The Quest To Find Raxxla

[Darrack]

I think @Maidor made some good points. particularly this idea:

Although I personally agree with others in the idea that Raxxla has likely been updated at least once, as we saw with the Zurara, I still think it's really valuable to actually list out and see what the possibilities are.

Let's explore some of the plausible Raxxlas that have been put forward here over the years. I've made a start below, and tried to arrange them from "easiest" to "hardest" to implement and maintain in the game - input most welcome in better defining these or adding more versions

Spoiler: 6 Hypothesis' based on this thread on "what Raxxla is"

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Hypothesis 1: Barren Moon​

View attachment 334053
Raxxla is a barren non-atmospheric moon or planet. Optionally on the surface is a (Horizons) planetary outpost built to hide the Omphalos Rift by the Elites that have controlled it for centuries. The Rift is inside the station itself, it's inaccessible and not visible. A variant of this would be to replace the human port with a known alien object, like a Thargoid Surface Site or Guardian Ruins using existing assets.

Spoiler: How would you know it was Raxxla?

It could be indicated by one or more of the following:

1. It's very remote, thousands of lightyears from the bubble, therefore a planet with a large surface port stands out.
2. The planet or surface port is literally named 'Raxxla'.
3. The surface port has a significant name, i.e. "Omphalos Base".
4. The surface port is controlled by a faction with a significant name, i.e. "The Elite Federation of Pilots", or "the Dark Wheel".
5. When you approach the port/planet you get a rude/threatening comms message warning you away - you're denied landing permission.
   4 (a). As above, unless you're carrying a significant type of cargo and/or meet other criteria (allied/Elite/etc.), in which case you get a significant message of welcome and granted landing permission.
6. When you approach, a wing of Elite combat ships drop in and attack you, more attack you continually regardless of your criminal status or faction standings.
7. Any ships in system or near the base have significant names or pilot details, i.e. All-black ships flown by only Elite pilots, every ship is part of a significant faction (see above), and/or every ship is named in a strange way - '1230RXL'
8. Upon approach you get a comms message with a "congratulations you discovered Raxxla" message, i.e. the same style as the rank increase messages.
9. There's a beacon in orbit/on surface, when scanned it gives you a text-message that's significant, i.e. A Tourist Beacon containing a message confirming this is Raxxla.
10. ??

If Raxxla were some variant of Hypothesis 1, what would it take to put that in-game?​

Disclaimer: I'm no game developer so I have no idea. From what little I do know though I can make a start on this and more knowledgeable people can help fill in more details Assume all of these are literally just guesses, please do correct/add points to these!

Spoiler: What would it take to make this Raxxla?

1. Some coding that would obfuscate any significant ID tags or text identifiers from data mining or accidental discovery.
   1 (a) presumably this would need doing with everything, and so the more complex Raxxla is, the more that needs hiding and the larger and more complex this part is.
2. Some coding that would obfuscate the presence of factions/stations/trade/population from accidental discovery simply via the Galmap entry
3. Placing the base on this planet - it's got to be hand placed??
4. Creating the assets for anything unique about the logos, liveries, or decals on any ships or the port itself.
5. Coding the necessary systems to create factions/ship spawns in that specific area/system with that specific faction - must surely be hand-coded?
6. Coding the necessary comms or beacon messages
   6(a). Writing the necessary text - getting it approved and checked for accuracy
   6(a). As above, but include voice acting scripting, hiring, recording, integrating into the game.
7. Coding the necessary 'discovery' triggers for unique comms messages.
8. Playtesting, bugfixing.
9. ??

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Hypothesis 2: Orbital Station​

View attachment 334054
Raxxla is a planet of any non-landable type, and orbiting it is an Coriolis station crewed by the Elites that have controlled the secret of Raxxla for centuries. The Omphalos Rift may be on the surface of the inaccessible world below, or it may be inside the station itself. Either way, the rift itself is inaccessible and unseen.

Spoiler: Discussion points:

How would you know it was Raxxla?​

It could be indicated by one or more of the following:

1. It's very remote, thousands of lightyears from the bubble, therefore a planet with a an orbital station stands out.
   1(a). The planet may show a population (lights on the dark side, comms chatter from it, Galmap shows it to have a population, etc.)
2. The station has a significant name, i.e. "Omphalos Orbital".
3. The station is controlled by a faction with a significant name, i.e. "The Elite Federation of Pilots", or "the Dark Wheel".
4. Features visible on/in the station are unique and significant.
5. When you approach the port/planet you get a rude/threatening comms message warning you away - you're denied landing permission.
   4 (a). As above, unless you're carrying a significant type of cargo and/or meet other criteria (allied/Elite/etc.), in which case you get a significant message of welcome and granted landing permission.
6. When you approach, a wing of Elite combat ships drop in and attack you regardless of your criminal status or faction standings.
7. Any ships in system or near the station have significant names or pilot details, i.e. All-black ships flown by only Elite pilots, every ship is part of a significant faction (see above), and/or every ship is named in a strange way - '1230RXL'
8. Upon approach you get a comms message with a "congratulations you discovered Raxxla" message, i.e. the same style as the rank increase messages.
9. There's a beacon in orbit, when scanned it gives you a text-message that's significant, i.e. A Tourist Beacon containing a message confirming this is Raxxla.
10. ??

If Raxxla were some variant of Hypothesis 2, what would it take to put that in-game?​

Disclaimer: I'm no game developer so I have no idea. From what little I do know though I can make a start on this and more knowledgeable people can help fill in more details Assume all of these are literally just guesses, please do correct/add points to these!

Spoiler: What would it take to make this Raxxla?

1. Some coding that would obfuscate any significant ID tags or text identifiers from data mining or accidental discovery.
   1 (a) presumably this would need doing with everything, and so the more complex Raxxla is, the more that needs hiding and the larger and more complex this part is.
2. Some coding that would obfuscate the presence of factions/stations/trade/population from accidental discovery simply via the Galmap entry
3. Placing the station around this planet - it's got to be hand placed??
4. Placing this particular planet type (assuming it's not simply picked from what Stellar Forge made).
5. Creating the assets for anything unique about the logos, liveries, or decals on any ships or the station itself.
   4 (a). Creating new station assets if the interior docking bay of the station isn't one of the standard set.
6. Coding the necessary systems to create factions/ship spawns in that specific area/system with that specific faction - must surely be hand-coded?
7. Coding the necessary comms or beacon messages
   6(a). Writing the necessary text - getting it approved and checked for accuracy
   6(a). As above, but include voice acting scripting, hiring, recording, integrating into the game.
8. Coding the necessary 'discovery' triggers for unique comms messages.
9. Playtesting, bugfixing.
10. ??

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Hypothesis 3: Celestial Object​

View attachment 334055
Raxxla is a black hole, one very specific one. A variant of this could have an Outpost orbiting it crewed by the Elites that have controlled the secret of Raxxla for centuries. Interacting with it does nothing.

Spoiler: Discussion points:

How would you know it was Raxxla?​

It could be indicated by one or more of the following:

1. It's very remote, thousands of lightyears from the bubble, therefore a black hole with a an orbital outpost stands out.
2. The outpost has a significant name, i.e. "Omphalos Observatory".
3. The outpost is controlled by a faction with a significant name, i.e. "The Elite Federation of Pilots", or "the Dark Wheel".
4. Features visible on/in the outpost are unique and significant.
5. When you approach the port/planet you get a rude/threatening comms message warning you away - you're denied landing permission.
   4 (a). As above, unless you're carrying a significant type of cargo and/or meet other criteria (allied/Elite/etc.), in which case you get a significant message of welcome.
6. When you approach, a wing of Elite combat ships drop in and attack you regardless of your criminal status or faction standings.
7. Any ships in system or near the black hole have significant names or pilot details, i.e. All-black ships flown by only Elite pilots, every ship is part of a significant faction (see above), and/or every ship is named in a strange way - '1230RXL'
8. Upon approach you get a comms message with a "congratulations you discovered Raxxla" message, i.e. the same style as the rank increase messages.
9. There's a beacon in orbit, when scanned it gives you a text-message that's significant, i.e. A Tourist Beacon containing a message confirming this is Raxxla.
10. ??

If Raxxla were some variant of Hypothesis 3, what would it take to put that in-game?​

Disclaimer: I'm no game developer so I have no idea. From what little I do know though I can make a start on this and more knowledgeable people can help fill in/correct more details Assume all of these are literally just guesses, please do correct/add points to these!

Spoiler: What would it take to make this Raxxla?

