The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[dsmart]

To be fair he's only out by 9 months, Chris Roberts said SC was coming out in 2014 so Derek is less than half as wrong as the savior of PC gaming.

Everywhere I see that handle, I slap and block. Automatically. Which is why I don't see any of their crap and don't have to respond to it. Thanks for quoting it so I can block him.

The fact is that, in early Q4/15, they barely had enough money to make it through six months. This was confirmed by multiple sources, including an insider source with first hand knowledge of it.

What did they do? In late Q4/15, they literally pulled a rabbit out of a hat by releasing the first PU 2.0 in a shoddy and hurried manner because up until that time, all they had was the rubbish Arena Commander.

They knew it wasn't ready. The devs knew it wasn't ready. They released it anyway. And made quite a bit of money of it.

The result is in the funding chart (below) and the real-time funding spreadsheet

I based my predictions on information that was available to be at the time. That's how analysts operate. When things change, you adjust accordingly. To wit. If they didn't need the money, why are they still raising money by any/all means necessary? Who here thinks that a game that is 18 months late, doesn't need additional funding? It won't need additional funding if it wasn't mismanaged to the point it being late - and pure and utter crap five years and $114 million later.

 

[Asp Explorer]

If only CR had said Yes! to Rare Fish Trader guy all those years ago

 

[Zyll Goliat]

I'd be willing to believe that... *if* we'd seen anything of Squadron 42 since the "reveal" trailer of doom back at Citizencon 2015.... But there has been nary a peep from that project ever since. Not one new screenshot. Not one new update on progress aside from vague messages of reassurance from the likes of Lesnick that "everything is on-time and a-okay".

If SQ42 is now the project that CiG are currently focusing on, then why all the need for the secrecy? I mean, at least give the people backing your game more than just a few vague messages every couple of months about what's going on. Show them *something* of substance that can get the people some sense of where the project is currently.

Which is why them snubbing E3 seems even *more* of a strange decision, doubly so now that we know that several of the big publishers and developers are on the verge of releasing games that are *directly* competing with the genre niche that CiG are hoping to fill with Squadron 42 (and later, Star Citizen.)

Here is the thing,I strongly believe that CIG do focusing their work on SQ42 but I also realizing that CIG is not open development,I mean not if you want to know really important thing about the game but if you want to know what's Ben Lesnick had for lunch there you go,just watch latest AoV...
So far the FACT was that CIG earning their money when they are building a game(opposite from normal) and releasing "dreams" and "fairy tales" in their shows but from other side the actual core game-play is obviously lacking by all means,because of that I tend to believe that CIG will avoid as much as they can any further close up info about the SQ42 as they realizing that they are not reaching the game standards that will satisfy all their backers that still believe in the game as it was pitched years back.As time passing there will be more&more citizens who will wake up from their "dreams",until that CIG only hope is to make sure to build the bare minimum of the game and to avoid all possible legal charges.....

 

[lysan]

Everywhere I see that handle, I slap and block. Automatically. Which is why I don't see any of their crap and don't have to respond to it. Thanks for quoting it so I can block him.

The fact is that, in early Q4/15, they barely had enough money to make it through six months. This was confirmed by multiple sources, including an insider source with first hand knowledge of it.

What did they do? In late Q4/15, they literally pulled a rabbit out of a hat by releasing the first PU 2.0 in a shoddy and hurried manner because up until that time, all they had was the rubbish Arena Commander.

They knew it wasn't ready. The devs knew it wasn't ready. They released it anyway. And made quite a bit of money of it.

The result is in the funding chart (below) and the real-time funding spreadsheet

http://i.imgur.com/aVYxfZB.png

I based my predictions on information that was available to be at the time. That's how analysts operate. When things change, you adjust accordingly. To wit. If they didn't need the money, why are they still raising money by any/all means necessary? Who here thinks that a game that is 18 months late, doesn't need additional funding? It won't need additional funding if it wasn't mismanaged to the point it being late - and pure and utter crap five years and $114 million later.

If they are running out of funds we will see it soon (TM), no one can keep 300+ developers on the pay roll including rent, electrical bills etc. indefinitely without a steady income. etc.

