maybe I should upgrade this other weapons then? - Example the spread sheets! Oh I could do loads ot rolls except I only have one of this rare material. Can I get more of it for other materials? Example the spread sheets!

I find it all contrived mechanics desperately trying to portray themselves as needlessly clever and complex.

Let me just easily see what I can go with what with whom. Don't make me than go to Material Traders all over the place to complicate it even more.

 

[NeilF]

To all of you who complained about the G1-5 "grind", I hate you. Really. Why did you scare me like that. Now I see that with the materials trader this is a COMPLETE non-issue. I'm gonna go into the update with like 500 MEF and EFCs and never worry about this stuff again.

Define non-issue? So you want to upgrade your FSD? You have a bunch of materials... Now tell me what I need and what I can achieve?

ie: I fly to the Engineer, only to find I can only do a couple of grade two rolls because I don't have many of material X. So now I fly to a Material Trader to exchange some Y for X. Back to the Engineer I go, and roll away, only then to find out I could do a couple of Grade 3 if only I had some Z...

People are simply forced to (repeatedly) examine spreadsheets to prevent the needless faff the mechanics throws at you in handfuls!


At the very least place a unified Material Broker at Engineer locations!

 

[Hatikvah]

For me it did end up being true. in the current version I could only engineer 1 G5 and 3 G3 upgrades. With the materials broker got all the modules G3-G5 in one sitting. But I did use up nearly all of my materials, but I don't grind for materials. Remember people are testing this without upping their materials. It will be far easier to get materials as you do not need to throw any away or choose to leave some behind due to space issues.

The only was we will find out for sure is if we test it for around a weeks play.

For people that want their stuff asap and grind for materials, they can still do that, nothing has changed for them apart from potentiall less rolls (you could roll 20 G5 extended range FSD drives and not get over 40%). For people like me who plays casually it is a much nicer experience. None of my hard earned materials are now wasted on worse rolls then before. Going up the grades will be pretty easy etc.

See that sounds like it's worse than the current system for casual players. Currently when I unlock a new engineer, for example Broo I dumped common nickel and shield emitters on sturdy weapon rolls until G5. At that point I pin the overcharged mod that I actually want. Typically I have the materials for one roll there and then because the previous rolls haven't touched the resources for the G5 roll I'm after. I pin that mod and all later weapon mods are doable after 1-2 hours farming (resources for 1 roll per weapon. So an initial wall then a smaller investment for each G5 mod after that.

On the new system you burn all your materials to get the desired materials at the broker for one complete G1-G5 upgrade. In some ways this initial wall is no different than before. But now each time you want to upgrade a module you need to farm twice as much rare materials so you can trade down for the intermediate upgrade materials or farm a large amount of basic materials to trade up. There is also the added chance of getting stuck at G3/4 if rolls go against you and you are short of materials for that stage but have the materials for G5. It's a fresh wall everytime you go upgrade a module. As has been stated before it's only the hardcore who would roll multiple times at G5 to get top teir upgrades that are benefitting from this. That's great but there were plenty ways you could done that and not screwed everyone else.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Simply getting materials as you fly around, in a more casual way is the way I'd generally perfer to play.

If others want to take it more professionally and get/farm materials more efficiently great!


But as a casual player, I come to the point where I have a buck load of materials and now what? What can those materials get me?

So I want to upgrade a weapon, can I? - Examine the spread sheets!

Oh, I can only do two rolls! Oh! Maybe I should upgrade this other weapons then? - Example the spread sheets! Oh I could do loads ot rolls except I only have one of this rare material. Can I get more of it for other materials? Example the spread sheets!

I find it all contrived mechanics desperately trying to portray themselves as needlessly clever and complex.

Let me just easily see what I can go with what with whom. Don't make me than go to Material Traders all over the place to complicate it even more.

It will be no different then the current system, which isn't ideal either. That is one of the flaws in the system. The act of leveling up, getting the materials, going to the broker isn't an issue in my view. What we do need is a way to see what materials we need to upgrade our ships and that is not possible with the current version or with the new for casual players.

That needs to be addressed and for me is its only real stumbling block.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

See that sounds like it's worse than the current system for casual players. Currently when I unlock a new engineer, for example Broo I dumped common nickel and shield emitters on sturdy weapon rolls until G5. At that point I pin the overcharged mod that I actually want. Typically I have the materials for one roll there and then because the previous rolls haven't touched the resources for the G5 roll I'm after. I pin that mod and all later weapon mods are doable after 1-2 hours farming (resources for 1 roll per weapon. So an initial wall then a smaller investment for each G5 mod after that.

On the new system you burn all your materials to get the desired materials at the broker for one complete G1-G5 upgrade. In some ways this initial wall is no different than before. But now each time you want to upgrade a module you need to farm twice as much rare materials so you can trade down for the intermediate upgrade materials or farm a large amount of basic materials to trade up. There is also the added chance of getting stuck at G3/4 if rolls go against you and you are short of materials for that stage but have the materials for G5. It's a fresh wall everytime you go upgrade a module. As has been stated before it's only the hardcore who would roll multiple times at G5 to get top teir upgrades that are benefitting from this. That's great but there were plenty ways you could done that and not screwed everyone else.

You are not taking into account the materials you will be getting while looking for those rare materials, which you would have to do in the old system. But in the old system you wouldn't pick them up due to material space constraints. Now you have none of those issues. You pick them all up until you hit your 100 limit.

So by the time you have farmed you rare mats, you will already have a huge amount of lower mats already.

As to you putting on the sturdy mod instead of getting the overcharged, you did that because you didn't have the mats. Now it will be far easier to have the mats in your possession as stated above. You shouldnt need to do the sturdy at all.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

To all of you who complained about the G1-5 "grind", I hate you. Really. Why did you scare me like that. Now I see that with the materials trader this is a COMPLETE non-issue. I'm gonna go into the update with like 500 MEF and EFCs and never worry about this stuff again.

How are you going to store 500 MEFs?