1. Some coding that would obfuscate any significant ID tags or text identifiers from data mining or accidental discovery.
   1 (a) presumably this would need doing with everything, and so the more complex Raxxla is, the more that needs hiding and the larger and more complex this part is.
2. Some coding that would obfuscate the presence of factions/stations/trade/population from accidental discovery simply via the Galmap entry
3. Placing the outpost around this black hole - it's got to be hand placed??
4. Creating the assets for anything unique about the logos, liveries, or decals on any ships or the outpost itself.
   4 (a). Creating new assets for the black hole if it's visually distinct in any way at all.
5. Coding the necessary systems to create factions/ship spawns in that specific area/system with that specific faction - must surely be hand-coded?
6. Coding the necessary comms or beacon messages
   6(a). Writing the necessary text - getting it approved and checked for accuracy
   6(a). As above, but include voice acting scripting, hiring, recording, integrating into the game.
7. Coding the necessary 'discovery' triggers for unique comms messages.
8. Playtesting, bugfixing.
9. ??

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Hypothesis 4: Alien Structures​

View attachment 334058
Raxxla is a planet or an alien artefact of a type similar to the Thargoid Surface Sites, Guardian Ruins, Thargoid probes, etc. There could be ruins or other special indicators on the planet itself. The (non functioning) Omphalos Rift may be in orbit or on the surface, but either way it's a unique object unlike anything else in the game. However: nothing exceeds the scale or accessibility of the Thargoid surface Sites, crashed ships, ancient Guardian Ruins, or known planetary-geological features. E.g.: Nothing like a Niven Ring, Dyson Sphere, planet-sized stargate, etc.

Personally I think this is a less likely overall scenario to have been in-game from near the beginning. I've lumped several lower-probability but similar ideas together. I think these are at least possible* because for all we know the Guardian and Thargoid stuff was prototyped earlier on a small scale with the technologies and techniques necessary to make Raxxla. All these ideas are essentially the same game mechanics, technology and interactions that we experienced with Thargoid and later Guardian content - so it's not unreasonable, although it is much less likely than the other hypothesis'.

* Due to the technology in-game at the time that would be needed to pull this off.

Spoiler: Discussion points:

How would you know it was Raxxla?​

It could be indicated by one of more of the following list.

1. None of the Alien structures match Guardian or Thargoid visual style/naming/etc.
2. Approaching the Alien Structure triggers some significant but never before seen effect, i.e. the Guardian Relic pillars rising up when in proximity
3. Scanning the Alien structure reveals a significant name, i.e. "Raxxlan Structure".
4. When you approach the planet/artefact you get a comms message warning you away, unless you're Elite in which case you get a significant message of welcome from some anonymous person, i.e. the same way Ram Tah 'hacks your comms' to ask for help when you first visit Guardian Ruins..
5. When you approach, a wing of Elite combat ships drop in and attack you regardless of your criminal status or faction standings.
6. Any human ships in system or near the Alien Structures have significant names or pilot details, i.e. All-black ships flown by only Elite pilots, every ship is part of a significant faction (see above), and/or every ship is named in a strange way - '1230RXL'
7. Upon approach you get a comms message with a "congratulations you discovered Raxxla" message, i.e. the same style as the rank increase messages.
8. There's a beacon in orbit, when scanned it gives you a text-message that's significant, i.e. A Tourist Beacon containing a message confirming this is Raxxla.
9. Scanning or approaching the Alien Structures or planet will generate a previously unseen sound or visual effect, i.e. flashing, moving, or emitting sounds like some of the celestial life forms found in space, or the Thargoid artefacts.
   9 (a). The sound or visual effect contains coded information, i.e. the Thargoid items containing coded messages, decoding it reveals significant information
10. Scanning a discovered alien object gives coded information, the coded information leads to another puzzle, eventually confirming Raxxla as any one or more of the above Hypothesis, i.e. The Thargoid discovery cycle: 'Find strange object >decipher clue >goal reveal' that can be linked together and repeated as long as necessary - Raxxla is confirmed by the clues and methods of discovery, the same way we all knew the 'Unknown Aliens' were most likely Thargoids long before 'the game confirmed it' by meta knowledge and piecing together background storytelling from the clues and discoveries.
11. ??

If Raxxla were some variant of Hypothesis 4, what would it take to put that in-game?​

Disclaimer: I'm no game developer so I have no idea. From what little I do know though I can make a start on this and more knowledgeable people can help fill in/correct more details Assume all of these are literally just guesses, please do correct/add points to these!

Spoiler: What would it take to make this Raxxla?

1. Some coding that would obfuscate any significant ID tags or text identifiers from data mining or accidental discovery.
   1 (a) presumably this would need doing with everything, and so the more complex Raxxla is, the more that needs hiding and the larger and more complex this part is.
2. Some coding that would obfuscate the presence of factions/stations/trade/population from accidental discovery simply via the Galmap entry
3. Placing the assets on/around the planet - they are presumably hand-placed?
4. Concept artwork and iteration to develop the look and feel of the alien structures.
5. Design iteration of the unique interaction processes.
6. Creating the assets for anything unique about the logos, liveries, or decals on any ships or any alien artefact itself (like the logo on the barnacles).
7. Creating new assets for every pat of the Alien Structure - this includes 3D models, textures, lighting... things...? more technical stuff?
8. Coding any 'active' elements in the Alien Structures - moving bits, animated elements, interactable parts.
9. Creating unique sounds and vfx for the Alien Structures.
10. Developing and implementing any hidden codes into the visuals or sounds of the Alien Structures
11. Coding the necessary systems to create factions/ship spawns in that specific area/system with that specific faction - must surely be hand-coded?
12. Coding the necessary comms or beacon messages
    8(a). Writing the necessary text - getting it approved and checked for accuracy
    8(a). As above, but include voice acting scripting, hiring, recording, integrating into the game.
13. Coding the necessary 'discovery' triggers for unique comms messages.
14. Playtesting, bugfixing.
15. ??

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Hypothesis 5: Distant Exotic​

View attachment 334086
Raxxla is an exotic and unique non-landable planet, with a visually unique texture like a plasma world or ecumenopolis, or an artefact of a type similar to a Niven Ring, or full Dyson Sphere, etc.

Personally I think this is another less likely overall scenario to have been in-game from near the beginning*. I've lumped several similar* ones together. The idea of a 'distant object' that's clearly strange, new and different but otherwise unreachable is possible, particularly if the only true interaction is visually at a distance. All of these options could be done with something as relatively simple as a unique texture graphic so long as no interaction is needed. For example jumping into the system containing Raxxla, a binary, and seeing the above Niven Ring image around the distant B star - but due to 'local stellar factors' your Supercruise drive doesn't work so there's no way to get closer, you can jump in-and-out and maybe interact with more conventional systems near the A star (could be any of the above Hypothesis; stations, ships, etc). Similarly a sci-fi variant of a Dyson Sphere could be created by changing the entire skybox of one system to resemble the surface of worlds, again simply disabling supercruise would prevent the illusion from breaking. An exotic planet type that you can only orbit would, again, 'only' require a unique texture that's visible from orbit and is therefore no more complicated than Earth, Luna, or Mars (custom planet textures as opposed to procedural).

* Due to the technology in-game at the dev time that would be needed to pull this off.

Spoiler: Discussion points:

How would you know it was Raxxla?​

It could be indicated by one of more of the following list.

1. A completely unique and previously unseen distant stellar object that's astonishing (i.e. Niven Ring)
   1(a). As above, but a unique planet texture
   1(b). As above, but a total or partial skybox change
2. When you approach the planet or jump into the correct system you get a comms message warning you away, unless you're Elite in which case you get a significant message of welcome from some anonymous person, i.e. the same way Ram Tah 'hacks your comms' to ask for help when you first visit Guardian Ruins.
3. When nearby the planet or in the system a wing of Elite combat ships drop in and attack you regardless of your criminal status or faction standings.
4. Any human ships in system or near the exotic planet have significant names or pilot details, i.e. All-black ships flown by only Elite pilots, every ship is part of a significant faction (see above), and/or every ship is named in a strange way - '1230RXL'
5. Upon approach to the exotic planet or arrival in the system you get a comms message with a "congratulations you discovered Raxxla" message, i.e. the same style as the rank increase messages.
6. There's a beacon in orbit of the sun or planet, when scanned it gives you a text-message that's significant, i.e. A Tourist Beacon containing a message confirming this is Raxxla.
7. Supercruise failure immediately after hyperspace jump to prevent in-system travel.
8. ??

If Raxxla were some variant of Hypothesis 5, what would it take to put that in-game?​

Disclaimer: I'm no game developer so I have no idea. From what little I do know though I can make a start on this and more knowledgeable people can help fill in/correct more details Assume all of these are literally just guesses, please do correct/add points to these!

Spoiler: What would it take to make this Raxxla?

