See my FD Quotes thread, think I have the source reference there though the source quote may have been deleted over time. It was definitely reported by Drew Wagar, talking about what DB said at the BAFTA disclosure, but I think he only reported this phrasing once.

I like this interpretation! MB said its “a personal journey”; a “Raxxla storyline” would fit this exactly. it may be that FD have made the path to the appropriate knowledge different for each player. That really would be a good puzzle! 😎

This reinforces what I said about it being a really simple solution but full of misdirection and interpretations. It's because there is no ''one solution'' but multiple, that would need multiple peoples skill to decode, like people who look into audio files encription, morse code, symbology, lore relations and such.

But it's a personal journey to connect the dots found by many people. This also explains why TDW quests were removed. They were not personal, and were having the opposite effect to what FD wanted.

I think FD treats this game's narrative like XCOM 2 campaing.
The other factors of the board are playing independent of the players actions, and only react to the player when it either moves against it or takes to long to act.

We found thargoids, maps, interactions but nothing more, we couldnt push that narrative foward and find their origin or anything more. But people still searched.
So the Thargoid narrative reacted comming to us.

Raxxla was chased too fervously, but it was probably for an end game narrative, so it was pushed into hidding even further, reacting to players actions.
Doesnt mean the narrative was necessarily removed, I just think it moved on and advanced.
 
A DW station; Tau Ceti; 2296 and Omphalos. That’s plenty to go on, and at most gives us a solid ‘maybe’…maybe something randomly is just out there, maybe it is not; maybe this something is tied up into the narrative, maybe it is not… but it’s not a definitive zero.
I think ot’s pretty safe to assume that TDW haden’t found Raxxla by 3301.
If it’s separate then it’s like the potential DW station - just out there, and if so, all the references to an ‘outer rim’, ‘silent sing of the spheres’ etc is likewise still relevant.
The toast can be useful. I think it is relatively likely that the Dark Wheel have 'a piece of the map' that we don't have access to. It would actually surprise me if the journey to Raxxla, does not require interaction with TDW.
I suspect that 'how to get there' as opposed to 'where it is', means that we are not just talking about a location. Finding Raxxla requires knowledge. Part of the required knowledge is likely available from TDW. The rest we have to figure out our self. 🤔

Ok y'all make good points as usual :)

So, the Dark Wheel Shinrarta is most likely (definitely) not the Real Dark Wheel - so, assume that's a clue, what do we take from that?

"Oh, they're out there alright. I've never met them, but I know they're out there. Think about how well known the stories are. Now think about how easy it would be for some two-bit band of hucksters to pass themselves off as the Dark Wheel and start trading on their reputation. Doesn't happen, does it? Not for long, anyway. Whenever someone tries to usurp the Dark Wheel name, sooner or later they get quietly shut down. And that's how I know"

- Felicy Farseer, explorer

This is from the DW codex, of course :) Felicity is pretty dang certain that the Real Dark Wheel takes out imitators quickly "Doesn't happen, does it? Not for long, anyway.". Yet at the time of the Codex (3304) the Shinrarta Dark Wheel has been operating with impunity for 4 years, and has been for another 4 years since.

What do we make of this?



I personally suspect that the mission description “Place that is not a place, door that is also the key” was deemed a little too revealing
Raxxla was chased too fervously, but it was probably for an end game narrative, so it was pushed into hidding even further, reacting to players actions.
Doesnt mean the narrative was necessarily removed, I just think it moved on and advanced.
Agreed on both.

"Place that is not a place, door that is also the key" I agree with Jorki that this is the same clues as: "the Omphalos Rift, described as a gateway or tunnel through which parallel universes can be accessed. " from the codex. And as others have said, it's likely that the "silent song of the spheres" might be the same clues as the mention of "Siren of the deepest void". Which, if not helpful in the slightest, does lean towards a retooling of the clues rather than a deletion of the path as Maidor suggests.
 