I've been contacted by 3 SC backers so far regarding how to get a refund, and I've directed them to the DS blog. told them to look beyond the trolling part and go for the facts and use it to get out. In fact I think its in SC best interest to refund people who are not happy with the project, and just let them go without all the fuzz. It really doesn't matter if people should have stayed away or not, CR did say 3 years was the Point of no return mark, and I agree with that. CIG are now way beyond that mark and therefor a refund should be given to those who would like it. If CIG stall SQ42 again this year they will miss one more mile stone, and no excuses in the world will fix that.

CoD is coming out, ME is one its way and NMS, ED, etc. ED will probably hit PS4 next year, that is a 30 - 40 million potential player market, add XB and SC is just another space game among many.

CIG need good press, they need people to be interested, if you're the kardashians of a B rated gaming show doesn't really count.

I do not want SC to fail, however to me the CIG truck is stuck in a muddy road, and help is far far away.

 

[DeathsKnell]

Thanks for the condescending reply. 10/10 for that, honestly.

Anyway, I already understood that.

So why is it an issue *now* rather than any of the other times that CiG have had big events where backers money was spent on all the minute details and payments needed to present at E3 and the like? I didn't seem to see the same sort of, er, "explanations" then, so why now all of a sudden?

Please, take your time with your answer.

I guess it was a bit condescending, I apologize, sorry.

You are right that they have gone to other shows along the way. Why is this one different ?

As I stated earlier, because it's crunch time for SQ42 if it expects to be released this year..

I just saw this and it pretty much backs up what I have stated before. Besides the fact that last years PC gaming show was pretty much was considered a disaster as far as gaming shows go.

Quote: A representative for Cloud Imperium tells us that Roberts sent PC Gamer his regrets just a few weeks ago, saying that his schedule won't allow for a trip to Los Angeles. In fact, the studio is skipping E3 entirely.Instead, the spokesperson tells us that Roberts will be devoting all his efforts to work on Squadron 42 at his studio in England. The rep added that the studio will have something to show at Gamescom in August.
Source:http://www.polygon.com/2016/5/30/11720714/what-to-expect-from-the-pc-gaming-show

 

[Stigbob]

I gave subnautica's trello page as an example (IMO) of really good open development here about a week ago and pointed everyone at the battery charging station which was being worked on then. It's now been completed and is in the game and working (I tested it today).

Here's the trello page : https://trello.com/b/yxoJrFgP/subnautica-development

Battery charging station is top item forth column, you can see the dev updates when the tasks were completed.




(@monk I know you follow subnautica the power cell charger is also in so the cyclops is now easily recharged)

 

[ianw]

Has there been any indication from Chris that SQ42 is actually still in the pipeline for release this year?

I thought the last time he mentioned it was the BBC thing - when he was uncharacteristically cautious and not really optimistic about making this year.

Has that changed or been revised officially or is everyone still working off that with their expectations for something this year?

 

[Clawhammer]

I gave subnautica's trello page as an example (IMO) of really good open development here about a week ago and pointed everyone at the battery charging station which was being worked on then. It's now been completed and is in the game and working (I tested it today).

Here's the trello page : https://trello.com/b/yxoJrFgP/subnautica-development

Battery charging station is top item forth column, you can see the dev updates when the tasks were completed.

(@monk I know you follow subnautica the power cell charger is also in so the cyclops is now easily recharged)

And if i remember right, i explained to you a week ago why you can not compare these two projects. Again, SC is way much bigger. Small games are much easier to produce.

Or did these guys had to challange with complex technics like double precision? Singleplayer and multiplayer? Large 64bit worlds? The instance system and so on...

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

I guess it was a bit condescending, I apologize, sorry.

You are right that they have gone to other shows along the way. Why is this one different ?

As I stated earlier, because it's crunch time for SQ42 if it expects to be released this year..

I just saw this and it pretty much backs up what I have stated before. Besides the fact that last years PC gaming show was pretty much was considered a disaster as far as gaming shows go.