1. Some coding that would obfuscate any significant ID tags or text identifiers from data mining or accidental discovery.
   1 (a) presumably this would need doing with everything, and so the more complex Raxxla is, the more that needs hiding and the larger and more complex this part is.
2. Some coding that would obfuscate the presence of factions/stations/trade/population from accidental discovery simply via the Galmap entry
3. Placing the exotic assets in system or in that particular skybox.
4. Concept artwork and iteration to develop the look and feel of the planet or distant object or skybox.
5. Creating the assets for anything unique about the logos, liveries, or decals on any ships.
6. Creating new assets for the distant artefact or exotic planetary texture - this includes 3D models(?), textures, lighting... things...? more technical stuff?
7. Creating unique sounds and vfx for the exotic world or sounds for the distant artefact.
8. Developing and implementing any hidden codes into the visuals or sounds of the Alien Structures
9. Coding the necessary systems to create factions/ship spawns in that specific area/system with that specific faction - must surely be hand-coded?
10. Coding the necessary comms or beacon messages
    8(a). Writing the necessary text - getting it approved and checked for accuracy
    8(a). As above, but include voice acting scripting, hiring, recording, integrating into the game.
11. Coding the necessary 'discovery' triggers for unique comms messages.
12. Coding a conditional disabling of Supercruise mode only, while retaining the Jump function to allow exit.
13. Playtesting, bugfixing.
14. ??

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Hypothesis 6: Exotic Location​

View attachment 334088
Raxxla is within Witchspace, or a parallel dimension, or other extreme and exotic environment like the inside of black hole or wormhole.

Personally I think this is another less likely overall scenario to have been in-game from near the beginning*. I've lumped several similar* ones together. Since a hyperspace jump is functionally translating you from one instance to another while displaying the witchspace environment, then there no reason a hypserspace jump can't land you in any environment the devs want to create. Getting 'stuck inside Witchspace' and finding Raxxla could be easily as possible as the above 'distant exotic' hypothesis. Transitioning from one location to another using a similar but visually distinct system to a hyperspace jump is also entirely feasible; from what I know a Thargoid Hyperdiction event is a specific type of witchspace jump environment that's loaded instead of a normal one when certain system flags are met. The game simply loads "hyperdiction" instead of "transfer to next system". To us it looks like a normal hyperspace jump until it goes wrong, but it's actually a different mechanism. Using that same mechanic the Devs could code a transition from anywhere into a custom location. Even something like a certain black hole could force-trigger a custom instance transition and land you in a unique instance. That method could have existed since the first day of the game and been re-used for Hyperdictions.

* Due to the technology in-game at the dev time that would be needed to pull this off.

Spoiler: Discussion points:

How would you know it was Raxxla?​

It could be indicated by one of more of the following list.

1. Using some method or system to trigger a special hyperjump, or entering a specific black hole, etc.
2. A completely unique and previously unseen environment, likely reached by a hyperspace jump.
3. Some HUD indicator of a non-standard jump - similar to the warnings and visuals of a Hyperdiction.
4. Upon arrival in the exotic environment you get a comms message with a "congratulations you discovered Raxxla" message, i.e. the same style as the rank increase messages.
5. There's a beacon in the exotic environment, when scanned it gives you a text-message that's significant, i.e. A Tourist Beacon containing a message confirming this is Raxxla.
6. Any of the previous Hypothesis components, i.e. there could be a planet in the exotic location that's essentially Hypothesis 1 or 2, with all the associated systems.
7. ??

If Raxxla were some variant of Hypothesis 6, what would it take to put that in-game?​

Disclaimer: I'm no game developer so I have no idea. From what little I do know though I can make a start on this and more knowledgeable people can help fill in/correct more details Assume all of these are literally just guesses, please do correct/add points to these!

Spoiler: What would it take to make this Raxxla?

1. Some coding that would obfuscate any significant ID tags or text identifiers from data mining or accidental discovery.
   1 (a) presumably this would need doing with everything, and so the more complex Raxxla is, the more that needs hiding and the larger and more complex this part is.
2. Some coding that would cause an 'exotic transition' instead of the normal hyperspace jump (similar to trigger conditions for a Hyperdiction)
3. Coding the mechanics of the exotic transition (similar to a Hyperdiction where the ship flips around and HUD warnings trigger)
4. Coding unique HUD warnings and effects necessary for an exotic environment.
5. Placing the exotic assets in the exotic location.
6. Concept artwork and iteration to develop the look and feel of the environment.
7. Creating the assets for anything unique about the logos, liveries, or decals on any ships.
8. Creating new assets for the exotic environment - this includes 3D models(?), textures, lighting... things...? more technical stuff?
9. Creating unique sounds and vfx for the exotic environment and/or the exotic transition.
10. Developing and implementing any hidden codes into the visuals or sounds of the trigger conditions, or clues to the trigger conditions.
11. Coding the necessary 'discovery' triggers for any unique comms messages.
12. Anything from any other Hypothesis that relates to Raxxla specifically rather than the location it's in (for example, the planet Raxxla from Hypothesis 1 or 2 is located inside the exotic area, and will therefore need some or all of the requirements of those Hypothetical versions in addition to what's necessary for the location.
13. Playtesting, bugfixing.
14. ??

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As per Maidor's suggestion, it's reasonable to assume that we need to consider not only the effort to implement 'Raxxla' in the first place, and what is feasible technologically, but also what's needed to keep it running across updates, patches, and staff changes. Also consider that there's been no leak, and nothing has been data mined or even accidentally discovered via bugs in 8 years (that we're able to identify as Raxxla related), it's easier to keep smaller and simpler things secret over longer timeframes...

What do you all think?

I used to be convinced that it was hidden in plain sight.
Its in game but not accessible would be the easiest way to keep control of the release of the narrative.
Control is everything with something this important

I had a career in Entertainment deception, getting VIPs and Artists to hotels and venues without the media or fans knowing where they were.
Booking entire hotel floors, employing makeup artists for disguises, using local plated old cars that you would never think wealthy folks would use, all a ruse.
But often it’s the things right in front of people’s noses that attract less scrutiny, I once walked the headliner out of the west Brompton entrance at Earls Court holding my arm like she was my girlfriend, and nobody batted an eyelid.

So for me maybe a hidden moon around Jupiter or a base that everyone visits with a secret pad wouldn’t be so farfetched.

But I am of the opinion that it’s a gateway, for one reason, my dad brought me the original Alien World book back in 1980 and it fascinated me, later seeing it in the Novella (1984??) it made me smile but im still of the opinion that its how it was described – Oisir Raxxla ‘Sector’.

What we are looking for is that gateway to another world which is why in my opinion it has not been discovered yet because until that other destination (which would be a huge task) has been programmed its just a locked door.

With the Mars stuff and everything else im leaning towards a connection with SOL.
I think it’s a great story but as with how I used to control things my guess is it will be found when they want us to find it.

This is why Elite is so unique, i dont think ive ever played a game with a mystery quiet like this with so many people devoting so much time, i really hope when it happens its everything you folks imagined.

O7

 

[Rochester]

If in game from the start and accessible (yes, yes, yes I know)…

Then it should utilise mechanisms present from that time, granted it’s shape and appearance could have been and likely was modified over time.

Is it an object or a concept?

A ‘concept’ is easier, although it’s been speculated that Brookes said ‘it’s not textural’.

The ‘concept’ could be anything, like a cornerstone to understanding it’s all a simulation, or we’re Guardians, or Guardians left over food, or we’re the Aliens and this is the Thargoids galaxy… yadayada… but said content couldn’t divert nor skip the narrative… maybe it was foreshadowing?

If not a concept, then likely it’s a free floating body, moon, alien outpost or vessel / artifac eg a gold brick…etc. in some backwater dull system, not named Raxxla.

I like all of the ideas above but I presume that’s too much, if so much cool content was utilised, FD would want us to find it, so it’s more likely ‘dark’ as in inactive with zero fan-fair, you having to scan it to identity it or activate it.

The question being what does it do?

Well I doubt it makes us faster, or harder to kill or better at killing, because it would mean eventually everyone will likewise achieve this. A bit like Guardian stuff.

Said item would need to have been achievable from day one…?

Personally if it was achievable from day one, I suspect whatever it ought to unlock has had to have been always narrative…

My bet it was a key, to identify some other location or object that took us towards another part of the narrative and so on and so forth, that fits FD modus operandi.

It might originally have been Guardian I highly suspect… I do believe FD then changed it so now it’s likely something else entirely… but still narrative, and when FD want that to happen they will unlock it, and tell us where to look.