I'm sure I remember reading in this thread "SOMEWHERE" that F Dev confirmed the missions were not related to the stories and were removed to avoid confusion. That could of all been complete - it might of been meant for one single who triggered them and went live by mistake.
I believe TDW and Raxxla are two separate things in game. The toast is merely from the old Dark Wheel the generation that had an idea where it was or something and that was used as the clue to us.

We have to assume that the codex information it trye to form and that there is a reason for ir, or we all migth aswell stop looking now.

TDW station may have more mentions of Raxxla, but i dont think that is the path to get to it. I agree that TDW station will just be massive lore points and data points.

In all the Fdev comments on Raxxla, they have said many things that I believe where indeed clues, even though they said they wont give any.

Things like, "it has to be a tiny bit obvious" "its a journey everyone has to take" "anyone can find it, and more than once"
They also say the system it is in was bonged and Raxxla not found, i'm not 100% sure of the wording on that, but if it was the system it "IS" in was visited this should mean Raxxla itself does not move systems, as that would become "WAS in" OFC that's also not 100% but with all the clouds around it i believe we also have to assume that the wording F Dev use for each answer is very carefully selected.

Those lines just affirm "IMO" that the toast is a path "journey" of us OR Raxxla itself, that we have to find - and to stop over thinking it.

IF you want to test the potentially false Dark Wheel in Shinraz, we should help the opposing factions and make it small enough for the Real DW to take out.
Easier said than done, I know especially with its location.

But Also, What do i Know hahah @Jorki Rasalas
 
IF you want to test the potentially false Dark Wheel in Shinraz, we should help the opposing factions and make it small enough for the Real DW to take out.
Easier said than done, I know especially with its location.
I've been thinking that exact thing!!

See there's been this big movement for years by a group that have been trying to expand the Shinrarta Dark Wheel to other systems. But I've been thinking about what Felicity said, and I've been thinking about the idea that the Real Dark Wheel tests people covertly....

Codex: "It is futile to attempt to contact the Dark Wheel on one's own initiative, however - it is always they who initiate contact, initially in disguise, revealing their true identity only once a suitable test of courage and skill has been discreetly administered, and passed."

What if the 'test' (or part of it) is to take out the imposters, not help them.
 
This is from the DW codex, of course :) Felicity is pretty dang certain that the Real Dark Wheel takes out imitators quickly "Doesn't happen, does it? Not for long, anyway.". Yet at the time of the Codex (3304) the Shinrarta Dark Wheel has been operating with impunity for 4 years, and has been for another 4 years since.

What do we make of this?
It also contradicts other parts of the codex.

"Those who believe in the existence of the Dark Wheel consider it to be a continuous and
clandestine organisation, operating since the very earliest days of interstellar travel.
According to the lore, only a handful of the bravest and most competent pilots of each
generation are honoured with an invitation to join the group. It is futile to attempt to
contact the Dark Wheel on one's own initiative, however - it is always they who initiate
contact, initially in disguise, revealing their true identity only once a suitable test of

courage and skill has been discreetly administered, and passed."


If the Shinraz group is real half the codex can be deleted.
 
FD confirmed the DW just removed. They didn’t specify they’re relevance to Raxxla or anything else only that they were ’removed’. I know sorry, because I was the one who obtained that information from FD - data is in this thread.

FD likewise confirmed the Trinkets were linked to the missions, again FD reiterated now removed (no reason given nor context) expect the Trinkets were linked to that ‘story’, but left in situ as at most a ‘curiosity’; FD then stated it ‘maybe’ turned back on again in the future.

So DW / Trinkets mission not confirmed linked sorry.

The link is attributed contextually because in the mission texts it utilises descriptions used in the Holdstock novel to describe Raxxla.

There were another 2 aspects linking it to John Milton -IMO; the silent song of the spheres, the outer rim, there were also various phrasings of the text which sound like they were written by a fan of Milton.

So no no direct references to Raxxla. But no definitive confirmation they were not.
 