Just saw this:

Quote: A representative for Cloud Imperium tells us that Roberts sent PC Gamer his regrets just a few weeks ago, saying that his schedule won't allow for a trip to Los Angeles. In fact, the studio is skipping E3 entirely.Instead, the spokesperson tells us that Roberts will be devoting all his efforts to work on Squadron 42 at his studio in England. The rep added that the studio will have something to show at Gamescom in August.
Source:http://www.polygon.com/2016/5/30/11720714/what-to-expect-from-the-pc-gaming-show

Saw that "quote" on the day *after* this news broke. It's nothing new.

And that doesn't at all answer the reason *why* they didn't mention this on the RSI website, or anywhere else for that matter, just to give people notice that this change had been made, especially since as recently as March, they were saying how they were looking forward to E3.

 

[danjlynch1978]

And if i remember right, i explained to you a week ago why you can not compare these two projects. Again, SC is way much bigger. Small games are much easier to produce.

Or did these guys had to challange with complex technics like double precision? Singleplayer and multiplayer? Large 64bit worlds? The instance system and so on...

Strawman argument, size of the project is largely irrelevant. I believe the mention of Subnautica was to demonstrate actual openness vs "the most open development ever"...

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

And if i remember right, i explained to you a week ago why you can not compare these two projects. Again, SC is way much bigger. Small games are much easier to produce.

Or did these guys had to challange with complex technics like double precision? Singleplayer and multiplayer? Large 64bit worlds? The instance system and so on...

Hmm? So let me get this straight....

It's *not* okay to compare the development cycle of Star Citizen when up against other titles because they are not on the same sort of scale as it is. Yet, it's perfectly *ok* to compare SC with all the big titles and other MMO's out there with all the stuff that, quite frankly, we only have their *word* on for how it will be "so much better" than the competition.

Because I think the point that Stigbob is making is that, regardless of the size of the project/development, it should always be handled in a professional and timely manor.

So whilst the Subnautica folks can present themselves openly and honestly, apparently delivering on the stuff they have promised, it's rather telling just how "not" open CiG often are with what they are doing, whilst they have consistently struggled to make any of the dates and promises they've set out themselves to make.

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Has there been any indication from Chris that SQ42 is actually still in the pipeline for release this year?

I thought the last time he mentioned it was the BBC thing - when he was uncharacteristically cautious and not really optimistic about making this year.

Has that changed or been revised officially or is everyone still working off that with their expectations for something this year?

There has been not a peep of any sort of news about Squadron 42 this year, apart from that BBC thing, which again we must remember, didn't show a single *live* or in-game demonstration of how things would work in either SC or SQ42.

 

[milligna]

Or did these guys had to challange with complex technics like double precision? Singleplayer and multiplayer? Large 64bit worlds? The instance system and so on...

None of those are remotely as challenging as having to finish a game with Chris Roberts and his micromanaging mood swings in charge. The Subnautica team isn't so handicapped, so they are able to actually get on with the business of game development instead of merely talking about game development for years.

 

[danjlynch1978]

There has been not a peep of any sort of news about Squadron 42 this year, apart from that BBC thing, which again we must remember, didn't show a single *live* or in-game demonstration of how things would work in either SC or SQ42.

Where, in fact, the BBC was not even shown any footage of the game behind closed doors (where they could at least say "we've seen it, but can't talk about it")... Same for the PC Gamer visit.

Makes you wonder how backers have supposedly visited the studio and been shown stuff that was denied to the objective (BY ROYAL MANDATE) reporting of the BBC...

 

[lysan]

Was watching some resent "combat" videos from SC, oh boy they still have that arrow pointing at the opponent LOL.
At least its not red anymore.

 

[GordFreeman]

WEll one is criticizing a game the other is calling someone names.

Once of these is contrary to forum rules, the other isn't.

If we can avoid calling each other names I think the thread will benefit because of it.

Discussion is good, nobody wants it to be one-sided, just cut the digs out and this could be a half-decent thread again.

This thread is full of long-time posters not only criticizing the game, but also calling people at CIG and it's community names. That is also against forum rules, or at least the rules posted at the beginning of the SC threads. If something is out of bounds in regards to yourself, then it’s also out of bounds in regards to a developer, manager, and yes, even a CEO. If it’s wrong for someone to mock you, then it’s wrong for you to mock Chris Roberts. Most people here look the other way when that happens, and then they pull out the pitchforks when someone’s called a hater.