Ultimate it’s likely new method of travelling other than FLT. Or a new sector of space…currently off limits… Something they haven’t built yet. Again I dont suspect we could have used that from on day one… but rather it’s a ‘story to be played out in game’ - ‘nothing to say at this time’…

In M Brookes un-written book he describes a narrative where man awakens an old terror and fights it to secure / safeguard some prize, all tied to Paradise Lost, eg Heaven Gate…

I now suspect we are in the middle of that narrative, about 49.9% the way through.

At some point FD will turn the older DW mission back on, they will activate some other clues, taking us on some other journey.

Or they won’t and it’s simply in Delphi and we wait for FD to drop the key, unless they already have; or it’s elsewhere…

Or we have to wait out the unfolding narrative, when close to that end FD allow us to find it… ‘the payoff ought to be huge’….

So to try and recap; I suspect it originally was all ‘mission’ driven, foreshadowing, but ultimately would never be actually resolved… by us, being reliant on FD writing and building new ‘mission’ driven content… but that got bugged or we were too good / fast or it was too costly for FD to run or they were overly reliant on one person; so FD nerfed that idea, essentially parked that concept, moved staff on etc… essentially took control of the narrative from our hands and parked it until now.

The objective was/is likely either something to do with something after the current oncoming war, a safe harbour, or a different FLT drive to a new part of the galaxy or maybe the caretakers… our guardian angels a third ‘alien species’ to interact with.

But I suspect it was originally a series of Easter eggs to a Holdstock reference not part of our bigger narrative, but it got changed and then ‘incorporated’ into FDs more ‘hands off’ on rails narrative.

Or it’s just out there… there are a lot of locked sectors which have been shut off for almost 10 years! I hope that’s the case, that’s why I quest, to prove those doubts wrong and hopefully find something that proves the original context is still true.

If from day one, and not something linked to any ‘story’, it’s then an Easter egg, that unlocks something not tied to or that could effect the current narrative…so I don’t believe it’s anything big or amazing, if it is then it has to be narratively locked, or so separate from the current narrative but likewise something not as good as the current outcome for this narrative!

Our problem is FD stated there was a big payoff… that confuses things, unless it’s one and the same.

 

[SongOfTheVoid]

If in game from the start and accessible (yes, yes, yes I know)…

Then it should utilise mechanisms present from that time, granted it’s shape and appearance could have been and likely was modified over time.

Is it an object or a concept?

A ‘concept’ is easier, although it’s been speculated that Brookes said ‘it’s not textural’.

The ‘concept’ could be anything, like a cornerstone to understanding it’s all a simulation, or we’re Guardians, or Guardians left over food, or we’re the Aliens and this is the Thargoids galaxy… yadayada… but said content couldn’t divert nor skip the narrative… maybe it was foreshadowing?

If not a concept, then likely it’s a free floating body, moon, alien outpost or vessel / artifac eg a gold brick…etc. in some backwater dull system, not named Raxxla.

I like all of the ideas above but I presume that’s too much, if so much cool content was utilised, FD would want us to find it, so it’s more likely ‘dark’ as in inactive with zero fan-fair, you having to scan it to identity it or activate it.

The question being what does it do?

Well I doubt it makes us faster, or harder to kill or better at killing, because it would mean eventually everyone will likewise achieve this. A bit like Guardian stuff.

Said item would need to have been achievable from day one…?

Personally if it was achievable from day one, I suspect whatever it ought to unlock has had to have been always narrative…

My bet it was a key, to identify some other location or object that took us towards another part of the narrative and so on and so forth, that fits FD modus operandi.

It might originally have been Guardian I highly suspect… I do believe FD then changed it so now it’s likely something else entirely… but still narrative, and when FD want that to happen they will unlock it, and tell us where to look.

Ultimate it’s likely new method of travelling other than FLT. Or a new sector of space…currently off limits… Something they haven’t built yet. Again I dont suspect we could have used that from on day one… but rather it’s a ‘story to be played out in game’ - ‘nothing to say at this time’…

In M Brookes un-written book he describes a narrative where man awakens an old terror and fights it to secure / safeguard some prize, all tied to Paradise Lost, eg Heaven Gate…

I now suspect we are in the middle of that narrative, about 49.9% the way through.

At some point FD will turn the older DW mission back on, they will activate some other clues, taking us on some other journey.

Or they won’t and it’s simply in Delphi and we wait for FD to drop the key, unless they already have; or it’s just above the bubble… and we have to find it on the outer rim?

Or we have to wait out the unfolding narrative, when close to that end FD allow us to find it… ‘the payoff ought to be huge’….

So I suspect it originally was ‘mission’ driven, foreshadowed the Guardians, got bugged so FD nerfed it, but now it’s something else, the solution to the current oncoming war, a safe harbour, or a different FLT drive…or maybe the caretakers… our guardian angels!

The Guardians used it, TDW Never found it... I hate to break it to you but we are basically still in the Prologue... Its not bugged either, nor is it perm locked it literally functions like clockwork as it always has...

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

If in game from the start and accessible (yes, yes, yes I know)…

Then it should utilise mechanisms present from that time, granted it’s shape and appearance could have been and likely was modified over time.

Is it an object or a concept?

A ‘concept’ is easier, although it’s been speculated that Brookes said ‘it’s not textural’.

The ‘concept’ could be anything, like a cornerstone to understanding it’s all a simulation, or we’re Guardians, or Guardians left over food, or we’re the Aliens and this is the Thargoids galaxy… yadayada… but said content couldn’t divert nor skip the narrative… maybe it was foreshadowing?

If not a concept, then likely it’s a free floating body, moon, alien outpost or vessel / artifac eg a gold brick…etc. in some backwater dull system, not named Raxxla.

I like all of the ideas above but I presume that’s too much, if so much cool content was utilised, FD would want us to find it, so it’s more likely ‘dark’ as in inactive with zero fan-fair, you having to scan it to identity it or activate it.

The question being what does it do?

Well I doubt it makes us faster, or harder to kill or better at killing, because it would mean eventually everyone will likewise achieve this. A bit like Guardian stuff.

Said item would need to have been achievable from day one…?

Personally if it was achievable from day one, I suspect whatever it ought to unlock has had to have been always narrative…

My bet it was a key, to identify some other location or object that took us towards another part of the narrative and so on and so forth, that fits FD modus operandi.

It might originally have been Guardian I highly suspect… I do believe FD then changed it so now it’s likely something else entirely… but still narrative, and when FD want that to happen they will unlock it, and tell us where to look.

Ultimate it’s likely new method of travelling other than FLT. Or a new sector of space…currently off limits… Something they haven’t built yet. Again I dont suspect we could have used that from on day one… but rather it’s a ‘story to be played out in game’ - ‘nothing to say at this time’…

In M Brookes un-written book he describes a narrative where man awakens an old terror and fights it to secure / safeguard some prize, all tied to Paradise Lost, eg Heaven Gate…

I now suspect we are in the middle of that narrative, about 49.9% the way through.

At some point FD will turn the older DW mission back on, they will activate some other clues, taking us on some other journey.

Or they won’t and it’s simply in Delphi and we wait for FD to drop the key, unless they already have; or it’s just above the bubble… and we have to find it on the outer rim?

Or we have to wait out the unfolding narrative, when close to that end FD allow us to find it… ‘the payoff ought to be huge’….

So I suspect it originally was ‘mission’ driven, foreshadowed the Guardians, got bugged so FD nerfed it, but now it’s something else, the solution to the current oncoming war, a safe harbour, or a different FLT drive…or maybe the caretakers… our guardian angels!

Humor me here because this is to illustrate a possible solution but also the scope creep we face because we don't know what we are looking for at all. We really need to find something that nails down what this is exactly (the mythical dark station would help a great deal). Otherwise, we may have stumbled across things that were important yet deemed trivial.

Perhaps concept but also concrete things but a lot of them. Though, before we get into that per Alien World Oisir-Raxxla Sector wasn't just a mere sector but a galaxy either orbiting the Milky Way or in another dimension. The Dark Wheel is also in this book and was in an area outside of the Human sector known as the Naranthu Sector. Notably the Naranthu were copper skinned which is feature unique to humans who stay in Bedaho (present home of Astrogator Tours which itself is part of Saud Kruger). I believe the Saud Kruger "goldskins" are referenced in the Codex for that Corporation. Anyway, The Dark Wheel was additionally another name for the galaxy itself. The Naranthu also have space suits similar to the spacesuits in Elite Dangerous core and Horizons expansion and are notable for bipedal, 5 fingers, and a legend of Uurth (their Mother World). The Naranthu were also connected to a story of a generation ship that traversed a warp fault and was sent across space and time. There is also Talmor Lens which may be the multitude of procedural buildings, artificial power sources, and artificial structures found via DSS scans. That said, I still think it is possible Faraway exists to this day but was basically the Talmor Lens repaired by humans (book said it was built wrong at Earth) giving us hyperspace/Witchspace as there are a great many antenna at stations, outposts, planetary ports, and whatever you call the giant stadium-like port cities. We had fuel scooping since the beginning. Sidewinders could also wake scan and follow the craft they were escorting that were warp capable as the Sidewinder wasn't. The point being Talmor sounds suspiciously like Faraway and had millions of lenses, stabilizers, power harnesses, and structures both orbital and planetary (perhaps all the orbital and planetary installations). It was all connected to a specific globular cluster of stars that were termed the Saramandara Pearls. It is possible that the "place that isn't a place" could be something gigantic like the whole galaxy.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

The Guardians used it, TDW Never found it... I hate to break it to you but we are basically still in the Prologue... Its not bugged either, nor is it perm locked it literally functions like clockwork as it always has...