Last edited:
FD confirmed the DW just removed. They didn’t specify they’re relevance to Raxxla or anything else only that they were ’removed’. I know sorry, because I was the one who obtained that information from FD - data is in this thread.

FD likewise confirmed the Trinkets were linked to the missions, again FD reiterated now removed (no reason given nor context) expect the Trinkets were linked to that ‘story’, but left in situ as at most a ‘curiosity’; FD then stated it ‘maybe’ turned back on again in the future.

So DW / Trinkets mission not confirmed linked sorry.

The link is attributed contextually because in the mission texts it utilises descriptions used in the Holdstock novel to describe Raxxla.

There were another 2 aspects linking it to John Milton, the silent song of the spheres, the outer rim, there were also various phrasings of the text which sound like they were written by a fan of Milton.

So no no direct references to Raxxla. But no definitive confirmation they were not.

Thank you mate, Sorry i knew i read something but couldn't remember when or by who regarding the missions to search back.

@Louis Calvert
"Whenever someone tries to usurp the Dark Wheel name, sooner or later they get quietly shut down. And that's how I know"

You cannot quietly shutdown a multisystem faction, so maybe that's why they are still there.
 
You cannot quietly shutdown a multisystem faction, so maybe that's why they are still there.
They are that now - but in 3300 they were only in Shinrarta as a very small minor faction.

They only reason they are as big as they are now is that many people (myself included) allied with them and did crap tons of missions for them, and as I said, there's a group who have been actively working for years to spread the Shinrarta Dark Wheel to other systems.
 
The question still stands. How do we reconcile the fact that Felicity clearly says she knows the Dark Wheel shut down imitators, and yet most people here seem to agree that the Shinrarta Dark Wheel (SDW) are imitators, and yet haven't been shut down.

Assume that's deliberate (because the codex was released after SDW grew), and therefore, surely, this is actually a pretty massive hint at something, right?
 
The question still stands. How do we reconcile the fact that Felicity clearly says she knows the Dark Wheel shut down imitators, and yet most people here seem to agree that the Shinrarta Dark Wheel (SDW) are imitators, and yet haven't been shut down.

Assume that's deliberate (because the codex was released after SDW grew), and therefore, surely, this is actually a pretty massive hint at something, right?
Yea I mean I would agree, could well just be lazy story from F Dev,
If it is the real DW and we have been growing it for 8 years and all that has happened is 6 "now deleted" missions - I say poor show lol

I might investigate missions around Shinraz to see if there are any counter DW missions, such as assassinate missions. I would feel bad on the guys that spent 4 years building it up though lol
I'm kinda hoping someone somewhere is going to organise a counter strike on the goids cause the screen shots would be epic :D
 
I'm sure I remember reading in this thread "SOMEWHERE" that F Dev confirmed the missions were not related to the stories and were removed to avoid confusion. That could of all been complete - it might of been meant for one single who triggered them and went live by mistake.
I believe TDW and Raxxla are two separate things in game. The toast is merely from the old Dark Wheel the generation that had an idea where it was or something and that was used as the clue to us.

We have to assume that the codex information it trye to form and that there is a reason for ir, or we all migth aswell stop looking now.

TDW station may have more mentions of Raxxla, but i dont think that is the path to get to it. I agree that TDW station will just be massive lore points and data points.

In all the Fdev comments on Raxxla, they have said many things that I believe where indeed clues, even though they said they wont give any.

Things like, "it has to be a tiny bit obvious" "its a journey everyone has to take" "anyone can find it, and more than once"
They also say the system it is in was bonged and Raxxla not found, i'm not 100% sure of the wording on that, but if it was the system it "IS" in was visited this should mean Raxxla itself does not move systems, as that would become "WAS in" OFC that's also not 100% but with all the clouds around it i believe we also have to assume that the wording F Dev use for each answer is very carefully selected.

Those lines just affirm "IMO" that the toast is a path "journey" of us OR Raxxla itself, that we have to find - and to stop over thinking it.

IF you want to test the potentially false Dark Wheel in Shinraz, we should help the opposing factions and make it small enough for the Real DW to take out.
Easier said than done, I know especially with its location.