“But I’m a backer!” they say. “I truly want the game to succeed!” they cry. Saying that you (generally speaking, not you personally) actually care about the game seems pretty disingenuous in my books when you spend years mocking the development with a winking smiley face at the end of your statements. Spending money on a product does not magically prevent you from attacking it later on. Good luck convincing people that you want a project to succeed when you enjoy mocking it.

When has this thread ever been half-decent? ‘Digs’ and ‘personal attacks’ have always been par for the course.

Now you are acting like a typical SC"cultist",like this they managed to push-back many ppl.

The zealotous SC white knights were there long before Goons started having fun by trolling them.

Ohh yeah that's for sure if anything Roberts is known as someone who can always dodge the bullet.....

see pic. below

Wipe your mouth, you're foaming looks Dangerous!

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Difficult to answer without access to their engine fork. But who knows how they hacked this stuffcarefull crafted double precision into CE.

What really make me sick is if you remember how ClownRoberts was mocking the EA and other big company's in a way how they threat us-gamers?¿Dear lord....just look at them now....a bunch of CLOWNS.....

Spoiler

....Roberts Circus Industries that's how they suppose to call themselves.........

Please, tell me again how this community only badgers the management, as if being in management is a good excuse for being attacked personally.
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A zealot's mind works in mysterious ways....

super toxic cult-like community, the thing you want most in an online game

Good thing CR pledged to treat us backers with respect, as if we were the publishers.

Spoiler

One word comes to mind, CULT

Spoiler

Hmmm or maybe just something like this.....

Spoiler

I will buy new ships and join the cult of SC if this is true.

Spoiler

I don't feel it's worth discussing this whole topic with the SC Defense Force, as it were.

You sound like a nice SC cultist, DS or not he is not the problem around here. So gear down buddy, and let us talk about CIG and the SC/SQ42 project.

My kudos goes to the @Lesabre the man who still keep up fighting it hard on the SC forum just with the power of his words even if he was been surrounded by multiple x"bloodthristy" "cult members............

He is a toxic shill, paid or not by CIG he was only in the ED forum to advertise SC.

Oopsie - Luke said it's a cult.

P.S. Mr. Nowak, tireless promoter of a different company's space game the FD forums, have you bought ED Horizons? It is the least you could do for FD this holiday season, in payment for all the shilling you do here for SC/CIG.

The disciples of Robertology have no shame and hence are incapable of feeling embarrassed by their forum antics.

You're shilling (badly).

Look at daddy, see daddy is right, do as daddy.

Seams ok to me.

It's incredible when all a company needs to do is to throw a "subject to change" on anything they sell and when your wine tastes like monkey , they have a horde of white knights defending them because of those three words.

Exactly...In reality it's totally opposite,the propaganda machinery of the CIG and their CULT of the "immortals" are spreading lies and fear to the anyone that dare to speak their mind against SC for all these years..Well seems that now things finally turning around...

 

[Electrofreak]

Doesn't seem to stop them and every other developer. I reckon 80% of what we see at those shows is smoke & mirrors. Whatever happened to that helmet flip that Roberts demonstrated at Pax East (was it?) a couple of years ago where the hangar launched straight out into space? Or that landing into an area full of NPCs doing things? Why haven't we seen much of those since? There is a significant difference between something ready to be demonstrated at a show and something ready to go out onto players hard drives.

The helmet flip was in early hangar builds where you had to don your helmet to access certain menus. Playerbase didn't like having to find a helmet to open a menu so it got dropped and the players spawned into hangar with the helmet already on.

Planetary landing was going to be automated / "on rails" but that was scrapped in favor of landing manually onto procedurally generated planets, a feature still being developed.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

This thread is full of long-time posters not only criticizing the game, but also calling people at CIG and it's community names. That is also against forum rules, or at least the rules posted at the beginning of the SC threads. If something is out of bounds in regards to yourself, then it’s also out of bounds in regards to a developer, manager, and yes, even a CEO. If it’s wrong for someone to mock you, then it’s wrong for you to mock Chris Roberts. Most people here look the other way when that happens, and then they pull out the pitchforks when someone’s called a hater.