First problem, Soontill was Thargoid at least per "..And Here The Wheel". Let's not forget that both species seem to be utterly allergic to presence of the other. If Thargoids are behind Raxxla it will repulse Guardian technology. Correspondingly, if Guardian no Thargoid will go near it or it would have been destroyed. Seemingly, humans are the only ones foolhardy enough to touch both, let alone put either of their technology anywhere near the other.

You second problem is you are forgetting a certain 999 year problem in that "...And Here the Wheel" based on ships present happened approximately 3297 which is 999 years AFTER the Raxxla rumor.

Thirdly, even the experts had major problems validating Soontill Relics. Nevermind that Elvira Martuuk thought the Soontill Relics were a scam which is why she requested them to gain access to her facility. So, too, did the people who analyzed the artifacts in the GalNet "Soontill Relics Test Results Queried". This two paragraphs are important:

And the results? Inconclusive. The research team’s results clearly state that no known human technology could have created the relics, yet they do not quite align with known Thargoid materials. Whatever they are, they are indeed very old, with isotopic dating indicating that they could well be tens of thousands of years old.

Jean Molyneaux, a historian from France, Earth, suggests we look back at our own past to determine the home of these relics. “Imagine an alien travelling back two thousand years into mankind’s past. The varied culture, arts and building materials of the Aztecs, Greeks, the Shang dynasty, what have you, the alien could think they were all different species, if that was his way of thinking…”

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

I used to be convinced that it was hidden in plain sight.
Its in game but not accessible would be the easiest way to keep control of the release of the narrative.
Control is everything with something this important

I had a career in Entertainment deception, getting VIPs and Artists to hotels and venues without the media or fans knowing where they were.
Booking entire hotel floors, employing makeup artists for disguises, using local plated old cars that you would never think wealthy folks would use, all a ruse.
But often it’s the things right in front of people’s noses that attract less scrutiny, I once walked the headliner out of the west Brompton entrance at Earls Court holding my arm like she was my girlfriend, and nobody batted an eyelid.

So for me maybe a hidden moon around Jupiter or a base that everyone visits with a secret pad wouldn’t be so farfetched.

But I am of the opinion that it’s a gateway, for one reason, my dad brought me the original Alien World book back in 1980 and it fascinated me, later seeing it in the Novella (1984??) it made me smile but im still of the opinion that its how it was described – Oisir Raxxla ‘Sector’.

What we are looking for is that gateway to another world which is why in my opinion it has not been discovered yet because until that other destination (which would be a huge task) has been programmed its just a locked door.

With the Mars stuff and everything else im leaning towards a connection with SOL.
I think it’s a great story but as with how I used to control things my guess is it will be found when they want us to find it.

This is why Elite is so unique, i dont think ive ever played a game with a mystery quiet like this with so many people devoting so much time, i really hope when it happens its everything you folks imagined.

O7

Well, we dont know what it is, so we should expect anything.

But I cant see FD expending effort to program a whole sector just for an easter egg named Raxxla. Although it might be relatively easy to do with Stellar Forge, but that means it would exist on every player’s PC and be readily locatable by the data miners so IMHO highly unlikely.

I think if it’s an astronomical thing then it likely is just one object in a system - a planet or space station, existing on the FD server and downloaded to the player’s PC when they find the Omphalos Rift gateway. A space station might make sense against the logo, and could be one of the lost Guardian ark ships, though IIRC Thargoids were also originally said to have ships the size of moons (incoming Stargoid Wibbles perhaps?). It might even be the reputed Dark Wheel station, since that codex mention doesn’t seem to lead anywhere.

If the rumour is correct then MB said the system where Raxxla is located was entered but Raxxla was not discovered...could mean the Raxxla gateway (Omphalos Rift), but sounds more like Raxxla is a single thing. This is supported by hard evidence -MB definitely said (see FD Quotes link in my signature) that Raxxla “is a thing in the game world (not text) and very hard to find...It’s not a random thing....Anyone can find it and more than once”

I don’t now place much confidence in any meaning for the reputed child’s hand-sized alien artefact from Mars. It is possible that may be just a humorous tribute to the Arnold Schwarzeneger film Total Recall; there are also tributes to 2001 Space Odyssey in FD. And I’m fairly sure DB said Raxxla has been in-game since the gamma version; supported by the fact that Drew Wagar said DB told him that “Raxxla is in game” at the Bafta talk July 2014, but version 1.0 release wasn’t until 16th Dec 2014

So, it’s been in-game since July 2014, but is very hard to find. In a simulated universe of 400 billion systems (one of which, where Raxxla is located, has been entered but Raxxla was not detected), it’s not surprising it hasn't been found (we assume! It might have been found but kept secret!), there is no need to hypothesise that it hasn't been found so it hasn't been developed yet. If the Omphalos Rift must be triggered by a certain sequence of events (e.g. carry 5 Trinkets of Hidden Fortune into a specific station & rotate the ship 5 times before landing on the pad) that trigger event could be located anywhere, including somewhere so obvious as in Sol, and Raxxla might never be found. We are just assuming that FD have set a reasonably logical puzzle here.

And I still think, given DB’s love of astronomy that Raxxla might be something astronomically-related. It is only Holdstock’s books that told us Raxxla was a planet with an alien gateway to a different universe. ED has retconned a lot of old lore!

Edit: if it followed Holdstock’s novella we’d know what Raxxla is, but DB said we don't know, therefore it is something different!

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

Ok, just to keep you informed. Second account young clone Tyko has just dived the black hole star B in PSR J0737-3039A system, with no result.
IRL PSR J0737-3039A and B are "Marta's Pulsars", the only known double pulsar according to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSR_J0737−3039

In ED there are two co-located systems here, PSR J0737-3039A and PSR J0737-3039B. PSR J0737-3039B has a pulsar as the main star plus several gas giants and moons.
PSR J0737-3039A has the primary and tertiary stars as NS, with B as a black hole. Since I expected PSR J0737-3039A to be a handcrafted system due to its astronomical importance I was a bit surprised by the way these are laid out in-game, and intrigued by the double system- I can't see an astronomical catalogue used for game input only containing PSR J0737-3039B, so it seemed like perhaps a clue... But, as I said, nothing found in the BH

Beginning to run out of reasonably accessible gravitational wave sources...I know MB said it was a personal journey, which might imply it's a long way away. But FD were surprised when people reached SAG A* so quickly after game release, they thought it would take years for people to journey that far, so I feel that implies they would have located Raxxla not quite so far away. This system is 3,586 LY from Sol!
So my thoughts are turning back to HIP 68385 and that rather strange "comms installtion" Josie Rosa for a disguised Omphalos Rift...

Edit: have just supercharged at the NS primary stars in systems PSR J0737-3039A and PSR J0737-3039B, but each only gave the usual 4X boost. Now on my way to check otut the NS PSR J0737-3039A C, but it's 220,000ls away and I feel lunch will intervene, the copawlot is giving my left leg strange looks....

edit2:
made it with all limbs intact, copawlot definitely hungry though. Only got the usual 4x boost at PSR J0737-3039A C

Next stop Circinus Pulsar- only 16.4 kylies... 233 jumps!

 

[Louis Calvert]

I think my post outlined in detail "what Raxxla" could actually be given the limitations of the game, and considering the work involved in actually putting whatever it is in game. I could add to that and keep it updated with best possible expectations? Knowing what to expect Raxxla can in reality be (i.e. not some amazing but likely impractical daydream idea) would help dramatically narrow any searches down.

We already have all the awnsers, but we make the wrong questions.

Looking at all the evidence posted here and other sources. I belive the period of finding new ''clues'' is gone and we are starting to overlap conceps, probably all the steps are there, as said no information will be added. And I think all has been found.