But Also, What do i Know hahah @Jorki Rasalas

I put any potentially useful statement that I find by FD in my FD Quotes thread, linked in my signature. You would find it an interesting read.

Of course, it is entirely possible that TDW in ED is itself a huge red herring! Only there to provide a lore nod back to Holdstock’s novella with the 1984 game and an in-game link for the couple of “official ED novels” that used the concept (IIRC only Reclamation, Premonition, & And Here The Wheel). @Rochester: That would explain those comments by FD Support, and maybe they removed it because it is a red herring and was distracting too many players from the real storylines; I know I wasted a lot of time surface mapping and Mk1 Eyeball scanning the vicinity of 8th moon of many GG!

@Virtual Yoda: the long-removed E/F missions were counter-DW! The mission giver was Pilots Federation and were against TDW ships-read the mission descriptions that Macros has on the OP. I’ve not seen anything similar since their removal.
But I think it could be worthwhile people trying Passenger Missions to exotic places, especially any to the Triple Black Hole tourist beacon in HIP 63835; you might just find your passenger has some information....and you can also investigate the “comms installation” named Josie Rosa orbiting the planet also named “Josie Rosa” there.
 
Last edited:
@Virtual Yoda: the long-removed E/F missions were counter-DW! The mission giver was Pilots Federation and were against TDW ships-read the mission descriptions that Macros has on the OP. I’ve not seen anything similar since their removal.
Exactly my point. I really freaking wish you weren't ignoring me.
....and you can also investigate the “comms installation” named Josie Rosa orbiting the planet also named “Josie Rosa” there.
I REALLY freaking wish you weren't ignore me. I literally have done that for you, you... grrrrrrrrrrrrr

Yea I mean I would agree, could well just be lazy story from F Dev,
If it is the real DW and we have been growing it for 8 years and all that has happened is 6 "now deleted" missions - I say poor show lol
I really don't think they'd have gone to the effort of inserting the DW and Raxxla Codex entries if they were nothing. They could more easily and "lazily" have simply not put them in. I think we need to put to bed the idea that Fdev 'did it bad' and assume that these are clues we're meant to consider.

Occams Razor in this case is, as we've been discussing these last few days, that we do have all the clues we're going to get at this stage, we're just not reading them correctly yet.
 
@Virtual Yoda: the long-removed E/F missions were counter-DW! The mission giver was Pilots Federation and were against TDW ships-read the mission descriptions that Macros has on the OP. I’ve not seen anything similar since their removal.
That was my point mate, to look for other against missions. maybe we were always meant to counter and destroy them. so to speak.

Occams Razor in this ca is, as we've been discussing these last few days, that we do have all the clues we're going to get at this stage, we're just not reading them correctly yet.

Yep, and ofc we keep combining TDW and Raxxla issues lol, maybe they are linked, or maybe were just making it harder :D
 
@Virtual Yoda I'm up for doing anti Shinrarta Dark Wheel (SDW) missions...though may have to take a backseat to fighting Thargoids.

I'm a total noob when it comes to the BGS stuff though. Do we take any mission that's against the SDW, or is there specific missions to look for, etc?
 
@Virtual Yoda I'm up for doing anti Shinrarta Dark Wheel (SDW) missions...though may have to take a backseat to fighting Thargoids.

I'm a total noob when it comes to the BGS stuff though. Do we take any mission that's against the SDW, or is there specific missions to look for, etc?
Its a case of replacing them i think which as they are on only 30% influence possibly wouldn't be too hard for a PP group.

O7
 
Well, after analyzing a lot of sounds, I am now definitely convinced that the line in the toast about the siren and the whisperer speaks of a black hole or pulsar. Here's the sound of a pulsar cleared of noise

Audio Link
Awesome work! that's incredibly creepy! Looking forward to seeing where this goes :) If you need a hand let me know, I can record sounds easily enough, so if you need someone to record more pulars, etc.
 
Top Bottom