“But I’m a backer!” they say. “I truly want the game to succeed!” they cry. Saying that you (generally speaking, not you personally) actually care about the game seems pretty disingenuous in my books when you spend years mocking the development with a winking smiley face at the end of your statements. Spending money on a product does not magically prevent you from attacking it later on. Good luck convincing people that you want a project to succeed when you enjoy mocking it.

When has this thread ever been half-decent? ‘Digs’ and ‘personal attacks’ have always been par for the course.








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Please, tell me again how this community only badgers the management, as if being in management is a good excuse for being attacked personally.
------------------------------------------------

Wow, that's quite the list of grievances you logged there mate.

So anyway, can we talk about Star Citizen, or do you want to continue to distract the thread with meaningless whataboutery?

Also, let me just add that you, in posting that rather heated and no doubt emotional reply, have just confirmed many of the very things some of those posters you've quoted say about the people who *really* back Star Citizen to the hilt, "white knight" armour and all.

Hilarious.

 

[Electrofreak]

Yeah, honestly I've been sticking my head in here to see if there's any misinformation I can address, seeing purely drama or discussion about the legality of chargebacks, and going to find something else to do. I've conquered several alien empires in Stellaris because of this thread, so there's that.

 

[ianw]

This thread is full of long-time posters not only criticizing the game, but also calling people at CIG and it's community names. That is also against forum rules, or at least the rules posted at the beginning of the SC threads. If something is out of bounds in regards to yourself, then it’s also out of bounds in regards to a developer, manager, and yes, even a CEO. If it’s wrong for someone to mock you, then it’s wrong for you to mock Chris Roberts. Most people here look the other way when that happens, and then they pull out the pitchforks when someone’s called a hater.

“But I’m a backer!” they say. “I truly want the game to succeed!” they cry. Saying that you (generally speaking, not you personally) actually care about the game seems pretty disingenuous in my books when you spend years mocking the development with a winking smiley face at the end of your statements. Spending money on a product does not magically prevent you from attacking it later on. Good luck convincing people that you want a project to succeed when you enjoy mocking it.

When has this thread ever been half-decent? ‘Digs’ and ‘personal attacks’ have always been par for the course.

Please, tell me again how this community only badgers the management, as if being in management is a good excuse for being attacked personally.
------------------------------------------------

I don't see how making fun of a third party would would seen in the same light as making fun of someone posting in this thread - as far as I can see CR doesn't do that.

Originally Posted by ianw
Oopsie - Luke said it's a cult.

And regarding my comment - I was referring to where MH (aka Luke) was reporting as saying this;

People are really excited for this game, and it's interesting because people either have no idea what it is at all or they're ultra-passionate fans. There's no middle ground. That's the very definition of a cult following.

If you can find anywhere I've called SC supporters a cult feel free to post it (to save you time I haven't).

And the quote from MH is right here if you want to check - http://www.pcworld.com/article/3069...h-how-far-weve-come-since-wing-commander.html

 

[Zyll Goliat]

This thread is full of long-time posters not only criticizing the game, but also calling people at CIG and it's community names. That is also against forum rules, or at least the rules posted at the beginning of the SC threads. If something is out of bounds in regards to yourself, then it’s also out of bounds in regards to a developer, manager, and yes, even a CEO. If it’s wrong for someone to mock you, then it’s wrong for you to mock Chris Roberts. Most people here look the other way when that happens, and then they pull out the pitchforks when someone’s called a hater.

“But I’m a backer!” they say. “I truly want the game to succeed!” they cry. Saying that you (generally speaking, not you personally) actually care about the game seems pretty disingenuous in my books when you spend years mocking the development with a winking smiley face at the end of your statements. Spending money on a product does not magically prevent you from attacking it later on. Good luck convincing people that you want a project to succeed when you enjoy mocking it.

When has this thread ever been half-decent? ‘Digs’ and ‘personal attacks’ have always been par for the course.-

Nice finds...I almost want to give you rep. for the efforts....Look most of the quotes are truth some of them are just funny but all of them are harmless comparing with what the "Occult Factory" is making on the dark side of the moon....ohh there you go one more line for your "book of quotes"...