I agree Maidor. These discussions just go round and round in circles and have been doing so for years and years. We have all that we can know. We need to think differently or try different ideas out in order to make progress.

So many people have come to the same or similar places when trying to decipher clues. That's highly significant, but sadly the "next step" just doesn't seem to happen, so people go off doing other stuff alone and unity and purpose breaks down even further.

There may well be clues or 'next steps' that need more than a single person to solve but... well... you proposed getting 33 people to spend a day testing an idea. I'll sign up for that, happy to help test any ideas or eliminate possible bugs, but... despite the fact there's more than 33 people reading this thread, I doubt many would actually want to go out of their way to physically help.

The question being what does it do?

That is a very important question. I personally think it doesn't do anything yet. I think finding it will trigger a new narrative phase of unlocking content, like discovering the Thargoid probes led in a chain to the Thargoid return. Finding Raxxla means Fdev then starts developing the "Raxxla is found" narrative. If we don't find it, I fully expect it'll happen anyway eventually since it's likely they've got the framework of that sketched out. Possibly as you suggested Fdev realised players were searching harder than anticipated so they closed off easy routes to it (like the missions), and kicked the can down the road - but them including the Codex entry 4 years ago suggests they may now be ready and willing to move on that and they really are waiting for it to be found now.

The Guardians used it, TDW Never found it... I hate to break it to you but we are basically still in the Prologue... Its not bugged either, nor is it perm locked it literally functions like clockwork as it always has...

The Guardian connection... If you can show evidence, I'm 100% excited to see it I'm happy to help test out or debunk anything that helps move things forwards. I do agree that we're stuck in the Prologue of Raxxla. The rest of the stuff you said, well I don't see how you can say that with any certainty. Most of your posts smack of belief more than investigation logic.

Though, before we get into that per Alien World Oisir-Raxxla Sector wasn't just a mere sector but a galaxy either orbiting the Milky Way or in another dimension. The Dark Wheel is also in this book and was in an area outside of the Human sector known as the Naranthu Sector.

As per my recent post, I've studied that book closely (as have a lot of other people) and I really think we need to jettison talk of "Alien World" until any one single part of it other than the word "Raxxla" relates in any way to Elite Dangerous. If you do have anything that's in the Elite Dangerous game that relates to Alien World other than Raxxla, I'd love to see it, that would be exciting. Otherwise, it's a dead end.

But I cant see FD expending effort to program a whole sector just for an easter egg named Raxxla. Although it might be relatively easy to do with Stellar Forge, but that means it would exist on every player’s PC and be readily locatable by the data miners so IMHO highly unlikely.

Agreed, as per my post here.

I think if it’s an astronomical thing then it likely is just one object in a system - a planet or space station, existing on the FD server and downloaded to the player’s PC when they find the Omphalos Rift gateway.

Even if the Raxxla data streams to a PC after/upon discovery that still means all the other stuff I talked about based on Maidor's post is true - maintenance, testing, etc. So that again leads to the idea that Raxxla is likely (currently) something extremely simple or small within the game, like Hypothesis 1 or 2, possibly 3 (which is what you're working on now). If it were anything more than the chances of leaks or data mining goes up considerably.

 

[Louis Calvert]

So my thoughts are turning back to HIP 68385 and that rather strange "comms installtion" Josie Rosa for a disguised Omphalos Rift...

Like I said a few days ago Jorki, I'm happy to help, tell me what to do!

I should go to HIP 68385 and see a comms installation? what then? What do you want tested?

 

[Louis Calvert]

@Jorki HIP 68385 takes me to HD 122027... is that correct?

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

As per my recent post, I've studied that book closely (as have a lot of other people) and I really think we need to jettison talk of "Alien World" until any one single part of it other than the word "Raxxla" relates in any way to Elite Dangerous. If you do have anything that's in the Elite Dangerous game that relates to Alien World other than Raxxla, I'd love to see it, that would be exciting. Otherwise, it's a dead end

Now should we stick to in-game things where proven, yes. This also prevents scope creep. This is partly why I consider shibboleths to be a part of the search especially given the connection with Church of the Path in Shibboleth system and the "Revised Catholic Mission" in Aymiay that further links to Olympic Village, Mars and Beta Hydri. This is why I specifically invested a good deal of effort into pinning down Veliaze (Zelada), Hope (Gateway), and Jones Colony, Essafa (Jones Colony, Yamatri) and otherwise unification of the lore by establishing so many connections back to Sol that it simply was impossible to ignore going as far back as The Dark Wheel novella and Lakon Spaceways in the first game and Elite Dangerous codex for Lakon Spaceways.

There are bolded sections of Alien World meant to be a focus of attention. The first of these involved the "Sargasso Sea of Space" which is in-game as a beacon in Luyten 205-128 (where Antares Incident happened). This also involves the "sirens" portion of The Alleged Toast of The Dark Wheel. See pages 22-23. I have suspected that some of these Commander submitted beacons are actually FDev dropping hints as more than a few of them link with official novel content - this is one such a beacon. Noteworthy, Ivixor B also showed up in a song title from a band "Electric Wizard" from UK. Their songs have a lot of weird and unexplained connections to Elite Dangerous and Alien World. Further bolded sections are on pages 42-43 (may link to Thargoid pods in the Codex), pages 57-60 (link unknown at this point), page 68-69 shows art looking suspiciously like human surface port layouts with a creature only visible via camera (see camera suite), pages 72-77 (a city-planet of steel, lake of stars, and discussion of what sounds like Witchspace), pages 88-94 (Zoni Federation and surroundings especially the Night Wall which sounds like Orion Nebula Molecular Cloud Complex which is region locked). There are apparently hints in the book to help us map out different locations and regions.

Note: The first few pages deal with the United States and Russia having the Space Race to the Moon. So, it isn't like there aren't a lack of references to Sol and other key locations. Further, there is discussion on how Talmor Lens is built incorrectly in Sol. Also, covered is presence of alien species in the Sol system at varying stages including Earth and Mars (which may link to Martian Relic).

 

[Louis Calvert]

There are bolded sections of Alien World meant to be a focus of attention. The first of these involved the "Sargasso Sea of Space" which is in-game as a beacon in Luyten 205-128 (where Antares Incident happened). This also involves the "sirens" portion of The Alleged Toast of The Dark Wheel. See pages 22-23. I have suspected that some of these Commander submitted beacons are actually FDev dropping hints - this is one such a beacon. Noteworthy, Ivixor B also showed up in a song title from a band "Electric Wizard" from UK. Their songs have a lot of weird and unexplained connections to Elite Dangerous and Alien World. Further bolded sections are on pages 42-43 (may link to Thargoid pods in the Codex), pages 57-60 (link unknown at this point), page 68-69 shows art looking suspiciously like human surface port layouts with a creature only visible via camera (see camera suite), pages 72-77 (a city-planet of steel, lake of stars, and discussion of what sounds like Witchspace), pages 88-94 (Zoni Federation and surroundings especially the Night Wall which sounds like Orion Nebula Molecular Cloud Complex which is region locked). There are apparently hints in the book to help us map out different locations and regions.

Note: The first few pages deal with the United States and Russia having the Space Race to the Moon. So, it isn't like there aren't a lack of references to Sol and other key locations. Further, there is discussion on how Talmor Lens is built incorrectly in Sol. Also, covered is presence of alien species in the Sol system at varying stages including Earth and Mars (which may link to Martian Relic).

That is all really good references to be honest. They could be clues! nice work Let's examine them:

Sargasso Sea is a commonly known location in contemporary culture, it also emerged into a wider public consciousness in the '60s and '70s - it's not unexpected to find it referenced in all sorts of literature and music because of this:

Wiki: "In July 1969, British businessman and amateur sailor Donald Crowhurst disappeared after his yacht became mired in the Sargasso Sea. He had been competing in the Sunday Times Golden Globe Race, a single-handed, round-the-world yacht race when his poorly-prepared boat began to take on water. He abandoned his circumnavigation attempt, but reported false positions by radio in an attempt to give the impression that he was still participating. Eventually, Crowhurst wound up drifting in the Sargasso Sea, where he deteriorated psychologically, filling his logbooks with metaphysical speculation and delusional comments. His last entry was July 1, and his yacht was found unoccupied and drifting on July 10. It is unclear whether his death came as the result of suicide or misadventure."

'Sirens' in anything could be anything, again they're popular in all sorts of space stories - honestly it's probably harder to find sci-fi (especially from the 60s-80s) that doesn't mention something like Sirens. For example there's at least one Episode of Red Dwarf that features literal (psyrens)sirens that suck brains after psychically ticking crews to land, but very few people suggest that as a reference source for Elite Dangerous sirens

The Ivixor B song title is from a 1996 album, it's entirely possible they took it from Alien World, I'm not seeing the connection between that and Elite Dangerous? It looks like they're one of the many bands that are inspired by sci-fi and fantasy It's a cool link to Alien World, but I can't see the link to Elite, could you elaborate that connection?

The Bold section from 42-43, do you mean "The Jelly Babies of Chorepsis VIII"? I can't see even one parallel there with Thargoids? Could you elaborate that one?

Pages 57-60...?

Pages 68-69... I mean that's literally artwork of an ELW with some buildings on it and a big bat-man-monster flying over it. I think this one is a real stretch. Any artwork depicting any settlement on the surface of any world and in piece of artwork could be said to look a bit like a surface settlement from Elite. The description does say the man-bat-monster can only be seen via a camera... but... the page before that has a picture of a barbarian warrior woman wielding a smoke sword riding a horse attacking a loin-cloth wearing muscle man... the images in the book are wild and varied...I don't see any connection to Elite from the 68-69 pic at all, sorry.

72-77 There is a talk of a 'tunnel of swirling light', Good catch! Although again I feel like the frame of reference that particular line is within is really more related to the general attitudes and styles of sci-fi fantasy of that era than a link to Elite Dangerous. This one feels like a stretch to link it to Elite Dangerous. You could more easily make a connection between the Monolith hyperspace tunnel from 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) or the Lightspeed jump from Star Wars (1977) which both preceded and heavily influenced a lot of FTL visuals and ideas, than to this description:

AW "In time this Narathnu, Nophenmep, resigned himself to death, and ceased to struggle. Twice about the lake of stars he had travelled, and knew this pool of fire to span a void wider than the void between galaxies: an immense lake of stars. Down he sank, down into coloured fire storms below, through the levels of space and time, at once in past and future, on this end and that end of the Universe, oscillating between places as far distant as thought can comprehend. Giant creatures swam there, their bodies dripping tongues of purple flame, their brains the pulsing, spinning forms of the dark compacted stars when death has taken all their light. Here the illusion, and delusion, broke: clear of mind and of eye he found himself to be travelling through a tunnel of swirling light, towards a place he could see was a spread of bright and wonderful stars, all reds and golds and youthful firecolours, a young galaxy, newly coalesced, and bursting with life. The journey through this tube of space seemed to take forever. He experienced fear, then sadness, then wonder, then anger. In time, and perhaps after a tenth of his life had past, he emerged into dark space, floating between the stars, close to a sun where he could detect a hundred worlds.

88-94 Honestly I can't comment on this since it's just like the rest of AW, a collection of strange words and aliens, I can't see anything in the pictures of text that makes me think of Elite Dangerous. Can you elaborate on this connection?

Yes, AW does mention Sol. As I said in my post, the connection here is functionally that you're saying "Alien World mentions Sol, Sol is in Elite, and therefore other things in Alien World are in Elite". Earth is mentioned in one of my all time favourite books, Larry Niven's Ringworld, and so is hyperspace travel, and so are mysterious aliens and quests to find stuff, and so are Martians that left relics under the sands of mars. That sort of general vibe is shared across a vast, vast portions of the sci-fi written around that time. The same sorts of ideas come up over and over again. The whole "aliens made the pyramids" was also in the zeitgeist at the time (shamfully) just as crazy fools still think lizard aliens from Saturn are controlling the earth right now, and again just because AW talks about aliens bearing the name Raxxla building the pyramids, doesn't mean the same as those things are related to Elite. That's why there's so many films and books where mysterious ancient aliens left stuff on Mars, the best of them is of course Total Recall which ironically has more in common with Elite Dangerous than the Alien World book does!

Alien World also mentions The Dark Wheel too:

AW: "The Tale of the Dark Wheel. The copper-skinned Narathnu are noted mythmakers. One of their stories is the legend of the Great Ship, an account of a mysterious race that lives in the Dark Wheel - a galaxy named thus because it is shrouded in black clouds of intergalactic dust and gas...."

Bears no resemblance to The Dark Wheel from Elite whatsoever. It's extremely common for authors to re-use ideas, words, phrases, names they like. I'm sure you know this.

The only way to make anything in AW fit, from what I can see, is the equivalent of making jigsaw pieces fit by using scissors and tape.

Alien World is a fun book with cool art. After 8 years of people trying to shoehorn it into Elite Dangerous and getting nowhere, I think we need to let it rest until something comes up that's unquestioningly a reference, like we can see there are like-for-like lines in TDW and Elite Dangerous, so it's clear TDW was used as a reference.

Right now, I don't think that's happening. Can we just put Alien World to bed?

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

That is all really good references to be honest. They could be clues! nice work Let's examine them:

Sargasso Sea is a commonly known location in contemporary culture, it also emerged into a wider public consciousness in the '60s and '70s - it's not unexpected to find it referenced in all sorts of literature and music because of this:


'Sirens' in anything could be anything, again they're popular in all sorts of space stories - honestly it's probably harder to find sci-fi (especially from the 60s-80s) that doesn't mention something like Sirens. For example there's at least one Episode of Red Dwarf that features literal (psyrens)sirens that suck brains after psychically ticking crews to land, but very few people suggest that as a reference source for Elite Dangerous sirens

The Ivixor B song title is from a 1996 album, it's entirely possible they took it from Alien World, I'm not seeing the connection between that and Elite Dangerous? It looks like they're one of the many bands that are inspired by sci-fi and fantasy It's a cool link to Alien World, but I can't see the link to Elite, could you elaborate that connection?

The Bold section from 42-43, do you mean "The Jelly Babies of Chorepsis VIII"? I can't see even one parallel there with Thargoids? Could you elaborate that one?

Pages 57-60...?

Pages 68-69... I mean that's literally artwork of an ELW with some buildings on it and a big bat-man-monster flying over it. I think this one is a real stretch. Any artwork depicting any settlement on the surface of any world and in piece of artwork could be said to look a bit like a surface settlement from Elite. The description does say the man-bat-monster can only be seen via a camera... but... the page before that has a picture of a barbarian warrior woman wielding a smoke sword riding a horse attacking a loin-cloth wearing muscle man... the images in the book are wild and varied...I don't see any connection to Elite from the 68-69 pic at all, sorry.

72-77 There is a talk of a 'tunnel of swirling light', Good catch! Although again I feel like the frame of reference that particular line is within is really more related to the general attitudes and styles of sci-fi fantasy of that era than a link to Elite Dangerous. This one feels like a stretch to link it to Elite Dangerous. You could more easily make a connection between the Monolith hyperspace tunnel from 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) or the Lightspeed jump from Star Wars (1977) which both preceded and heavily influenced a lot of FTL visuals and ideas, than to this description:


88-94 Honestly I can't comment on this since it's just like the rest of AW, a collection of strange words and aliens, I can't see anything in the pictures of text that makes me think of Elite Dangerous. Can you elaborate on this connection?

Yes, AW does mention Sol. As I said in my post, the connection here is functionally that you're saying "Alien World mentions Sol, Sol is in Elite, and therefore other things in Alien World are in Elite". Earth is mentioned in one of my all time favourite books, Larry Niven's Ringworld, and so is hyperspace travel, and so are mysterious aliens and quests to find stuff, and so are Martians that left relics under the sands of mars. That sort of general vibe is shared across a vast, vast portions of the sci-fi written around that time. The same sorts of ideas come up over and over again. The whole "aliens made the pyramids" was also in the zeitgeist at the time (shamfully) just as crazy fools still think lizard aliens from Saturn are controlling the earth right now, and again just because AW talks about aliens bearing the name Raxxla building the pyramids, doesn't mean the same as those things are related to Elite. That's why there's so many films and books where mysterious ancient aliens left stuff on Mars, the best of them is of course Total Recall which ironically has more in common with Elite Dangerous than the Alien World book does!

Alien World also mentions The Dark Wheel too:

Bears no resemblance to The Dark Wheel from Elite whatsoever. It's extremely common for authors to re-use ideas, words, phrases, names they like. I'm sure you know this.

The only way to make anything in AW fit, from what I can see, is the equivalent of making jigsaw pieces fit by using scissors and tape.

Alien World is a fun book with cool art. After 8 years of people trying to shoehorn it into Elite Dangerous and getting nowhere, I think we need to let it rest until something comes up that's unquestioningly a reference, like we can see there are like-for-like lines in TDW and Elite Dangerous, so it's clear TDW was used as a reference.

Right now, I don't think that's happening. Can we just put Alien World to bed?

Raxxla or at least the consequences of finding it are the glue that cements it all together. You did yourself a disservice by not searching the full phrase "Sargasso Sea of Space" as there are several very well known alternative timelines to that unify Federation and Empire across key science fiction franchises to Larry Niven's Known Space series. The Diso Delines amongst all the other cultural references buried into Elite Dangerous are likely in Elite Dangerous because a time accident that merged the universe of each into the Elite series (there is even more on this concept in "Tour of the Universe"). Regarding the Sirens and their connection to Luyten 205-128, I had also pointed previously that Sirens could be connected to both the Thargoid roar encountered in hyperdictions as well as the weird noises traversing Witchspace. Further there are actually a lot more ammonia gas giants near Sol than in the Pleiades region (though sadly none in Luyten 205-128 itself). This idea about favorable gas giants being bases for Thargoids came both from Elite Dangerous itself and Alien World. We are also told in Elite Dangerous Thargoid codex that we do not know if the Thargoid ships are themselves a separate species or a separate form of Thargoid. The thing is you need Sol for the Holdstock version of Raxxla and we now have fairly indisputable evidence that the Sol connection has been in the game lore of the entire series even if they edited out of the map in the first game because they couldn't do it the justice with technology at the time. Alien World also gives us a bit more of an idea on how exactly an artifact from another species came to be found in Sol. I honestly think whatever Raxxla is along with temporal accidents involving Witchspace (this term actually originated with Holdstock) explains the current state of the Elite Universe.

 

[Aris Tarkus]

Not to nitpick, but I think the term Witchspace originally occurred in the Science Fiction Story The Witches of Karres by James H. Schmitz

 

[SongOfTheVoid]

First problem, Soontill was Thargoid at least per "..And Here The Wheel". Let's not forget that both species seem to be utterly allergic to presence of the other. If Thargoids are behind Raxxla it will repulse Guardian technology. Correspondingly, if Guardian no Thargoid will go near it or it would have been destroyed. Seemingly, humans are the only ones foolhardy enough to touch both, let alone put either of their technology anywhere near the other.

You second problem is you are forgetting a certain 999 year problem in that "...And Here the Wheel" based on ships present happened approximately 3297 which is 999 years AFTER the Raxxla rumor.

Thirdly, even the experts had major problems validating Soontill Relics. Nevermind that Elvira Martuuk thought the Soontill Relics were a scam which is why she requested them to gain access to her facility. So, too, did the people who analyzed the artifacts in the GalNet "Soontill Relics Test Results Queried". This two paragraphs are important:

And the results? Inconclusive. The research team’s results clearly state that no known human technology could have created the relics, yet they do not quite align with known Thargoid materials. Whatever they are, they are indeed very old, with isotopic dating indicating that they could well be tens of thousands of years old.

Jean Molyneaux, a historian from France, Earth, suggests we look back at our own past to determine the home of these relics. “Imagine an alien travelling back two thousand years into mankind’s past. The varied culture, arts and building materials of the Aztecs, Greeks, the Shang dynasty, what have you, the alien could think they were all different species, if that was his way of thinking…”

1) Soontill is a planet and is nothing to do with Raxxla, which doesnt even have a physical form.
2) Raxxla wasnt 'made' by anyone nor has it anything do with the Osir-Raxxla who named themselves after it.
3) Trying to tie Raxxla, Soontill and whatever other random theories people throw around wont be helpful, as they all have as little to do with it as TDW, who never found it.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Not to nitpick, but I think the term Witchspace originally occurred in the Science Fiction Story The Witches of Karres by James H. Schmitz

Well, we also have the crash of Transport Lakon Baker Gamma Sierra Heavy which is suggestive of source material being hundreds of novels, background simulation being also more akin to universe simulation through something like Utopia's Sim-Archive as hinted at in the GalNet "Utopia Plans for Humanity's Extinction". It is notable the crash probably happened from the Wiccan Ware Race that is in First Encounters and became the basis of CMDR Alec Turner's Buckyball Racing Club Cargo manifest from the crash is as follows:


TRANSPORT LAKON BAKER GAMMA SIERRA HEAVY
Committed cargo manifest:
10 units – Heavy Metals
419 units – Historical Novels (Secrets of Simulating Backgrounds)
7 units – Liquor
11 units – Explosives

 

[Louis Calvert]

Raxxla or at least the consequences of finding it are the glue that cements it all together. You did yourself a disservice by not searching the full phrase "Sargasso Sea of Space" as there are several very well known alternative timelines to that unify Federation and Empire across key science fiction franchises to Larry Niven's Known Space series. The Diso Delines amongst all the other cultural references buried into Elite Dangerous are likely in Elite Dangerous because a time accident that merged the universe of each into the Elite series (there is even more on this concept in "Tour of the Universe"). Regarding the Sirens and their connection to Luyten 205-128, I had also pointed previously that Sirens could be connected to both the Thargoid roar encountered in hyperdictions as well as the weird noises traversing Witchspace. Further there are actually a lot more ammonia gas giants near Sol than in the Pleiades region (though sadly none in Luyten 205-128 itself). This idea about favorable gas giants being bases for Thargoids came both from Elite Dangerous itself and Alien World. We are also told in Elite Dangerous Thargoid codex that we do not know if the Thargoid ships are themselves a separate species or a separate form of Thargoid. The thing is you need Sol for the Holdstock version of Raxxla and we now have fairly indisputable evidence that the Sol connection has been in the game lore of the entire series even if they edited out of the map in the first game because they couldn't do it the justice with technology at the time. Alien World also gives us a bit more of an idea on how exactly an artifact from another species came to be found in Sol. I honestly think whatever Raxxla is along with temporal accidents involving Witchspace (this term actually originated with Holdstock) explains the current state of the Elite Universe.

Argh! Well, I think you're actually crazy

The issue with a lot of the stuff you're suggesting are connections between AW and ED - ultimately it doesn't seem to actually help make any more sense of any clue we do have (I.e. the Codex) and doesn't seem to produce any result that can be tested and eliminated or proven. Even if, as you believe, there are connections to AW, how does that actually help? and moreso, why hasn't it helped over the past 8 years of people making those same connections?

Having said that, If you have anything actually testable that you need a hand with I'm genuinely happy to help - I think we're only going to progress by helping each other test ideas - but I really do need some actual things to test out or I'm going to keep saying your ideas on AW connections are crazy

I'm currently heading off to the system @Jorki Rasalas wanted someone else to look at, although I think he's got me on ignore (lol) so could someone he's not ignoring please find out from him what he actually wants tested? He said something about combat there? it's over 2kly from Sol so it's not a quick trip

Once that's done I'm happy to test whatever crazy Talmor Lens idea you've got, so let me know

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

1) Soontill is a planet and is nothing to do with Raxxla, which doesnt even have a physical form.
2) Raxxla wasnt 'made' by anyone nor has it anything do with the Osir-Raxxla who named themselves after it.
3) Trying to tie Raxxla, Soontill and whatever other random theories people throw around wont be helpful, as they all have as little to do with it as TDW, who never found it.

It was though the cover story proposed presumably by The Dark Wheel or The Club as to why they supposedly didn't have access to Raxxla which seems highly suspect given it happens 999 years after Raxxla.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Argh! Well, I think you're actually crazy

The issue with a lot of the stuff you're suggesting are connections between AW and ED - ultimately it doesn't seem to actually help make any more sense of any clue we do have (I.e. the Codex) and doesn't seem to produce any result that can be tested and eliminated or proven. Even if, as you believe, there are connections to AW, how does that actually help? and moreso, why hasn't it helped over the past 8 years of people making those same connections?

Having said that, If you have anything actually testable that you need a hand with I'm genuinely happy to help - I think we're only going to progress by helping each other test ideas - but I really do need some actual things to test out or I'm going to keep saying your ideas on AW connections are crazy

I'm currently heading off to the system @Jorki Rasalas wanted someone else to look at, although I think he's got me on ignore (lol) so could someone he's not ignoring please find out from him what he actually wants tested? He said something about combat there? it's over 2kly from Sol so it's not a quick trip

Once that's done I'm happy to test whatever crazy Talmor Lens idea you've got, so let me know

You're certainly entitled to that opinion yet I'm still the one who has made the most thorough case for unified lore between all the games and books. I'll be back in the Bubble once I have fueled up my carrier for rescue operations and looking for the station referenced in the Brewer Corporation codex. We have clues. It is high time we find something that actually limits scope of the search.

 

[SongOfTheVoid]

It was though the cover story proposed presumably by The Dark Wheel or The Club as to why they supposedly didn't have access to Raxxla which seems highly suspect given it happens 999 years after Raxxla.

None of that counters what I said,if anything you confirm they didnt have access to Raxxla and therefore neither The Club nor TDW have had Raxxla at least TDW are honest enough to even admit publicly they never found it... knowing what something is and having it in your hand are two different things.